The Dense/Doormat/Beta MC

[Assurbanipal_II]

There's quite a number of Filipino literatures actually, Noli Me Tàngere and El Filibusterismo to name a few.

Noli me tnagere circulor meos.

Yes, that sounds logical. But I was talking more about literature preceding the colonial era.

For example, many cultures of Middle and South America had domestic literature, but the arrival of the Conquistadors largely destroyed these culture and their literature was lost.

So I was asking about Filipino literature not written in Spanish. Or do you even speak Spanish? I am not sure now.

 

[TachimeSan]

Noli me tnagere circulor meos.

Yes, that sounds logical. But I was talking more about literature preceding the colonial era.

For example, many cultures of Middle and South America had domestic literature, but the arrival of the Conquistadors largely destroyed these culture and their literature was lost.

Well, most of the Filipino literature, before the colonization, were passed orally, in the form of myths and legends. Though there are still some written ones.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Noli me tnagere circulor meos.

Yes, that sounds logical. But I was talking more about literature preceding the colonial era.

For example, many cultures of Middle and South America had domestic literature, but the arrival of the Conquistadors largely destroyed these culture and their literature was lost.

Oh that? We did have some literature forms that survived, like the Ilocano 'Biag ni Lam-ang'. It's an ancient epic that narrates the story of a guy named 'Lam-ang' that could already talk moments after he was born. He also got stupidly powerful physical strength and stuff like that.

Another one is the 'Bakit Maalat ang Tubig sa Dagat' or 'Why is the Sea Water Salty?'. It's an ancient legend that explains the saltiness of the sea. Basically the story goes like this: there's a giant whose leg is being used by the natives to cross to an island. One time, when they were carrying salt cargoes, the giant's leg got itchy, and he was forced to scratch it, causing the crossing natives and their cargo to fall into water. Hence, answers the title's question.

Actually, some Spaniards preserved our ancient epics and tales. So yeah, we still do have a connection to our old, Malay past.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Southeast Asia's just one big Simp Nation, huh

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Southeast Asia's just one big Simp Nation, huh

Haha! Well, if that's your perception, then I won't contest it. We do have our own ways of letting out our OPness (sometimes). ^_<

 

[AkalE]

Hans' point is right. There exists a cultural difference that comes across as culture shock.

But I do have to disagree with the dense Beta MC that a lot of stories seem to present. The problem is the lack of literary acumen a lot of times. If it is an adventure fiction where the author doesn't realise about the girl head over heels, I can give it a pass. But if a fiction that is tagged as romance (along with all the ntr, smut and harem tag-alongs) can't get the concept of love across the character's head after repeated encounters, it's a problem.

Asian men are not inducted to wooing women or flirting. That could make males hesitant about expressing love, but making them blind to it is just plain wrong. You can see this in most traditional literary works from the continent. You do not see the heartless, love blind pushovers. You see righteous and honour bound characters that fall in love, have heartbreaks and overcomes adversities.

The dense MC is just a product of ameatuer writers dabbing into romance.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Hans' point is right. There exists a cultural difference that comes across as culture shock.

But I do have to disagree with the dense Beta MC that a lot of stories seem to present. The problem is the lack of literary acumen a lot of times. If it is an adventure fiction where the author doesn't realise about the girl head over heels, I can give it a pass. But if a fiction that is tagged as romance (along with all the ntr, smut and harem tag-alongs) can't get the concept of love across the character's head after repeated encounters, it's a problem.

Asian men are not inducted to wooing women or flirting. That could make males hesitant about expressing love, but making them blind to it is just plain wrong. You can see this in most traditional literary works from the continent. You do not see the heartless, love blind pushovers. You see righteous and honour bound characters that fall in love, have heartbreaks and overcomes adversities.

The dense MC is just a product of ameatuer writers dabbing into romance.

Aside from amateur writers dabbing into romance, it's also a product of our values. And in fact, some stories are a satire of the typical contemporary, shy Asian guy. Because, you know, literature and culture evolves over time, though some aspects of it remain.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Oh that? We did have some literature forms that survived, like the Ilocano 'Biag ni Lam-ang'. It's an ancient epic that narrates the story of a guy named 'Lam-ang' that could already talk moments after he was born. He also got stupidly powerful physical strength and stuff like that.

