Why do I feel like the more descriptive the story, the harder it is to visualize?

AliceShiki

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that's the thing. descriptions should evoke emotions. that's what makes them memorable. that's why Chinese novels use metaphors like jade beauty or skin as pale as moonlight.
X Person is beautiful [insert metaphor for beautiful here] isn't particularly emotional for anyone except the receiving party and the one saying it.

If a random person on the streets uses a metaphor to talk about my appearance, I'll just be creeped out. If my boyfriend does it though, I'll probably be pretty happy about it.

And on a novel... I'm indifferent to it. The metaphor won't touch me as it doesn't involve me. I need actual character emotions to get invested, not physical descriptions.
 
D

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It makes me think of a very beautiful girl with green skin, which is very good, indeed~
Wow, an entirely predictable reaction. Considering your misunderstanding of "Show and tell"

Here is a list of dead metaphors that people use due to common sense and share understanding.

Did you know when someone calls you a "laughing stock" also don't literally means you are in a stock. Or when people say stock in this context it's not the stock market nor the stock of a rifle.

But we still use it. It's quite interesting.


And on a novel... I'm indifferent to it.
Each to their own, personally, a novel without some level of poetics, subtext, similes and metaphor feel either too bland, too clinical or too juvenile.

Books that overuse metaphors can feel pretentious, yes. But books the underuse metaphors... feels like the work of the toddler, scrawling in their diary about what they did at school today. (I am aware that I just used a simile to talk about metaphors, it is because it is just more interesting to write and this is not me trying to proof it is more interesting to read similes and metaphors than without.)
 
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BlackKnightX

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Wow, an entirely predictable reaction. Considering your misunderstanding of "Show and tell"

Here is a list of dead metaphors that people use due to common sense and share understanding.
Did you know when someone calls you a "laughing stock" also don't literally means you are in a stock. Or when people say stock in this context it's not the stock market nor the stock of a rifle.

But we still use it. It's quite interesting.
Do you know this little thing called “joke”? Judging by your reaction, maybe you don’t, huh?

And as for ”show, don’t tell”, it technically means exactly just that. Show the readers the scene, the story, let them experience it. It’s just that simple, I understand that.

But I brought this up because this “show, don’t tell” thing is confusing, and if you don’t really get to the core or the intention of it, you’ll have a higher chance of over-describing things.

How did I know this? Well, I’ve been there before, and not just me, either. There are still many people who end up writing in purple prose just because of this “show, don’t tell”.

It’s a good concept with good intention, but the wording of it is really misleading—especially the word “don’t”.

If my information was right, then this “show, don’t tell” thing was originated from Percy Lubbock’s The Craft of Fiction.

And he never actually says ‘show, don’t tell’, either.

He just writes: “the art of fiction does not begin until the novelist thinks of his story as a matter to be shown, to be so exhibited that it will tell itself”.

He also writes: “The expanse of life which the story covers is far too great to be shown to the reader in a series of purely dramatic scenes. It is absolutely necessary for the author or his spokesman to draw back for a general view of the matter from time to time; and whenever he does so the story becomes his impression, summarized and pictured for the reader.”

The second quote right there is very clear that the word “show, don’t tell” is ridiculous. If we go by this definition, then yes, of course, you want to show thing, to let the readers experience, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t tell—summarize, giving impression, exposition, etc.

For one, telling moves things faster. If you show everything in scene, then you’ll get tired of it eventually.

In conclusion: I don’t think I misunderstand the concept at all. I understand it in every definitions and what it implies. It’s just that I don’t like it, that’s all. It’s just my personal opinion stemmed from my personal experience.

Oh, and again. That green jade beauty thing was a joke. (I have to say it again since you seem to be the type who can’t understand the context.)

Peace~ ✌?
 
