Polycule tag

[SternenklarenRitter]

While we already have polygamy, polyandry, and "harem-seeking protagonist" tags, we do not have a polycule tag. I have seen a fair number of polycules in stories lately, and the social dynamics seem different enough that having a distinct tag may be warranted. Any thoughts on this?

 

[Empress_Omnii]

I think polygamy works just as well as polycule would. Not sure there is enough of a distinction to warrant a different tag.

Unless I'm forgetting something, the two seem similar enough to not need both.

 

[Corty]

First time I ever heard of this word and we need to stop creating sub-folders in sub-folders of sub-folders to hide our porn folks.

Just use harem/polygamy when multiple people are married as a group project and use orgy when they all go at it. Soon we will have 400 different words for the same thong that has a different color and it is getting damn annoying for regular minds to keep track of.

 

[Cipiteca396]

I think polygamy works just as well as polycule would. Not sure there is enough of a distinction to warrant a different tag.

Unless I'm forgetting something, the two seem similar enough to not need both.

Polygamy is a marriage, basically a religious thing. Some very nasty implications involved, just like harem, though not necessary.
Polycule is a pun/metaphor for a polyamorous relationship, which doesn't necessarily involve marriage.

Any thoughts on this?

We definitely need a distinct tag. I'd prefer polyamory over polycule, but when that one got suggested it got shot down hard by some unfriendly people... It's unfortunate, but I think the same thing will happen here.

Edit: Oh wait, the polyamory one is in the positives now. That means polycule probably isn't needed, if polyamory gets added instead.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Was thinking Polyamory would make more sense than Polycule (and thought we already had polyamory)

 

[miyoga]

Polyamory would definitely be the way to go on this one. Polygamy and harem have too many negative connotations associated with them and polycule is too niche to be widely useful.

 

[velvetvertigo]

I agree. Polyamory tag would be a really great addition!

 

[Succubiome]

Edit: Oh wait, the polyamory one is in the positives now. That means polycule probably isn't needed, if polyamory gets added instead.

Polyamory tag was already at +15 votes a year and a half ago when I tagged Tony on it-- it just had a brief negative spike at the beginning.

 

[velvetvertigo]

Is there a pool or something to vote? What does it mean that polyamory has +15 votes? :)

 

[Kamael89]

Hmm, this is the first time I've heard polycule terms.

 

[Dec]

Is there a pool or something to vote? What does it mean that polyamory has +15 votes? :)

It means this;

Each thread in this forum has a voting option on the right (or below, if on mobile) of the first post. You can cast your vote here.

No, reactions are not votes. Those are two different, independent things.

 

[Anonjohn20]

I think polygamy works just as well as polycule would. Not sure there is enough of a distinction to warrant a different tag.

The difference is that in polygamy it's focused on one person in the center with multiple spouses (polygyny if it is one male with many wives or polyandry if it is one female with many husbands); it's a harem. While in polycules, there is a mix and match of relationships, maybe a guy with multiple wives, but one of his wives is also in a relationship that the husband is not a part of. Even more confusing is that all the terms I've talked about in this paragraph are different forms of polyamory.

For example, in Intimancer, the "straight" male MC dates a bisexual human woman who is also in a lesbian relationship with a dwarf; the MC had a harem of his human wife, elf wife, and succubus wife, while the human wife had the MC, the elf, the succubus, and the dwarf. Since MC didn't touch the dwarf and the dwarf didn't touch the succubus. The term "polygamy" doesn't fit, while "polycule" does.

Other series like Monster Breeder and A New Kind of Grind also portray relationships that don't fit polygamy.

Polyamory would definitely be the way to go on this one. Polygamy and harem have too many negative connotations associated with them and polycule is too niche to be widely useful.

Tags are supposed to be niche; maybe some readers love "polyandry" (woman with many lovers) but hate "polygyny" (man with many lovers) or vice versa, which makes the terms "polygamy" (person with undefined gender marrying many lovers) and "polyamory" (person of undefined gender in relationship with many lovers, may or may not involve marriage) too much of a blanket term. The tags are meant to make it easier to find stories you like and avoid stories you'd dislike.

