The Dense/Doormat/Beta MC

[Nanakawaichan]

This is one of the puzzling situations for me. I mean, I know a lot of friends that has an unstable job, and yet they have the gall to have relationship with several women. In my country though, it's frowned upon because of our religion (but in the southern regions, it's okay). XD

That's normal here. A street vendor who sells near my apartment has 3 wives and his wife helps him alternately every night. He once complained about his expenses, while I scream internally when I heard it. If you know your expenses is getting bigger why do you take so many wives in the first place

If, after 50 chapters the mc is still apologizing for every erection he has.

Is that kind of mc exist?

 

[Deleted member 29316]

That's normal here. A street vendor who sells near my apartment has 3 wives and his wife helps him alternately every night. He once complained about his expenses, while I scream internally when I heard it. If you know our expenses is getting bigger why do you take so many wives in the first place

Is that kind of mc exist?

Wow...and I can't even get my salary on to the end of the month (I'm living with my parents). Oh well, that's their lives...

Anyway, try the MC of the LN 'Konjiki no Wordmaster'. You're in for a big, dense disappointment to the MC. Not necessarily apologizing, but he's as dense AF.

 

[Nanakawaichan]

Anyway, try the MC of the LN 'Konjiki no Wordmaster'. You're in for a big, dense disappointment to the MC. Not necessarily apologizing, but he's as dense AF.

That kind of mc exist?! I'm shock now. If he apologize when he doing it for the first time it's fine for me. But if he decide to do it again for second time (with the same woman) and he still feel guilty about it that's a turn off. Why repeat it if you hate it?

 

[Deleted member 29316]

That kind of mc exist?! I'm shock now. If they apologize when he doing it for the first time it's fine for me. But if he decide to do it again for second time (with the same woman) and he still feel guilty about it that's a turn off. Why repeat it if you hate it?

More like the MC doesn't respond to anything romantic.

I mean, it's pretty fine and cool at the start, but several chapters later, and it has become stale that I eventually dropped it. It's my first dropped LN.

The only thing that developed in KnW MC is his OPness and that's it.

The other side of the coin is Shingan no Yuusha where the MC immediately has intercourse with the FMCs upon saving them. Like, where's the emotional development?

 

[Nulzilch]

Beta MC has nothing to do with conservative society and patriarchy. Not making any poltical statements here but MENA countries generally are both of those as well, do you see them reacting in the same way? I don't think even indian and chinese or central asian characters will react like Beta japanese MC as well. Chinese MC are well known for being bloodthirsty, hypocritical, and asshole.

Beta MC is japanese phenomenon. It's a usual card board cut out with no personality or aims so that people can self insert into. Those people are japanese audience who have high social anxiety, avoid confrontations and are generally lonely, and therefore their MC is like that as well. So that passive doormat like behaviour is how a japanese person would react and it's their normal. Everyone outside of japan see this as beta behaviour because unlike them we don't live on isolated islands with a closed off culture.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Beta MC has nothing to do with conservative society and patriarchy. Not making any poltical statements here but MENA countries generally are both of those as well, do you see them reacting in the same way? I don't think even indian and chinese or central asian characters will react like Beta japanese MC as well. Chinese MC are well known for being bloodthirsty, hypocritical, and asshole.

Beta MC is japanese phenomenon. It's a usual card board cut out with no personality or aims so that people can self insert into. Those people are japanese audience who have high social anxiety, avoid confrontations and are generally lonely, and therefore their MC is like that as well. So that passive doormat like behaviour is how a japanese person would react and it's their normal. Everyone outside of japan see this as beta behaviour because unlike them we don't live on isolated islands with a closed off culture.

Well, if that's what you believe, then I won't contest you with that.

Like what I said, I tried explaining that kind of prevalent stereotype, and it doesn't exist exclusively in Japanese LNs.

Besides, the term was 'Dense Japanese MC', but anyone who's experienced in reading online works know that it doesn't refer exclusively to that. It has become an umbrella term for seemingly 'weak', 'passive' and 'shy' characters in the world of online self-publishing.

 

[Nanakawaichan]

Fanta and milk? That sounds such an odd combination. I want to try it now!

