The guide trope and why it's sidelined

[Representing_Tromba]

The guide, a character in fiction that whether by choice or by request will guide the main character toward a goal, item, or quest. These characters take multiple forms as they can be anything from an old person, an animal, a love interest, or even a sentient stat menu. No matter what form they take though, these characters are often sidelined the moment the main character doesn't need them or is no longer needed to hold the audiences hand as the one who explains the world. Why is it that when these characters are either, still useful to the story or are so interesting that it would hurt the story to remove them, the author will usually get rid of them?

These guides can be great for many things within a story as it provides the reader and possibly the MC with insider insight about the world. However, that seems to be all these characters are ever used for. Martial arts master who teaches the MC how to win, shafted the moment the MC doesn't need a training arc. Wise old man that helps characters with emotional issues, shafted as soon as the characters need to deal with their emotions by themselves. Potential love interest that has known the character since day one, shafted the moment the "real" (by that I mean the authors waifu self insert) love interest appears. Animal or spirit guide, shafted as soon as the marketable plushie can be made. Sassy stat menu, shafted the moment the author or readers stop caring(if they ever cared at all) about the system stats. Each of these was shafted with good reason and intent but could have been utilized better. Why shaft these characters when they can be used for another character type at the same time? Most of these characters are the fan favorites as they can hit all of the good parts of various different arc types while also being a grounded support character that the audience and characters will often rely upon. All in all, I'm ranting about why the guide character always gets shafted or forced into the sidelines for seemingly no reason and without warning most of the time. Also, if the guide is a potential love interest then why is that rarely ever perused by the author? Do you know how many love interest guides are just given nothing in return, except maybe a broken heart or forced complacency? A lot! Well, what about the guides that are secretly villains? Those are cool, they can stay are usually well done.

What are your thoughts on the topic of guides and their tropes?

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I have no thoughts.

 

[LilRora]

I say that what you're describing is a very easy way to write a story or an arc, but not realistic.

I relate to it because I made that exact mistake in my story.

It all boils down to plot and how authors develop it, often either forgetting that a single character can appear in different situations or blatantly doing it too often. My answer to this is to do everything in moderation. It doesn't hurt if someone appears in a story only once and is forgotten afterwards, and it's not bad if a single character is constantly taking part in the plot, but it gets bad if it's repeated or if it's a very important character that is suddenly abandoned or an unimportant one that gets too much screen time.

 

[Corty]

The only guide a story needs is the author. What I get to understand from the rant your problem is not trope problems but author problems.

 

[ArcadiaBlade]

Just like money.

When you are poor, you think its the most important thing in your life.

Your well-off, you find that you can have everything you want as long as you have so much of it.

When your rich, life can be easy like throwing every problems at it.

When you have too much, its now useless to you.

Only when you start from scratch do you realize the importance of having those things.

Thats how guides work.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Virgin author: sidelines guide
Chad author: sidelines main character
Gigachad author: turns the guide into the main character

 

[Agentt]

I usually love such guides, because they allow authors to separate the story into parts which are lore rich, and parts which are basically pulp fiction, which kinda satisfies both kind of readers ideally.

However, there are many who do not like such sudden stops just for world building. I say using such a guide just to explain the main drive of the story is better; though I prefer Fate Knows Where You Live trope for that.

 

[georgelee5786]

I have no thoughts.

That's not good

 

[RepresentingWrath]

That's not good

¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

 

[APieceOfRock]

I kill everyone and everything that doesn't have plot relevance anymore (which is not a lot, all things considered.) They've served their purpose, now die for the MC's emotional growth!
It's probably a bad practise...

 

[Tempokai]

The best guide I know of is from Terraria. If you play the game first time, he's always there. Even if you don't need him, he is there, in your base. You literally go to hell to kill him to summon the boss that will open the more hardcore stuff, and a week later he returns, ready for you to interact with it.