I don't mind more tags as long as it's clearly defined when to use them.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

maybe some readers love "polyandry" (woman with many lovers)

reverse harem

but hate "polygyny" (man with many lovers)

harem

The difference is that in polygamy it's focused on one person in the center with multiple spouses (polygyny if it is one male with many wives or polyandry if it is one female with many husbands); it's a harem. While in polycules, there is a mix and match of relationships, maybe a guy with multiple wives, but one of his wives is also in a relationship that the husband is not a part of. Even more confusing is that all the terms I've talked about in this paragraph are different forms of polyamory.

For example, in Intimancer, the "straight" male MC dates a bisexual human woman who is also in a lesbian relationship with a dwarf; the MC had a harem of his human wife, elf wife, and succubus wife, while the human wife had the MC, the elf, the succubus, and the dwarf. Since MC didn't touch the dwarf and the dwarf didn't touch the succubus. The term "polygamy" doesn't fit, while "polycule" does.

Other series like Monster Breeder and A New Kind of Grind also portray relationships that don't fit polygamy.


Tags are supposed to be niche; maybe some readers love "polyandry" (woman with many lovers) but hate "polygyny" (man with many lovers) or vice versa, which makes the terms "polygamy" (person with undefined gender marrying many lovers) and "polyamory" (person of undefined gender in relationship with many lovers, may or may not involve marriage) too much of a blanket term. The tags are meant to make it easier to find stories you like and avoid stories you'd dislike.

I don't mind more tags as long as it's clearly defined when to use them.

I think some tags are simply redundant or TOO niche. I also think polycule sounds retarded as fuck and no one even knows what it is. With that out of the way, Polyamory is ok, I won't mind it. But the problem is it has 20+ upvotes, and it still has not been added. For a very long time SH didn't have superheroes tag, and when someone pointed it out it didn't get a lot of upvotes but Tony added it.

Implemented - Add a superhero tag

please i beg you. Theres tons of dc and marvel fanfic and also ORIGINALS. I'll love you forever cmon man do me this solid. tony cmon I'm an og cmon I remember when you had me go on a tea site to figure out why scribble hub wouldn't work on my highschools wifi cmon.

forum.scribblehub.com

Tony doesn't think those tags are needed, persuade him better.

 

[Anonjohn20]

reverse harem
harem

I'd argue that "reverse harem" is more made up than polyandry. "Polyandry" has been around since the 1680s, while "reverse harem" only exists thanks to modern anime.

As for polygamy vs. harem. Polygamy was the Greek term also used in the West. Harem is an Islamic term that, while it did exist for a long time in history, is only used in the West thanks to modern anime as well.

I also think polycule sounds retarded as fuck and no one even knows what it is.

It's a relatively new term, only having been around since 2010. It exists because some relationships don't fit the mold of polygamy.

Tony doesn't think those tags are needed, persuade him better.

Fair.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I'd argue that "reverse harem" is more made up than polyandry. "Polyandry" has been around since the 1680s, while "reverse harem" only exists thanks to modern anime.

Yeah. For a sister(daughter? brother?) site to Novel Updates that hosts translations of Japanese, Korean, and Chinese novels, reverse harem is more suitable. Same as how isekai is more suitable than portal fatnasy. If we were having this discussion in a new writing site that has no ties to other sites, I would've agreed with you. But the fact of the matter NU influences people on SH a lot. Not SH forums, but the main site. Although SH has been influenced by crossposters from RR lately, it still has its roots in NU.

It's a relatively new term, only having been around since 2010. It exists because some relationships don't fit the mold of polygamy.

I said add polyamory. Polycule sounds retarded, polyamory doesn't.

 

[Anonjohn20]

portal fatnasy

SHHHH! You're going to attract that guy who throws temper tantrums and claims that Star Trek is an isekai. Legend says that he is still whining that amnesiac characters need to develop a completely new personality and must not, under any condition, be considered as their former selves.

I said add polyamory. Polycule sounds retarded, polyamory doesn't.

And I'm saying both tags could exist since all polycules are polyamorous, but not all polyamory is a polycule. Some viewers would really dislike an open relationship while they are okay with harems, while others would love open relationships and think harems are too restrictive.

 

[miyoga]

And I'm saying both tags could exist since all polycules are polyamorous, but not all polyamory is a polycule. Some viewers would really dislike an open relationship while they are okay with harems, while others would love open relationships and think harems are too restrictive.

That's kinda the whole point though. Polyamory includes polycule and still has broader usage and appeal. As writers, it's down to us to say "there will be this type or relationship and if you don't like it then write your own story".