D

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Do you know this little thing called “joke”? Judging by your reaction, maybe you don’t, huh?
Erm... ooook? :blob_frown:

The misunderstanding I referred to was the word "don't" in the phrase, "show, don't tell"

"don't" does not literally means, don't do it.
From what I see It means to examine for the better option
in most cases "show/action" is favored over "tell/description"
but books can't actually don't do one or the other

"jade" does not mean the green, stone, nor hardness
But it refers to smoothness, flawless and unmarked

Both lines of logic runs on the same framework,
an element of the phrase taken out
the unintended interpretation was chosen
Making a false statement

Therefore, the "joke" was
an entirely predictable reaction
In writing terms, it was setup and paid off? Or is it foreshadowing? I don't know, I am not a writer.

Though, I am not sure how whether it was joke or not have any relevance to me stating the predictability of the reaction due to underlying echoes of logic.
:blob_dizzy::blob_dizzy::blob_dizzy:

But it must be said.
Dead metaphors are still extraordinarily fascinating.
Even though we often use the phrase time is running out,
the etymology traces back to use of hourglasses
or
Deadlines
originally referred to the line around the perimeter of a prison
wherein a prisoner would be shot if they went beyond it.

All very interesting.
Considering as time goes on
this false understanding
of metaphor will be more common
Or more so in translated metaphors like "jade" skin.
 

BlackKnightX

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"don't" does not literally means, don't do it.
From what I see It means to examine for the better option
in most cases "show/action" is favored over "tell/description"
but books can't actually don't do one or the other
That’s what I‘ve been saying, dude.

Highlight this sentence: “From what I see”

Judging by that sentence, it’s clear that this is your personal point of view—your opinion. But that doesn’t mean that others will see it the way you do.

Now, I’m sure there are some people who see it like that as well—especially the one who invented this advice. They surely intended to turn the original concept into an easy quote to remember and follow.

But, that raises a problem: it’s misleading. Like I said, when people see the word “don’t”, they don’t think about other options. Don’t means don’t, and that’s it.

If you don’t believe me, then you can go search on Google (or anywhere at all) and see the discussions about writers who’ve been ruined by this advice. It’s a good concept, but bad advice because it’s misleading.

If I go by what you’re saying—“From what I see It means to examine for the better option”—then doesn’t ”show more than tell” sound much better?

Let’s compare it side by side (the intention of the concept is to have the writer focusing more on showing, letting readers experience the story, more than telling, summarizing event)—“Show, don’t tell” or “Show more than tell”.

Which one is misleading, and which one portrays the intention of the original concept better, you decide.
Though, I am not sure how whether it was joke or not have any relevance to me stating the predictability of the reaction due to underlying echoes of logic.
(I have to say it again since you seem to be the type who can’t understand the context.)
Replace the word “since” with a colon. That’s my reply.
 

Agentt

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Jesus, has this turned into a fight?
random person on the streets uses a metaphor to talk about my appearance, I'll just be creeped out. If my boyfriend does it though, I'll probably be pretty happy about it
Year 2056, it has been 182 days since the apocalypse started. Alice still brags to us about how happy she is in a relationship
 

AliceShiki

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Year 2056, it has been 182 days since the apocalypse started. Alice still brags to us about how happy she is in a relationship
 

IDKWtWrite-San

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Jesus, has this turned into a fight?

Year 2056, it has been 182 days since the apocalypse started. Alice still brags to us about how happy she is in a relationship
living in a dream, aren't we huh?
 
D

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Replace the word “since” with a colon. That’s my reply.
ah-huh :blob_frown:
You seem weirdly obsessed with joke aspect of this conversation..
must have been good one,
good for you?
I guess
I don't really care.
So you do you, dude.

Jesus, has this turned into a fight?
?? Why are you looking for one? :blobrofl::blobrofl:
I think we just sharing opinions
and saying info we found interesting.

