Writing Deconstructing the 'Isekai' genre and your personal opinions

[Ral]

I'm looking into the intriguing aspects and concepts, the pitfalls, cliches, tropes, stereotypes, twists of the isekai genre and isekai plot devices. And the brilliant usage of these.
Express your own views and opinions of these ^, and feel free to have discussions. It's better if you state a specific aspect of an isekai story and elaborate it fully, but it is up to you on how you will state it. I'm also just very curious otherwise.

Considering your definition of isekai, then there is actually so much about it.

You can consider really old stories especially ones before transportation becomes reasonable to be isekai stories. The Odyssey, for example. In those times, what is beyond the sea is literally a different world to people back then; that is why these stories involve people sailing into the sea and arriving on mysterious magical worlds. These includes many mythological stories by the way. Other stories of this type includes Gulliver's Travels and Dinotopia.

The same thing happens with Science Fiction. We travel the vast space and discover alien lifeforms and worlds. The Barsoom series for example. When we become more knowledgeable about space, stories about aliens on Mars become rare(the only recent one I know was that uncanny film Mars Needs Moms). Other stories in this category include the Mass Effect franchise and a lot of those 1980s TV series about bunch of people sent into outer space.

Since you have included Spirited Away which is set in the spirit world, then you can include Dante's Inferno which is set in Hell.

The isekai genre seems to be a very common thing for video game movies. Mortal Combat (1995) does that, Sonic the Hedgehog movie does that. Even the first video game move Super Mario Bros. does that. Would the upcoming reboot, Super Marion Bros.: The Movie, do the same?

In a sense, Isekai and its deconstruction existed long before the term Isekai exist and before these typical Isekai stories become mainstream. It just that, these old isekai stories doesn't really receive much attention.

I tried throwing a little drama into my harem wish-fulfillment isekai. Ended up alienating a lot of my audience, resulting in quite the low score and growth in views.

Should've just stuck with the smart, overpowered MC trope that people love.

This really depends on what drama you have inserted. Also, dramas in wish-fulfillment isekai stories tends to be really bad and contrived.

There are no intelligent deconstructions of the isekai genre. All isekai have fallen into the same uninspired tropes whether the authors realizes it or not. Breaking the 4th wall and acknowledging that yes the MC has been killed by a truck haha isn't deconstruction the genre nor is making the MC a cool guy or straight up suicidal. Seeing as the only way people can 'subvert' or 'deconstruct' this genre by adding small drama or a threat that gets solved within 2 chapters shows how lousy this genre as become. Stories I read that I thought were isekai were actually just regular fantasy, and good fantasy at that.

Considering that the original poster uses isekai as a catch-all term including such stories as Alice in Wonderland, Monsters Inc. and Coco.

I could also add to the list some of the stories that I really liked: Digimon series, Yellow Submarine, Coraline, Vision of Escaflone, Peter Pan, The Twelve Kingdoms and Infinity Train.

Isekai is kinda broad really. It is just defined by a concept. It is similar to "talking animals" stories in that sense.

What have become stale, and what you seem to have described, are the Light Novel Isekais and the webnovel author that just copy the lighnovel's formulas. The ones that have are adapted into Anime are specially lacking in variety. They are mainly just those killed (by Truck-kun) and reincarnated into or transported into game-like world isekais. There are more to this trope than this considering all the isekai out there.

Also, acknowledging the tropes in the story that endangers one's suspension of disbelief is called Lampshade Hanging. Adding drama isn't subversion or deconstruction. Subversion is when the story leads you to believe a certain trope is going to happen but doesn't. Deconstruction is taking apart a trope to examine and explore it.

My favorite though is Looney Toons. It wasn't Looney "Tunes". It was Loony "Toons". Tunes doesn't even make sense and I don't get how no one sees the problem with this. It was Toons. Not Tunes. How can no one see the problem?

It is Looney Tunes (and its sister Merrie Melodies). It was inspired by Disney's Silly Symphonies.

And Tunes make sense. Looney is just a synonym for Silly, while Tunes is just a synonym for music. Looney Tunes essentially just means silly music.

And here is a poster for Looney Tunes:

 

[Wohendum-Bluu]

Considering your definition of isekai, then there is actually so much about it.

