PAY ARTISTS !!

[Bald-san]

Idk I hate the hypocrisy some authors have I've seen around the internet. Why do we complain about AI Writing then turn around and use AI art? We are all in this together. You hate all of it or none of it here. If you hate AI Art, then PAY YOUR ARTISTS! They need to eat just like you or I. Idk, It's been simmering in my brain for a while.

I do use open-source ones without removing watermarks. This is why I can't post things in RR as they forbid it

 

[LazyScript]

That's the thing about AI art. It steals. And you're not able to credit the artist.

Yeah, some ppl may say what's the harm if you're not using it for monetary gain. But publishing art (in general, not just drawings but literature as well) can be more than just money. It's about building reputation and a personal image.

When you use AI art, you are crafting an image and reputation not of your own works, but of others. It's not your work. So, can it be right to use it to build your own reputation, and possibly your career?

I just don't know.

 

[Eldoria]

That's the thing about AI art. It steals. And you're not able to credit the artist.

Well, you should complain to AI art companies like Gemini, Grok, and ChatGPT... and sue them for billions of dollars. Good luck!

 

[L1aei]

That's the thing about AI art. It steals. And you're not able to credit the artist.

Yeah, some ppl may say what's the harm if you're not using it for monetary gain. But publishing art (in general, not just drawings but literature as well) can be more than just money. It's about building reputation and a personal image.

When you use AI art, you are crafting an image and reputation not of your own works, but of others. It's not your work. So, can it be right to use it to build your own reputation, and possibly your career?

I just don't know.

Dunno why Thomas Midgley Jr. popped into my head after reading that, but it did. Totally extreme, totally impulsive thought. And I'm not saying this is anywhere near the same. Only thing in common? They both ended up generating... poisoned generations. One literal, one... metaphorical, I guess?

 

[Jerynboe]

Here’s a problem. I think AI writing is BAD to the point that I find it utterly unusable. I find AI art to be good enough to serve as seasoning for my story. I don’t find the use of AI to be evil, I find it (at times) to be an insufficient tool.

Further, the alternative to me using AI art is me not using art in my story. I’m straight up broke and in debt. I have zero dollars I could set aside to pay an artist. If I considered AI art amoral, the answer would be obvious. Don’t use AI art. However, I do not consider AI art amoral, and am fully aware of the arguments for why it is. I don’t find them compelling.

It sucks that professional artists are losing a revenue stream, but I have never in my life seriously considered commissioning an artist to do anything, even when I had money. I’m literally married to a competent artist and she’s never volunteered to do it, or objected in any way to my use of ai, despite being my primary beta reader. Any artist who looks at the pictures I generate for my book and sees lost revenue is exhibiting the same kind of greed Netflix does when it implements new procedures to reduce account sharing in the hope that their viewers will get their own accounts. SOME will, and the ones who are doing the free thing because they genuinely wouldn’t do the expensive thing? Fuck em.

 

[RainyLiquid]

Feel free to give everyone the money to buy their cover arts, since it is such a big deal to you.

 

[gaylolis]

now im wondering what i should do to pay myself

 

[Avarice_Of_The_Seven]

The funniest thing I find about all this is that people attribute more value to book cover than to story itself. I simply can't understand this logic.

An author is an artist that creates stories, their skill lies in their writing. They are not supposed to even have any artistic ability related to drawing and painting, so why the hell would Author's build reputation be through book cover.

Before stating any opinion on it, if only people would ask themselves what the book cover contributes in the artistic value of a novel.

But of course, I know that humans love to fight, this just happens to be a topic for them to fight over.

 

[L1aei]

But of course, I know that humans love to fight, this just happens to be a topic for them to fight over.

Yes. This thread is a rally with the intent of there being a confrontation.