You should try it. But with sweetened condensed milk not with regular milk

 

[Vaxel00]

The other side of the coin is Shingan no Yuusha where the MC immediately has intercourse with the FMCs upon saving them. Like, where's the emotional development?

That could work, mainly if the female character is using sex as means for security or as a form of hysterical bonding. The strength of the relationship could be another concept to develop from there on either direction, make her too insecure and you develop an overly dependent yandere-like character.

That kind of mc exist?! I'm shock now. If he apologize when he doing it for the first time it's fine for me. But if he decide to do it again for second time (with the same woman) and he still feel guilty about it that's a turn off. Why repeat it if you hate it?

They're the kind of MCs that get NTRd but have to much plot armor for it to happen.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

That could work, mainly if the female character is using sex as means for security or as a form of hysterical bonding. The strength of the relationship could be another concept to develop from there on either direction, make her too insecure and you develop an overly dependent yandere-like character.



They're the kind of MCs that get NTRd but have to much plot armor for it to happen.

Heh, so based on what you said, it seems that culture has once again played a part on our preferences. Honestly, I find that kind of arrangement shallow (since it contrasted to my values and culture), but now that you said it, it's possible to use sex as a leverage for security. Hmm...nice PoV, thanks!

 

[Nulzilch]

Well, if that's what you believe, then I won't contest you with that.

Like what I said, I tried explaining that kind of prevalent stereotype, and it doesn't exist exclusively in Japanese LNs.

Besides, the term was 'Dense Japanese MC', but anyone who's experienced in reading online works know that it doesn't refer exclusively to that. It has become an umbrella term for seemingly 'weak', 'passive' and 'shy' characters in the world of online self-publishing.

Any form of writing or art represents one's thought and culture. A sweeping look at chinese, korean and japanese novels will tell you that all of their protagonist are generally the same in the same genre. Japanese are passive, chinese are aggressive and assholish etc etc. It's how we interpret literature and ancient writings, so it's not just my opinion. A Japanese MC is japanese experience.

Also i have checked again and I don't think you have given any specifics about similarity between jap and other countries MC. Fanfics and Japanese inspired novels doesn't count for the simple reason they are trying to copy japan and therefore their MC as well. So unreasonable, weak, shy, passive behaviour would obviously be hated. It's only normal in japan after all, not outside.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Any form of writing or art represents one's thought and culture. A sweeping look at chinese, korean and japanese novels will tell you that all of their protagonist are generally the same in the same genre. Japanese are passive, chinese are aggressive and assholish etc etc. It's how we interpret literature and ancient writings, so it's not just my opinion. A Japanese MC is japanese experience.

Also i have checked again and I don't think you have given any specifics about similarity between jap and other countries MC. Fanfics and Japanese inspired novels doesn't count for the simple reason they are trying to copy japan and therefore their MC as well. So unreasonable, weak, shy, passive behaviour would obviously be hated. It's only normal in japan after all, not outside.

Well it's also the culture here around in SEA, if you're asking about similarities.

There were certain things that Westerners would find appallingly dense about our cultures when it comes to the opposite sex.

And I guess I already made my point to further elaborate. Cultures between the West and East are very different, so if my point is not that clear, it's just don't immediately slap the Dense/Doormat/Beta Tag on an MC for a few chapters read. (Which some replies are quick to understand.)

So yeah, and also, take a look at the Illustration at the first page of this thread. That's the idea I'm trying to discuss.?

 

[Nulzilch]

Well it's also the culture here around in SEA, if you're asking about similarities.

There were certain things that Westerners would find appallingly dense about our cultures when it comes to the opposite sex.

So yeah, and also, take a look at the Illustration at the first page of this thread. That's the idea I'm trying to discuss.?

I don't believe in such illustrations. We aren't simple enough to be defined like this.

Also again i disagree that SEA is the same as japan. First the region is too diverse to be stereotyped like homogenous japan.

Japanese MC is result of japan social anxiety, loneliness, insecurity and hierarchical honour based culture that doesn't like people speaking out against authority. What conditions are in SEA that will make a similar MC?

Maybe you are thinking Japanese shy and the shy thay exist in your country is the same? A shy guy would have trouble talking to a girl, a Japanese shy would have MC wondering that if a girl is intrested in him even though she's twerking naked on his lap and asking him to bed her. Both aren't the same. Or maybe there's something i am getting something wrong?