You can consider really old stories especially ones before transportation becomes reasonable to be isekai stories. The Odyssey, for example. In those times, what is beyond the sea is literally a different world to people back then; that is why these stories involve people sailing into the sea and arriving on mysterious magical worlds. These includes many mythological stories by the way. Other stories of this type includes Gulliver's Travels and Dinotopia.

The same thing happens with Science Fiction. We travel the vast space and discover alien lifeforms and worlds. The Barsoom series for example. Again, when we become more knowledgeable about space, stories about aliens on Mars becomes rare(the only recent one I know was that uncanny film Mars Needs Moms). Other stories in this category include the Mass Effect franchise and a lot of those 1980 TV series about bunch of people sent into outer space.

Since you have included Spirited Away which is set in the spirit world, then you can include Dante's Inferno which is set in Hell.

The isekai genre seems to be a very common thing for video game movies. Mortal Combat (1995) does that as well and Sonic the Hedgehog movie does that. Even the first video game move Super Mario Bros. does that. Would the upcoming reboot, Super Marion Bros.: The Movie, do the same?



This really depends on what drama you have inserted. Also, dramas in wish-fulfillment isekai stories tends to be really bad and contrived.

Considering that the original poster uses isekai as a catch-all term including such stories as Alice in Wonderland, Monsters Inc. and Coco.

I could also add to the list some of the stories that I really liked: Digimon series, Yellow Submarine, Coraline, Vision of Escaflone, Peter Pan, The Twelve Kingdoms and Infinity Train.

Isekai is kinda broad really. It is just defined by a concept. It is similar to "talking animals" stories in that sense.

What have become stale, and what you seem to have described, are the Light Novel Isekais and the webnovel author that just copy the lighnovel's formulas. The ones that have are adapted into Anime are specially lacking in variety. They are mainly just those killed (by Truck-kun) and reincarnated into a different world or transported into game-like world isekais. There are more to this trope than this considering all the isekai out there.

Also, acknowledging the tropes in the story that endangers one's suspension of disbelief is called Lampshade Hanging. Adding drama isn't subversion or deconstruction. Subversion is when the story leads you to believe a certain trope is going to happen but doesn't. Deconstruction is taking apart a trope to examine and explore it.

It is Looney Tunes (and its sister Merrie Melodies). It was inspired by Disney's Silly Symphonies.

And Tunes make sense. Looney is just a synonym for Silly, while Tunes is just a synonym for music. Looney Tunes essentially just means silly music.

And here is a poster for Looney Tunes:

No it wasn't. It is now sure, but it wasn't always. I believe in the Mandela Effect. So this isn't a discussion that either of us will walk away satisfied from because I don't believe you or anyone else. And I'm not the only one. The Mandela Effect has quite the following.

 

[Fox-Trot-9]

My favorite though is Looney Toons. It wasn't Looney "Tunes". It was Loony "Toons".

Ah, I remember that. I used to watch that when I was a kid, and I always remembered it as Loony Toons, not Loony Tunes.

It's the same thing with Fruit Loops cereal, which is now Froot Loops for some reason.

Another famous one, which slipped my mind earlier, was Darth Vader's line to Luke Skywalker, saying, "Luke, I am your father," but now it's, "No, I am your father," which completely bamboozled me. Like, seriously, I remember watching an interview where James Earl Jones says, "Luke, I am your father."

I remember the Berenstein Bears and I STILL don't believe the crap about it now being Berenstain.

Yeah, I get a lot when I bring that up. I never watched Berentein Bears, but I remember going through the TV Guide channel and seeing the title of that show spelled, Berenstein Bears.

 

[Ral]

No it wasn't. It is now sure, but it wasn't always. I believe in the Mandela Effect. So this isn't a discussion that either of us will walk away satisfied from because I don't believe you or anyone else. And I'm not the only one. The Mandela Effect has quite the following.

I know.

I actually refer to the cartoons as Looney Toons too even though I know it was Looney Tunes. My mind just prefer Toons over Tunes when referring to them. Even when I write my comments I write toons instead of tunes and edit it afterwards.

Even with intact memories it still works? It is so powerful.

Or maybe because Toons actually exist? Tiny Toon Adventures I mean.