Another one is the 'Bakit Maalat ang Tubig sa Dagat' or 'Why is the Sea Water Salty?'. It's an ancient legend that explains the saltiness of the sea. Basically the story goes like this: there's a giant whose leg is being used by the natives to cross to an island. One time, when they were carrying salt cargoes, the giant's leg got itchy, and he was forced to scratch it, causing the crossing natives and their cargo to fall into water. Hence, answers the title's question.

Actually, some Spaniards preserved our ancient epics and tales. So yeah, we still do have a connection to our old, Malay past.

Perserved culture is good culture.

Now my last question, I was always under the impression you speak Spanish. But it turns out I was wrong.

So what language do you actually use for communication? What is this Filipino? You sure understand that it is confusing for a European outsider.

 

[BenJepheneT]

Haha! Well, if that's your perception, then I won't contest it. We do have our own ways of letting out our OPness (sometimes). ^_<

As a man living literally one Melaka peninsula between your country, I can attest to my own words. I've got friends who'd absolutely blast me if I ever say anything bad about their hololive chicks.

 

[TachimeSan]

Southeast Asia's just one big Simp Nation, huh

Considering the meaning of simps, then I'd say, yeah. Southeast Asia is a Big Simp nation ??‍

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Perserved culture is good culture.

Now my last question, I was always under the impression you speak Spanish. But it turns out I was wrong.

So what language do you actually use for communication? What is this Filipino? You sure understand that it is confusing for a European outsider.

Well, Filipino is an amalgamation of Spanish and Tagalog language. We have Spanish load words, like 'Mesa' (Table) or 'Cinco' (Five), mixed into our language.

Oh by the way, it's the official language, along with English. For government transactions, we mostly use English. If you go to the region of Metro Manila (the capital), Filipino is prevalent. For the other areas north of Metro Manila, we have Ilokano, Kapampangan, etc.

The central islands in the Visayas use their own dialect too. As well as the Mindanaoans (the southermost major island of our country).

 

[TachimeSan]

Perserved culture is good culture.

Now my last question, I was always under the impression you speak Spanish. But it turns out I was wrong.

So what language do you actually use for communication? What is this Filipino? You sure understand that it is confusing for a European outsider.

The General language used in the Philippines is called, well, Filipino. While that language is heavily influenced by the Spanish, it is still it's own identity. Although, the Philippines is a country made up of several thousands of islands, so there are A LOT more different dialects scattered here in there, most of which are native and uninfluenced by the Spaniards. But the one mainly used is called Filipino.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

Well, Filipino is an amalgamation of Spanish and Tagalog language. We have Spanish load words, like 'Mesa' (Table) or 'Cinco' (Five), mixed into our language.

Oh by the way, it's the official language, along with English. For government transactions, we mostly use English. If you go to the region of Metro Manila (the capital), Filipino is prevalent. For the other areas north of Metro Manila, we have Ilokano, Kapampangan, etc.

The central islands in the Visayas use their own dialect too. As well as the Mindanaoans (the southermost major island of our country).

Oh, and we have a loanword in English. It's 'Boondocks', from the Filipino 'Bundok', meaning 'Mountain'.

 

[Nanakawaichan]

Asian men are not inducted to wooing women or flirting. That could make males hesitant about expressing love, but making them blind to it is just plain wrong.

I thought you were in the same country as me (because you said fanta+milk is delicious ?) but it seems you didn't. You are right, Asian men are not inducted to wooing women or flirting directly but slowly but sure they can approach women they like and can even get them into their harems (yea, real harem). Even though many of their finances are unstable, they can have several wives. Polygamy is a normal thing with a note as long as the man can be fair to each of his wives. Also underage marriages still occur here (which somehow scared me) but the good news is it decrease over years.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I thought you were in the same country as me (because you said fanta+milk is delicious ?) but it seems you didn't. You are right, Asian men are not inducted to wooing women or flirting directly but slowly but sure they can approach women they like and can even get them into their harems (yea, real harem). Even though many of their finances are unstable, they can have several wives. Polygamy is a normal thing with a note as long as the man can be fair to each of his wives. Also underage marriages still occur here (which somehow scared me) but the good news is it decrease over years.