 

[Vaxel00]

Heh, so based on what you said, it seems that culture has once again played a part on our preferences. Honestly, I find that kind of arrangement shallow (since it contrasted to my values and culture), but now that you said it, it's possible to use sex as a leverage for security. Hmm...nice PoV, thanks!

If an mc is overpowered and/or rich this would even justify the harem. It might be shallow but it's realistic or at least it doesn't break the suspension of disbelief.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I don't believe in such illustrations. We aren't simple enough to be defined like this.

Also again i disagree that SEA is the same as japan. First the region is too diverse to be stereotyped like homogenous japan.

Japanese MC is result of japan social anxiety, loneliness, insecurity and hierarchical honour based culture that doesn't like people speaking out against authority. What conditions are in SEA that will make a similar MC?

Maybe you are thinking Japanese shy and the shy thay exist in your country is the same? A shy guy would have trouble talking to a girl, a Japanese shy would have MC wondering that if a girl is intrested in him even though she's twerking naked on his laped and asking him to fuck her. Or maybe there's something i am getting something wrong?

Okay chill dude. I'm not trying to argue with anyone here. If you don't believe in such illustrations, then it's your problem, not mine.

Have you read what I posted? I'm talking about the similarities in conservatism and educational philosophies brought about by each society that we're in. Because yeah, face it, Asians are generally conservative before globalization took over. You're making this thread complicated than what I intended.

So in any case, I have made my point, and you may now take over. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

If an mc is overpowered and/or rich this would even justify the harem. It might be shallow but it's realistic or at least it doesn't break the suspension of disbelief.

I agree with that observation. It's pretty realistic when you think about it, everyone's clinging to the chaddest guy. Even in classroom setting, it's the same!

 

[Bloodysin28]

I agree with that observation. It's pretty realistic when you think about it, everyone's clinging to the chaddest guy. Even in classroom setting, it's the same!

This reminds me of middle school,I hanged out with fellow nerds and animefans(not full on weeb)said strongest Chad guy came to pick a fight with me and even straight up tried to punch me in the face,I sent the guy to the hospital with a caved in ribcage for3months,the guys should have known not to fuck with a guys whose family has served in the very elite of the country for over20 generations,his punch was practically a mosquito bite compared to the disciplining beats I took from my dad growing up,all the school bitches were then suddenly interested in me but I felt nothing but disgust.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

This reminds me of middle school,I hanged out with fellow nerds and animefans(not full on weeb)said strongest Chad guy came to pick a fight with me and even straight up tried to punch me in the face,I sent the guy to the hospital with a caved in ribcage for3months,the guys should have known not to fuck with a guys whose family has served in the very elite of the country for over20 generations,his punch was practically a mosquito bite compared to the disciplining beats I took from my dad growing up,all the school bitches were then suddenly interested in me but I felt nothing but disgust.

You could qualify for the cool 'Oniichan' trope.

???

 

[AkalE]

This reminds me of middle school,I hanged out with fellow nerds and animefans(not full on weeb)said strongest Chad guy came to pick a fight with me and even straight up tried to punch me in the face,I sent the guy to the hospital with a caved in ribcage for3months,the guys should have known not to fuck with a guys whose family has served in the very elite of the country for over20 generations,his punch was practically a mosquito bite compared to the disciplining beats I took from my dad growing up,all the school bitches were then suddenly interested in me but I felt nothing but disgust.

Not that I don't believe you. But I do not get why you weren't interested in the girls.

Also, how is this related to the OP, unless you consider yourself a Jap MC archtype

 

[Nanakawaichan]

I agree with that observation. It's pretty realistic when you think about it, everyone's clinging to the chaddest guy. Even in classroom setting, it's the same!

I think this will be the same in any country. When the teacher/lecturer said "Okay class, now I will give you 5 minutes to make your own team." Everyone will clinging into the smartest guy in the class

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I think this will be the same in any country. When the teacher/lecturer said "Okay class, now I will give you 5 minutes to make your own team." Everyone will clinging into the smartest guy in the class

And will make him/her do the project/activity by himself/herself while others loiter around. ???