While I do read a lot of stories (largely from 1 author) that involve polycules, I'd also have no problem with reading novels with tons of open relationships. The important part is that the relationships and reasoning make sense to me as a reader, and even then I could probably look past a lot of things if the story is engaging.

 

[Anonjohn20]

broader usage

Which is the opposite of what tags are for. Categories are best used for broad groupings of topics, while tags are more specific keywords that you want to use to associate related content.

Your argument that the broad usage is enough would be like someone claiming that we don't need NTR, futanari, BDSM, incest, etc. tags because there is already smut (we do need it, because I want to include stories with futas and exclude stories with NTR in my search). There's no need to get any more specific. I guess we also don't need tags like BL, GL, harem-seeking protagonist, enemies become lovers, master-servant relationships, etc. since romance already exists. We don't need dungeons, monsters, animal characteristics, dragons, etc. since fantasy already exists.

I have a pen, and I must hold it!

 

[miyoga]

Suffixes matter here. If you look at the number of stories on this website which contain poly-romantic subplots, how many of them are polyamoric versus strictly polycules? Then we play into the history of words where polyamory is an established term used by multiple cultures over time whereas polycule is relatively unknown to society en-mass and has comparatively no linguistic history (I understand the history is there, but for argument's sake, it's a drop in the bucket compared to anything else). I absolutely agree that tags are meant to highlight niches, but there is undeniably some things that are too niche. Polycule might be used by 5 people while polyamory would be used by 500. If you can make a strong case for why we need to split hairs at that level, then I'm willing to listen.

Speaking of splitting hairs, though, even your counterpoints to what I said are relatively lacking. How many different kinks are out there? BDSM, getting cucked (or doing the cucking) and everything else that falls into the category of smut (and yes, this is a true category-level term) are all various forms of sexual fantasy that people subscribe to. Hell, for NTR, are you looking for netorare or netorase? Spell it out! Romance is another truly categorical term. So there goes another weak point you've made because we would need to know if it's traditional or what to expect from the story. Coming back to the original topic briefly, if we see polyamory, we can also reasonably assume that polycules could be involved (which I've also read stories of, 2 polycules where 1 person from each is in a romantic relationship with each other and are otherwise completely separate).

Finally your weakest point. Should we discuss high fantasy or low? Should we maybe flavor this category (again, true category-level term) with "futuristic fantasy" to get all the magic-using cyberpunk caracters their own day in the sun? Fantasy writing has become so nuanced that we need the multitudes of tags for them because that's how far they've been developed. The novel "The Ship who Sang" by the late Anne McCaffery started out as a sci-fi, spun off several series that ultimately turned into mideival dragon-centric settings where all technology was lost, created another that fetured what we could reasonably term "dwarves" (from traditional fantasy novels) living on a planet with dinosaurs and maintaining futuristic technology and collaborated on other novels where still other fantasy creatures were featured as part of your stock-standard swords-and-sorcery settings.

 

[Anonjohn20]

Speaking of splitting hairs, though, even your counterpoints to what I said are relatively lacking. How many different kinks are out there? BDSM, getting cucked (or doing the cucking) and everything else that falls into the category of smut (and yes, this is a true category-level term) are all various forms of sexual fantasy that people subscribe to. Hell, for NTR, are you looking for netorare or netorase? Spell it out! Romance is another truly categorical term. So there goes another weak point you've made because we would need to know if it's traditional or what to expect from the story. Coming back to the original topic briefly, if we see polyamory, we can also reasonably assume that polycules could be involved (which I've also read stories of, 2 polycules where 1 person from each is in a romantic relationship with each other and are otherwise completely separate).

Finally your weakest point. Should we discuss high fantasy or low? Should we maybe flavor this category (again, true category-level term) with "futuristic fantasy" to get all the magic-using cyberpunk caracters their own day in the sun? Fantasy writing has become so nuanced that we need the multitudes of tags for them because that's how far they've been developed. The novel "The Ship who Sang" by the late Anne McCaffery started out as a sci-fi, spun off several series that ultimately turned into mideival dragon-centric settings where all technology was lost, created another that fetured what we could reasonably term "dwarves" (from traditional fantasy novels) living on a planet with dinosaurs and maintaining futuristic technology and collaborated on other novels where still other fantasy creatures were featured as part of your stock-standard swords-and-sorcery settings.

Everything you just said proves that my supposedly "weak point" was correct and that we need more specific terms to search by rather than just rely on terms with broad usage. Thanks for helping me prove my point, ESL dude.