This is one of the puzzling situations for me. I mean, I know a lot of friends that has an unstable job, and yet they have the gall to have relationship with several women. In my country though, it's frowned upon because of our religion (but in the southern regions, it's okay). XD

In any case, the 'Dense'/'Doormat'/'Beta' MC could be a product of an amateur writer dabbing into romance, but then again, where would that writer get his/her idea from (well, aside from the novel references he/she has)? The most immediate answer is mostly from his/her own culture.

 

[Vaxel00]

I dislike beta MCs with a passion, especially when they contradict themselves in their goals.
Want a harem but become gynophobic and develop allergic reactions to every girl that show interest, want to become strong yet they sit on their ass or are too scared to be proactive, the author makes them op only to make them farmers or some bullshit like that.
A beta mc makes sense at the beginning of a story if he comes from a peaceful, stable and secure background, especially if he's young. But I expect growth, make the mc question his values and morals, make him take action or face the consequences and make the consequences ever lasting. If he's completely adverse to conflict make conflict find him, if he's afraid that the relationship with a female character would change should he confess then make his indecisiveness change it anyway, for the worse.

If, after 50 chapters the mc is still apologizing for every erection he has or keeps being conned or betrayed for being too naive then I completely lose interest.

 

[AkalE]

And in fact, some stories are a satire of the typical contemporary, shy Asian guy. Because, you know, literature and culture evolves over time, though some aspects of it remain.

If the dense protagonist fictions are satire, I agree it is a well written literary work.

But when they end up with a harem and have no guy friends for miles on end, I think we can safely say it is a pure self-insert written after a sudden rush of inspiration.

While cultural differences exist even within neighboring nations, good stories have a plot that is more than a dense protagonist going on a murder spree.
And these aren't just restricted to Asian writers either. We associate it as the dense Japanese MC" because that's where most people read about it. We don't see this in from native-English speaking authors because they are vetted by professional publishing houses and go through rounds of editing. The idea of webfics written by amateurs is a new platform for most of the world.
You will see similar characters pop up irrespective of geography.

 

[Deleted member 29316]

I dislike beta MCs with a passion, especially when they contradict themselves in their goals.
Want a harem but become gynophobic and develop allergic reactions to every girl that show interest, want to become strong yet they sit on their ass or are too scared to be proactive, the author makes them op only to make them farmers or some bullshit like that.
A beta mc makes sense at the beginning of a story if he comes from a peaceful, stable and secure background, especially if he's young. But I expect growth, make the mc question his values and morals, make him take action or face the consequences and make the consequences ever lasting. If he's completely adverse to conflict make conflict find him, if he's afraid that the relationship with a female character would change should he confess then make his indecisiveness change it anyway, for the worse.

If, after 50 chapters the mc is still apologizing for every erection he has or keeps being conned or betrayed for being too naive then I completely lose interest.

Ah, that kind of MC's a class of its own. I think that's where the other post reply (the one that talks about amateur authors dabbing into romance) actually applied. Though an MC may be weak and pushover at first, character development is surely important if an author is seeking to have a meaningful story. Otherwise, it would get stale...

 

[AkalE]

I thought you were in the same country as me (because you said fanta+milk is delicious ?)

Fanta and milk? That sounds such an odd combination. I want to try it now!

Also, which country? :O

 

[Deleted member 29316]

If the dense protagonist fictions are satire, I agree it is a well written literary work.

But when they end up with a harem and have no guy friends for miles on end, I think we can safely say it is a pure self-insert written after a sudden rush of inspiration.

While cultural differences exist even within neighboring nations, good stories have a plot that is more than a dense protagonist going on a murder spree.
And these aren't just restricted to Asian writers either. We associate it as the dense Japanese MC" because that's where most people read about it. We don't see this in from native-English speaking authors because they are vetted by professional publishing houses and go through rounds of editing. The idea of webfics written by amateurs is a new platform for most of the world.
You will see similar characters pop up irrespective of geography.

Yep, like I said, there are exceptions. What you're saying about amateur authors dabbing in romance is true, but then again, where would they get their character reference aside from the previous works they read? The immediate answer is in their values which is a part of their culture.

And yes, I believe character development is important too. The problem with most isekais is that it has become a wish-fulfillment genre, that's why the annoying 'self-insert' trope is there (one of my pet-peeves too). While it's not that bad, encouraging other ideas to flourish in the genre is better than having a set of expectations (or rules) about it.

Damn...I suddenly remembered 'Konjiki no WordMaster' with the 'Dense Protag going on a murder spree'. XD