Did you know the idea of "show, don't tell"
can be traced back as far as
Aristotle in 350 BC

and the common quote
"Don’t tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass."
Anton Chekhov is unlikely to have been said or wrote it in the first place
I could have been reduce from a greater body of work.
And this quote's first instance was in 2002
which is not all that long ago.
Since Chekhov was around 1860-1904
He died at 44 years old :blob_shock:

If the extraordinarily snappy but reductive short form: "show, don't tell"
was not reduced from Chekhov's quote of moon
and the adage existed before the quote...
How?

Interesting right?
Where did it come from?
Was it reduced and coin from something?
of what? Who?

Interesting little mystery
 

Agentt

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Interesting right?
Where did it come from?
Was it reduced and coin from something?
of what? Who?
It is always interesting to wonder about those things,
Consider this,
In my country, the word Kumar means lad.
In the country right below me, the word Kumar means prince.
In the country right above me, the word Kumar doesn't exist.

How did this happened? Why didn't the word travel north but travelled south? Even if jt originated in south initially, how did it travel upnorth from there considering the geographical barriers seperation
 

SakeVision

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It is always interesting to wonder about those things,
Consider this,
In my country, the word Kumar means lad.
In the country right below me, the word Kumar means prince.
In the country right above me, the word Kumar doesn't exist.

How did this happened? Why didn't the word travel north but travelled south? Even if jt originated in south initially, how did it travel upnorth from there considering the geographical barriers seperation

maybe cause of massive af mountain range in the north?
 

BlackKnightX

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ah-huh :blob_frown:
You seem weirdly obsessed with joke aspect of this conversation..
must have been good one,
good for you?
I guess
I don't really care.
So you do you, dude.
Totally predictable reaction, judging by what I said before.

Right back at ya. You do you, dude~ ✌?
Jesus, has this turned into a fight?
Not really. It’s called arguments. A nice way to make friend~ lol
 
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Agentt

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maybe cause of massive af mountain range in the north?
There is a massive one in the south as well, plus the dens forest, but true, yes, the mountain range are a way bigger barrier than some plateaus.

But that doesn't explain how the country up north, which is supposed to be devided from us due to the mountains have a similar language, but the southern folks have a completely different one
 
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BlackKnightX

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Because the average attention span is collapsing and collective IQs are dropping in general. Simple answer really.
Don’t know about IQ, but the decrease in the average attention span is real. It makes sense, really; everything gets faster and faster now that we have internet.

Most people don’t even read anymore because watching anime and movie is more satisfying and requires less time to get the sense of satisfaction. Especially if you don’t have time, then reading book is out of the question.

It’s kind of sad, really, but it’s true. It is what it is.
 

CL

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There is a massive one in the south as well, plus the dens forest, but true, yes, the mountain range are a way bigger barrier than some plateaus.

But that doesn't explain how the country up north, which is supposed to be devided from us due to the mountains have a similar language, but the southern folks have a completely different one
Just a wild guess (seriously wild), but I believe Turkic people may have had something to do with that when the Khanate rolled on in. Yes, they wrecked a lot of nations up, but they also introduced those cultures wherever they went. Just as the West has Vikings to thank for spreading multi-culture around, so the East had the Horde. Again, this is wild guessing.
 

Agentt

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Just a wild guess (seriously wild), but I believe Turkic people may have had something to do with that when the Khanate rolled on in. Yes, they wrecked a lot of nations up, but they also introduced those cultures wherever they went. Just as the West has Vikings to thank for spreading multi-culture around, so the East had the Horde. Again, this is wild guessing.
Well, when it comes to east, it is very difficult to search up the origins. Even indo-european languages which are supposed to be influenced by European languages are all such a mess. Mostly due to how big the countries are here, more and more dialects kept on piling up, and joined the main language since they were the part of the same country at the end. This is like how in Greek Mythology, many sects existed, each having an opinion on the strongest God, yet it was still called the Greek mythology, despite the differences.



Anyhow, your theory is very probable, considering the stuff persians did and the effect of silk road
 
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