Polycule tag

[SternenklarenRitter]

While we already have polygamy, polyandry, and "harem-seeking protagonist" tags, we do not have a polycule tag. I have seen a fair number of polycules in stories lately, and the social dynamics seem different enough that having a distinct tag may be warranted. Any thoughts on this?

 

[miyoga]

Again you fail to grasp the point (if you need help with English, I am an ESL teacher). There is such a thing as being too specific or niche. I've had to tell students not to use terms like "melancholia" because the general native-English-speaking audience wouldn't know the term. This holds true for polycule. Unless you're really keyed in to this kind of thing, it's not going to be a very well known/used term outside of an incredibly small group.

I am all for being more specific and exact, however, I'm far too aware of how people are unaware of current linguistic norms.

 

[Anonjohn20]

Again you fail to grasp the point (if you need help with English, I am an ESL teacher). There is such a thing as being too specific or niche.

I didn't "fail to grasp" anything LOL. I simply disagreed with you; you must not be used to that on your high horse. See, if you read...

"Which is the opposite of what tags are for. Categories are best used for broad groupings of topics, while tags are more specific keywords that you want to use to associate related content."

... I was stating that tags can't be too niche; being niche is the whole point of why tags exist rather than only using broad categories. If someone doesn't understand a tag, then he or she is free to not use it to search for stories, but there is no downside to niche tags existing.

I've had to tell students not to use terms like "melancholia" because the general native-English-speaking audience wouldn't know the term.

Well, that's not an unknown word, just an archaic one that was used hundreds of years ago. Nowadays people use "chronic depression" for the medical condition and "melancholy" (which is ironic as melancholy is about 300 years older than melancholia) for the emotion, so "melancholia" has fallen out of favor. I have not met a native English speaker who couldn't understand the word melancholy.

This holds true for polycule. Unless you're really keyed in to this kind of thing, it's not going to be a very well known/used term outside of an incredibly small group.

And that group might be looking for a story to suit their interests. I get not liking the word as it was made by the LGBTQ+ community for themselves, but it's been used pretty often for almost 2 decades. If you live in the West, you've heard it before. Specific tags can still help someone find (or avoid) particular stories.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Maybe what we really need is a Ridicule tag...

For the forums, I mean.

 

[Anonjohn20]

Maybe what we really need is a Ridicule tag...

For the forums, I mean.

That would be ridiculous! (I'm all for it, More tags!)

 

[miyoga]

Let's bring this back to the original topic then, because because it was getting ridiculous and we obviously have strong opinions on this.

Focusing on tags specifically, what would a polycule tag actually bring that the existing tags of BL/GL/anything else and adding a tag like polyamory wouldn't.

The benefits to adding polycule, based on what I see from existing stories, are miniscule and can be attained using -amory as it has larger appeal based on the first page of this thread.

I'd even be willing to say that polyamory could be somewhat described as the combination of BL/GL + romance + multiple characters. It's absolutely not perfect, but could you agree with this statement.

 

[Anonjohn20]

what would a polycule tag actually bring that the existing tags of BL/GL/anything else and adding a tag like polyamory wouldn't.

Aren't you supposedly a teacher? This needed a question mark, not a period. As for the question, simple, adding both tags could help fans that want to see a polycule form of polyamory find it while those who prefer a harem form of polyamory could avoid the polycule. The same argument you've used againt polycules could be used to invalidate polyamory with someone going, "Why do we need polyamory when polygamy and polyandry already exists? Polyamory is just too niche of a term."

The benefits to adding polycule, based on what I see from existing stories, are miniscule and can be attained using -amory...

If the benefits could be measured in numbers, and there was a 1% benefit and a 0% drawback then what's the harm of adding it. LOL

... as it has larger appeal based on the first page of this thread.

That is so subjective, though. If the only thing that mattered was mass appeal, then this site would only need two tags/categories: litrpg and cultivation/xinxia/wuxia (sorry for grouping those; it's kind of like how there are different kinds of NTR, but it's still NTR). Those two amass a wider fanbase than all the other ones (to my lament, cultivations usually suck).

I'd even be willing to say that polyamory could be somewhat described as the combination of BL/GL + romance + multiple characters. It's absolutely not perfect, but could you agree with this statement.

No, polyamory could be heterosexual in nature; it's not a combination of GL and BL. A traditional Islamic harem or Mormon harem is a form of polyamory, and there is no same-sex action there (in theory). Some "open relationships" are "open" for only one partner and not the other partner.