How it can be achieved in novel writing? I dunno, this type of characters always become obscure the more the story goes. Keeping him relevant is hard, unless he is a godlike being (like a novice training center guy from LMS) that will make the character suffer few volumes later

 

[melchi]

The guide, a character in fiction that whether by choice or by request will guide the main character toward a goal, item, or quest. These characters take multiple forms as they can be anything from an old person, an animal, a love interest, or even a sentient stat menu. No matter what form they take though, these characters are often sidelined the moment the main character doesn't need them or is no longer needed to hold the audiences hand as the one who explains the world. Why is it that when these characters are either, still useful to the story or are so interesting that it would hurt the story to remove them, the author will usually get rid of them?

These guides can be great for many things within a story as it provides the reader and possibly the MC with insider insight about the world. However, that seems to be all these characters are ever used for. Martial arts master who teaches the MC how to win, shafted the moment the MC doesn't need a training arc. Wise old man that helps characters with emotional issues, shafted as soon as the characters need to deal with their emotions by themselves. Potential love interest that has known the character since day one, shafted the moment the "real" (by that I mean the authors waifu self insert) love interest appears. Animal or spirit guide, shafted as soon as the marketable plushie can be made. Sassy stat menu, shafted the moment the author or readers stop caring(if they ever cared at all) about the system stats. Each of these was shafted with good reason and intent but could have been utilized better. Why shaft these characters when they can be used for another character type at the same time? Most of these characters are the fan favorites as they can hit all of the good parts of various different arc types while also being a grounded support character that the audience and characters will often rely upon. All in all, I'm ranting about why the guide character always gets shafted or forced into the sidelines for seemingly no reason and without warning most of the time. Also, if the guide is a potential love interest then why is that rarely ever perused by the author? Do you know how many love interest guides are just given nothing in return, except maybe a broken heart or forced complacency? A lot! Well, what about the guides that are secretly villains? Those are cool, they can stay are usually well done.

What are your thoughts on the topic of guides and their tropes?

There are different dynamics depending on the number of characters. The main character + guide sometimes is easier to do than just a man/woman vs wild arc. I find most stories that have dozens of chapters where it is just the MC and no one else tend to get boring fast.

Find food.
Find shelter.
Survive hardships.

Rinse, repeat.

With another character acting as a guide it can offer some longer term goals through dialogue. Without anyone to talk to it sorta seems like the plot is just spinning around the toilet bowl.

With three or more people it introduces a group dynamic. Those are more interesting. Many an isekai starts out with being transmigrated to the wilderness. I often don't think the story starts for real until they make it to a town or something of the sort.

Though guides can be bad too. If the MC always follows the guide's advise it makes them seem like they don't have agency.

I kill everyone and everything that doesn't have plot relevance anymore (which is not a lot, all things considered.) They've served their purpose, now die for the MC's emotional growth!
It's probably a bad practise...

Isekai's some of peice of rock's characters into current story. There will be a refugee camp called Rock's Rejects.

 

[Vnator]

I feel like sidelining the guide is baked I to the whole hero's journey. Even with the most ancient stories I know that follow it, the guide leaves as soon as they've done their part. So it goes deeper than a trope, though you're entirely right.

 

[Lloyd]

I am pro shafting

 

[georgelee5786]

¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯

Nose

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Nose

Noose

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Noose

No's

 

[Representing_Tromba]

No's

Nero's

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

The story isn't about the guide, now is it?

The author only put them in in order to orient the reader and info dump. But since we hate info dumps we want to get the guide out asap.

Thus, no story should use guides.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

The story isn't about the guide, now is it?

The author only put them in in order to orient the reader and info dump. But since we hate info dumps we want to get the guide out asap.

Thus, no story should use guides.

The story may not be about the guide and they do have their places in stories. I'm just saying that authors need to utilize them fully if they are going to use them at all. Wasting them on only the info dumps (which can be done in an interesting way if the writer utilized them fully) isn't all they are good for. Take spiderman into the spider verse for example, Peter B. Parker is the reluctant hero guide for Miles but in the end is guided by Miles to be a better Spider-Man and husband. He was a guide that was fully utilized and there was great reward in it.