Berenstain was always Berenstain to me though.

 

[Wohendum-Bluu]

Ah, I remember that. I used to watch that when I was a kid, and I always remembered it as Loony Toons, not Loony Tunes.

It's the same thing with Fruit Loops cereal, which is now Froot Loops for some reason.

Another famous one, which slipped my mind earlier, was Darth Vader's line to Luke Skywalker, saying, "Luke, I am your father," but now it's, "No, I am your father," which completely bamboozled me. Like, seriously, I remember watching an interview where James Earl Jones says, "Luke, I am your father."



Yeah, I get a lot when I bring that up. I never watched Berentein Bears, but I remember going through the TV Guide channel and seeing the title of that show spelled, Berenstein Bears.

Holy crap!! I remember Fruit Loops too. Not Froot Loops. I haven't even looked at a box of those in a while but "Froot"? Nah that wasn't how it was. And I remember "Luke, I am your father". I watched that as a kid and I KNOW that's what he said. So yeah...it bothers me that people are so quick to just dismiss things.

 

[Ral]

Holy crap!! I remember Fruit Loops too. Not Froot Loops. I haven't even looked at a box of those in a while but "Froot"? Nah that wasn't how it was. And I remember "Luke, I am your father". I watched that as a kid and I KNOW that's what he said. So yeah...it bothers me that people are so quick to just dismiss things.

It is Fruit Loops… (me looking it up)…

 

[AdLeto]

Space travel also counts as isekai

 

[ForestDweller]

This really depends on what drama you have inserted. Also, dramas in wish-fulfillment isekai stories tends to be really bad and contrived.

Well, I certainly hope my drama doesn't count on that list.

 

[JayDirex]

Space travel also counts as isekai

and time travel, since the person "travels" to an alternate time.

 

[OneRanter]

My favorite though is Looney Toons. It wasn't Looney "Tunes". It was Loony "Toons". Tunes don't even make sense if you know what the show is and what it was about and I don't get how no one sees the problem with this. It was Toons. Not Tunes. How can no one see the problem?

It is both.
There is also the Tiny Toons.
Names can change due to translations, spinn-offs, and adaptations through time and countries.

 

[AdLeto]

and time travel, since the person "travels" to an alternate time.

This is the absolute proof that sci-fi is a subgenre of isekai

 

[xluferx]

People only care when I have my MC fight and defeat enemies but when I take time to bond my characters specially with the female lead they immediately throw a fit

 

[Ar_Not_Nas]

Stands up
Opens door and steps out into hallway
ISEKAI

 

[Ral]

People only care when I have my MC fight and defeat enemies but when I take time to bond my characters specially with the female lead they immediately throw a fit

This seems to be a pacing and structural issue. Maybe also something with how you build the character.

 

[TRNRLogan]

This is the absolute proof that sci-fi is a subgenre of isekai

Or that sci-fi is a subgenre of fantasy.

 

[Laeyioun]

Well, addressing whether space-planet travel sci-fi, multi-world cultivation worlds are isekai - I will "barely" consider those for the different world aspect, but I am aware that it doesn't have the 'stepping into another world' significance implications for the story, the protagonist, and it's main theme.

This really depends on what drama you have inserted. Also, dramas in wish-fulfillment isekai stories tends to be really bad and contrived.

This is usually because drama in those kinds of stories exists for the convenience of the main protagonist and his heroines. The author can also downplay it or hesitate in making an impactful decision for drama. Drama may also feel out of place when it doesn't handle the shift from the happy stuff of most of the story to the serious ones. As you said, it depends on what drama is inserted and how it is written.

Considering your definition of isekai, then there is actually so much about it.

You can consider really old stories especially ones before transportation becomes reasonable to be isekai stories. The Odyssey, for example. In those times, what is beyond the sea is literally a different world to people back then; that is why these stories involve people sailing into the sea and arriving on mysterious magical worlds. These includes many mythological stories by the way. Other stories of this type includes Gulliver's Travels and Dinotopia.

The same thing happens with Science Fiction. We travel the vast space and discover alien lifeforms and worlds. The Barsoom series for example. When we become more knowledgeable about space, stories about aliens on Mars become rare(the only recent one I know was that uncanny film Mars Needs Moms). Other stories in this category include the Mass Effect franchise and a lot of those 1980s TV series about bunch of people sent into outer space.