 

[miyoga]

Dude, drop the beef. We've been called out on it and I was trying to bring it back to civil discourse and discuss the advantages of adding one or the other. I'm all for both, but I see a lot of redundancy in having both that we don't get to the same degree with other tags.

As you've said, the largest-use tags are litrpg, cultivation/xianxia/wuxia (they are often used together, so no worries about the grouping thing) and smut (again, just grouping because there can be overlap). Here's the problem with polycules and why polyamory works better: A polycule could be heterosexual just as easily as it is homosexual in nature. It's not a Greek or Roman orgy where everyone's doing everyone, it's a "I'm comfortable with this, but you do you and we'll all be together" thing. In a way, it's more like a post-modern take on a harem. With a harem, traditionally, the man takes a wife and is only able to take another wife if the first is agreeable to it. If the first wife does not approve of the other woman, then it doesn't happen (in modern times, ancient times would be "man says so is"). It's more of a business transaction than it is romance. Mormonism is similar in that there isn't necessarily any love between the wives other than for the husband.

Polyandry and polygamy are both flavors of polyamory, but are also exclusive of romance between the primary person and each individual. Polycules are primarily used in LGBT+ novels and typically don't contain hetero matches, but are open to the possibility in the form of bi-amorous members of the polycule and that's something that isn't accounted for in the tags currently or with a polycule tag. Polyamory would include that dynamic naturally as all members are romantically involved with each other, but still leave the option for bi-amorous members to explore in an open relationship without the fear of losing everything (leave your husband as a mormon, you're out of the church if my understanding and recollection aren't wrong...I'm not mormon and have no idea what the actual rules are beyond the absolute basics).

 

[Anonjohn20]

I see a lot of redundancy in having both that we don't get to the same degree with other tags.

There's no redundancy in the fact that we have both harem and polygamy, or that we have reverse harem and polygyny, or that we have adult, josei, and seinen, or that we have school life and academy, or that we have cheating, affair, and adultery, or that we have fantasy and fantasy world, or that we have hypnotism and mind control, or that we have mature, smut, and R-18, or that we have apocalypse and post-apocalyptic...?

A polycule could be heterosexual just as easily as it is homosexual in nature. It's not a Greek or Roman orgy where everyone's doing everyone

What you just described is not a polycule (it is, however, one of the many forms of polyamory; see that there is a difference). In a polycule, there isn't everyone x everyone; there is a mash of multiple relationships, each with their own sets of boundaries. "A" might be sleeping with "B", "C" and "D," but while "B" and "C" are also sleeping together regardless of whether "A" is there, "D" has no interest in "B" or "C." "C" might also have an "E" that doesn't get shared with "A" or "B."

Polyandry and polygamy are both flavors...

Incorrect again, polygamy is a blanket term to cover both polyandry (reverse harem) and polygyny (harem), while they can be polyamorous, they are as you said above, "more of a business transaction than it is romance." You are confusing polygamy with polygyny.

 

[JayMark]

Soon we will have 400 different words for the same thong that has a different color and it is getting damn annoying for regular minds to keep track of.

What are you really trying to say here?
Why are you keeping track of thongs?
I thought your thing was socks.

Dude, drop the beef.

 

[miyoga]

Apologies on the polygyny-polygamy mix up, just like the grouping thing, the connotation is stuck in my head that -gamy = "multiple wives". I think that's what this is getting down to, as well: connotations.

The connotation for polycule, as far as I'm aware, is basically gay/lesbian throuple+ romance where people are free to swing within (or without) the group as desired and within specific boundaries set by all members of the polycule. Polyamory, then connotes as being open relationships both heterogeneous and homogeneous in origin but does not contain any mutually exclusive partnerships and otherwise has no hard-set boundaries.

That connotation of being (almost) exclusively gay/lesbian in origin and having 3 or more people almost says that it wouldn't be used. Polyamory is more inclusive and would get more use based on the connotations associated with it. It also doesn't fit quite right as a genre, though, either. If it did, then I'd be 100% on your side of adding both, just like we've got all the different tags that fall under the smut genre.

The other option is that neither gets added, which would be a shame as there is definitely a hole that needs to be filled (giggity).

 

[Anonjohn20]

The other option is that neither gets added

The option the mods choose after laughing at us both and probably locking the thread.

 

[miyoga]

The option the mods choose after laughing at us both and probably locking the thread.

I'm imagining Tony laughing maniacally going "Yes. Dance, my puppets. DANCE!"