 

[Arkus86]

now im wondering what i should do to pay myself

Start by sending yourself hateful messages guilt-tripping you for not paying yourself

 

[JordanIda]

OP, people still pay for art. If you're young enough, matriculate at a fine arts college and make real connections in the real world. If you've already done that, get commissioned in a gallery. Or start a career as a stage art director. Or in the marketing department of a large corporation. Or for a motion picture production company. Then you'll be paid.

Here you're a bottom feeder, and there's no way out of the muck and mire.

You think writers have it any better? They don't. Words are art, too. Until GPT mangles them. Why would anyone in their right mind pay for visual art to slap on AI-assisted alphabet-puke, just to draw in garbage-skimming bluebottle flies that don't know the difference?

 

[Jerynboe]

The funniest thing I find about all this is that people attribute more value to book cover than to story itself. I simply can't understand this logic.

An author is an artist that creates stories, their skill lies in their writing. They are not supposed to even have any artistic ability related to drawing and painting, so why the hell would Author's build reputation through book cover.

Before stating any opinion on it, if only people would ask themselves what the book cover contributes in the artistic value of a novel.

But of course, I know that humans love to fight, this just happens to be a topic for them to fight over.

It contributes very little to the artistic value of the novel but quite a lot to the marketability of the novel. Same with posting about it on social media, plugging it in forums, timing out your posts so they hit the front page, putting your story in your signature, and a dozen other things people can do to market their novel.

It is a cruel truth that most people’s work isn’t good enough to get meaningful traction via pure word of mouth. Even if you are the reincarnation of HP Lovecraft, you need to get people to read it so they can tell others, in addition to overcoming your crippling racism and agoraphobia. That means marketing it, and the title and cover are two of the only things that almost every single prospective reader will see before they commit to the first page.

 

[JordanIda]

Also, TinaMigario's post is brilliant and probably at least somewhat true, because that has happened to many of us in the corporate world, struggling to engage "genius" savants who live in alleys.

OtherSlater really ought to stop skimming and read her post. If he ever wakes up.

 

[L1aei]

Also, TinaMigario's post is brilliant and probably at least somewhat true, because that has happened to many of us in the corporate world, struggling to engage "genius" savants who live in alleys.

@TinaMigarlo You got a fan.

 

[unlaumy]

Too lazy to read through everything. But I have this similar sentiment on people's selective distaste of AI.

Writers hate AI writings but use it for everything else (audio, cover)
Animators hate AI animations but use it for everything else (voiceover)
Artists hate AI arts but use it for everything else...
Designers....
Actors...
Musicians...
Game developers...

There's only one thing we can do about this. We must raise the racial consciousness of humanity. We're each the petite bourgeoisie as long as we refuse to understand other people. We must bind our common grievances against AI to work together.

The most virtuous is really AI haters who have no creative job/hobby at all. They do it for the sake of it. They're ascent gods of our current time.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Idk I hate the hypocrisy some authors have I've seen around the internet. Why do we complain about AI Writing then turn around and use AI art? We are all in this together. You hate all of it or none of it here. If you hate AI Art, then PAY YOUR ARTISTS! They need to eat just like you or I. Idk, It's been simmering in my brain for a while.

No, we are only in this together if the writer and artist start out working with each other to create the best product possible - and then both should get money when it sells.
Sadly, there are no guarantees of sales, and sometimes the author doesn't have a choice (Pocket FM insists on using their own AI artists; trad publishers frequently hire out the cheapest artist they can - often giving them either a sample chapter or a half page synopsis and nothing more to work from).

 

[L1aei]

Too lazy to read through everything. But I have this similar sentiment on people's selective distaste of AI.

Writers hate AI writings but use it for everything else (audio, cover)
Animators hate AI animations but use it for everything else (voiceover)
Artists hate AI arts but use it for everything else...
Designers....
Actors...
Musicians...
Game developers...

There's only one thing we can do about this. We must raise the racial consciousness of humanity. We're each the petite bourgeoisie as long as we refuse to understand other people. We must bind our common grievances against AI to work together.