Since you have included Spirited Away which is set in the spirit world, then you can include Dante's Inferno which is set in Hell.

The isekai genre seems to be a very common thing for video game movies. Mortal Combat (1995) does that, Sonic the Hedgehog movie does that. Even the first video game move Super Mario Bros. does that. Would the upcoming reboot, Super Marion Bros.: The Movie, do the same?

In a sense, Isekai and its deconstruction existed long before the term Isekai exist and before these typical Isekai stories become mainstream. It just that, these old isekai stories doesn't really receive much attention
I could also add to the list some of the stories that I really liked: Digimon series, Yellow Submarine, Coraline, Vision of Escaflone, Peter Pan, The Twelve Kingdoms and Infinity Train.

Isekai is kinda broad really. It is just defined by a concept. It is similar to "talking animals" stories in that sense.

Informative ? Yeah. I am guilty of not reading classics and hardbound books as I should, but I am familiar and have read Dante's Inferno, Odyssey and others, while only watching the movie for Gulliver's travels. Yes, I consider those as isekai, with Odyssey able to barely become considered as one due to my knowledge of the version I have read that made it seem as if he was only travelling to different island and the oceans. But looking at it now, it had some hints of it because of the way Odysseus gets stalled and the insane amount of time it took for him to travel. I am curious, do you consider Aeneid as one?

Video games do use it, Undertale for example, and Deltarune which I am not familiar with. These work well because the main character escapes reality (making the audience relate and immerse themselves with the main character and the following adventures), and affects the world they are in significantly while gaining incredible powers.

Ohh, I included Peter Pan yesterday but it did not become saved. Maybe I'll look into those stories, I appreciate it.

Is Talking Animals a controversial topic though?

What have become stale, and what you seem to have described, are the Light Novel Isekais and the webnovel author that just copy the lighnovel's formulas. The ones that have are adapted into Anime are specially lacking in variety. They are mainly just those killed (by Truck-kun) and reincarnated into or transported into game-like world isekais. There are more to this trope than this considering all the isekai out there.

Yes. There are good and bad ones. There are so much Isekai too which despite being a great story, the going into another world is only used as a plot device yet not explored or handled at all.

Also, acknowledging the tropes in the story that endangers one's suspension of disbelief is called Lampshade Hanging. Adding drama isn't subversion or deconstruction. Subversion is when the story leads you to believe a certain trope is going to happen but doesn't. Deconstruction is taking apart a trope to examine and explore it.

My intent was to pick apart specific aspects or ideas of isekai and going from there, hence my use of the term deconstruction. I don't think I'm aiming for drama but rather what makes Isekais work and the wonderful distinctiveness of such works.

 

[ForestDweller]

Drama may also feel out of place when it doesn't handle the shift from the happy stuff of most of the story to the serious ones

Hmm, maybe this is what happened with my story.

I'm not sure really. No reviews or comments have gone into detail about it.

 

[Laeyioun]

Hmm, maybe this is what happened with my story.

I'm not sure really. No reviews or comments have gone into detail about it.

I haven't read yours so I am not qualified to say anything, but I can say your audiences may be looking for easy to solve dramas like the one in SAO where mc is overpowered and narrative-almighty.

 

[ForestDweller]

I haven't read yours so I am not qualified to say anything, but I can say your audiences may be looking for easy to solve dramas like the one in SAO where mc is overpowered and narrative-almighty.

Maybe. Like I said, they don't seem to like "weak" MCs.

 

[Laeyioun]

I prefer grim dark franchises such as Warhammer 40k and beserk anyway,I occasionally read isekai with my brain turned off, although I find a very few rare gems like re:zero,for people complaining about too much edginess, most of u people have never been anywhere near an actual war or battlefield have u?u will realise when you fight ,kill, bleed and watch people die that so called good and just are on some way full of shit.

I like and love Re:zero, but in my personal opinion, some drama and increasing the likability of a certain blue-haired heroine might have felt forced. And also, Subaru's general whining and helplessness may be unpalatable as it did happen many times.