The most virtuous is really AI haters who have no creative job/hobby at all. They do it for the sake of it. They're ascent gods of our current time.

I mean, yeah, teachers even use it to whip up end-of-semester reports and recap students flagged for extra attention... though most still review and tweak it themselves; it's more of a time-saver than a replacement.

 

[Cardon]

Also, TinaMigario's post is brilliant and probably at least somewhat true, because that has happened to many of us in the corporate world, struggling to engage "genius" savants who live in alleys.

OtherSlater really ought to stop skimming and read her post. If he ever wakes up.

I read the post and it boiled down to "you brought AI onto yourselves because you don't want to work for right-wingers", which is honestly a commendable stance on the artist's part. AI is the favorite tool of fascists for a reason, no decent artist wants to work with them.

Editing because there was a small part at the end that was a different issue: yes of course you should give an artist references for what you want drawn, too. That's how it works, commissioning an artist.

 

[JayMark]

Idk I hate the hypocrisy some authors have I've seen around the internet. Why do we complain about AI Writing then turn around and use AI art? We are all in this together. You hate all of it or none of it here. If you hate AI Art, then PAY YOUR ARTISTS! They need to eat just like you or I. Idk, It's been simmering in my brain for a while.

I'm mostly with you.

When a friend put me on to indie publishing and I decided to give it a try, I discovered AI art. I was thrilled at the output. I was able to see my character on a cover. It wasn't perfect; it was the cheapest free shit out there, but that literally made me cry a little. So at first I was like a kid with a new toy, but then I became more aware of how it worked. It's still fun to play with. But the output, while good, gravitates to a specific generic style.

How AI art has been trained bothers me. The decentiving affect on human artists bothers me. The market flooding tactics against the cultural economy bothers me. The lack of authenticity bothers me. Myself feeling anti-AI for writing and editing while still using a few AI covers bothers me.

So I'm working to minimize my reliance on, and eventually discontinue, the AI covers I use.

This is not easy. I write for free. I get negative financial value for the time and effor to produce and promote my work. I've drawn my own covers for two of my books, but that takes days of time and effort for even modest results. Those covers then compete for clicks with a flood of AI covers of higher quality.

This is in addition to my writing having to compete with a flood of AI written and assisted writing that negates all the effort and suffering I put into learning English grammar. My authentic writing looks idiotic compared to some of the better generated writings. But if someone uses AI simply to brush up their mechanics, I'm not going to hold it against them just because I had to learn it the difficult way.

It is what it is. Ai is not going anywhere. I'm not going to rule out using it if it becomes the only way to compete. I have to learn how to deal with it. Possibly learn how to use it while remaining authentic to compete in this new market. I don't like it, but I'm not going to blame someone for using a decent AI picture for their cover, especially if that's what helps get views. The writer is not selling the cover. So long as the contents are authentic, that's what I care about as far as indie writing goes.

*This nobody sits at a campfire clacking away at a typewriter. The bots and the cyborgs pass in waves. The nobody simply tries to hold a little high ground and figure out a new survival strategy before time runs out.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

There you got your reason why he is not a pro despite having the skill. To be a Pro artists, professionalism is something you need, one cannot be always the artsy type that only works if you are the next pablo picasso.

As a pro like in every other business you do not get to choose your work all the time, nor the style you work in, no you take what your boss at the studio gives you and if necessary wring it and go on a research spree.

Because when they come with something that you have no idea of, any you still need to do it...well then grind your loins and expect to invest more time into research of what you are supposed to be drawing then actually drawing.

I can understand why AI art on a locig basis, because someone who does not earn money does not want to spend it, but there are free other possibilities out there you can use. Sometimes all you need to do is...ask a polite question and if it fails you can still go and do AI.

And now I will stop or I talk myself into a rage.

Ohoh...I'm pretty happy I can be considered a professional ??

Also: I love how this thread turned into a chaotic novel of sorts. I'll be discharged from the hospital later, so reading this kills time for me.