Non-underdog stories?

[ThisAdamGuy]

I've never been interested in harem stories, but I've heard people call The Celestine Chronicles "a harem story done right" so I decided to check it out.

Right off the bat, I was put off when the main character Terry was a physically fit, good looking, and confident man. Then it occured to me how weird that is, and the only reason I could think of for it was that I'm so used to reading stories where the hero starts off as an underdog and either has to prove his worth or overcome his weaknesses, that a story that doesn't do that feels wrong somehow. I get why the author wrote it that way. It makes more realistic sense for the army of women the hero collects to want to follow around a hot, confident, competent guy, and I'm guessing that women don't want to read about an ugly male love interest any more than guys want to read about an ugly female love interest. But at the same time, it feels unsatisfying from a storytelling standpoint. Of course the handsome guy gets the girl. That's how real life works. But I didn't pick up a fantasy novel to be reminded how the real world works. I want to see the hero earn his rewards and overcome challenges, becoming a better and stronger person by the end of the book.

What do you guys think? I don't know if there's a word for it, but are you interested in stories that are basically the opposite of an underdog story? Where the hero starts out with every advantage, and everything plays out more or less realistically?

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Underdog stories are done to death.
Are dragons underdogs? No, that would be a lame dragon.
I don't want lame dragons.

Ironically, usually a dragon is paired with an underdog, like in How to Train Your Dragon.

Anyway, bring back burninating the peasants.

 

[Cookiez_N_Potionz]

You can tell an underdog story without describing how the MC looks. He could think of himself as mediocre

Idk

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

Underdog stories are done to death.

You're not wrong, but I feel like underdog stories are so common because they resonate so well with their audience. No offense, but if you're the kind of person who's seeking out escapism in a fantasy world, you're probably not at the top of the social totem pole. They like underdog stories because it makes them feel like they can succeed if they work hard enough, despite what reality is constantly hammering into their skulls. Even in your typical OP power fantasy where the hero wins every fight and gets everything they want without breaking a sweat, it's not the douchey football jock who gets given god powers, it's the nerd who spends the first act getting picked on by the football jock.

Think of it like this: Spider-Man wouldn't have been so popular if Flash had been the one to get powers because comic book readers didn't relate to the jock who already had everything he wanted. Peter was the nerdy loser who got his lunch money stolen.There was a bigger gap between him and the top of the totem pole, so seeing him become Spider-Man was a way more relatable, and so a much more satisfying, story.

 

[MasterY001]

Think of it like this: Spider-Man wouldn't have been so popular if Flash had been the one to get powers because comic book readers didn't relate to the jock who already had everything he wanted. Peter was the nerdy loser who got his lunch money stolen.There was a bigger gap between him and the top of the totem pole, so seeing him become Spider-Man was a way more relatable, and so a much more satisfying, story.

There is a Marvel comic set in an AU where this actually happens. Flash becomes a villain in it, and Peter makes Doc-Ock into a hero.

And there's nothing wrong with an underdog story. It's just a genre that may have a bad name due to the number of times it's been poorly done. Other examples include fantasy isekai, absurdist satire, and traditional romance. A good story can use those genres as long as they add something to a person's reality instead of serving as shallow escapism. This also applies to the opposite of an underdog story (which is a power fantasy btw).

Personally, I try to avoid creating "heroic" underdogs like Spider-Man or Captain America since I find it unrealistic too. The main reason being I consider myself a social underdog success but I didn't get that way by being morally righteous or waiting for a miracle. It might sound cliche, but it took equal parts soul-searching, hard work, intelligence, and self-confidence for me to come out of that shell, not an act of God. A realistic underdog to me would be cunning, secretive, ambitious, and multi-layered. Not an entirely selfless hero who defends the weak since that was what they once were.

 

[sand_spark]

I'm mostly anime so i'm going to list those off but starts op stays op.
Skeleton knight in another world. I mean he does look like a skeleton but other than that.
Overlord...Also a skeleton but isekaied with an entire army, dungeon and servants.
In another world with my smart phone, phone makes op and gets more op.
Death March to the Parallel World Rhapsody, isekaied and then accidentally nukes an army with a cheat skill causing him to reach like level 300 or something in a few minutes.
In the Land of Leadale, VR gamer dies and ends up in game as her character but was ultra high level so is effectively OP, occasionally we get to meet other players that somehow ended up in game.
I liked all of those.

There was also My Instant Death Ability Is So Overpowered where OP guy is isekaied and then kills anything in his way with his OP kill people with his mind abilities.
She Professed Herself Pupil of the Wise Man OP player isekaied into a young gender bent character.
The Strongest Sage with the Weakest Crest not 100% op to begin with but he used to be 100% op so he gets there quickly.
Chillin' in Another World with Level 2 Super Cheat Powers, quickly becomes OP. Detracted by a inconsistent valuing of life like he accidentally killed her brother and couldn't even be bothered to apologize.

Farther down Farming Life in Another World? It kinda fits, MC has an OP weapon from the start but isn't really OP himself and spends almost the entire series using the OP weapon for farming.

Yes, you can have a lot of fun with OP characters regardless of if they start OP or have to build up to being OP.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Yeah, I also write those types of stories. Sometimes I want a main character that isn't like me at all. From within them, I can escape reality, and indeed, that is what Overpowered Witch was at its core. In a similar way, Vampire Princess was escaping the reality of bad parents. The parents in that story are much more loving, and the MC is a literal princess. Not every story has to be an underdog story.

 

[Zagaroth]

Underdog can be fine, but there's a lot of layers between that and the extreme far end of being born as Superman or or what ever would be a setting-appropriate equivalent. Doing a mental review of my current story and my planned ones, I tend to have a mix of advantages and disadvantages for my protagonists, but none are exactly underdogs over all.

Mordecai starts the story in a situation he can't get out of on his own, but once helped he comes with a ton of knowledge to help others and growth potential for himself, because he's done it before.
Moriko is on a path to power via religious martial disciple, but worked her way there; her parents are alchemists in a small city.
Kazue was on a path to becoming a shrine maiden before [Events]; she was always smart but showed no specific aptitude and readily got distracted, but she liked the art and singing and it gave her plenty of time to read. She chose the goddess of the moons because she thought the moon pools were pretty at night.

Fuyuko was orphaned at the age of eight, and was in a city that tends to be racists towards non-humans. OTOH, she gets adopted at the age of 14 into a much better situation socially and fiscally. But she works to become stronger; she wants to feel useful, not just cared for.
Amrydor is an orphan who knows nothing about his parentage, and is inspired by bardic tales to try to become a Champion. He's accepted as a trainee because almost everyone who applies is, but his unusual strength and height only help on the martial side of things. He still needs to prove himself to be the right sort of person to be a champion, and the judge of that is the deity he is following.

Delphi is isekai'd into the body of a young fox kit, just old enough to be able to survive by foraging and eating insects. The events leading there do give her an affinity for two unusual elements, but it's only that. Months of training bring her abilities up to the point of being only a little more dangerous than a fox her age would already be. Which is to say, not very dangerous to anyone with any sort of combat training or experience. She then becomes a wizard's familiar and is quite pleased with her situation.

I was going to go on thinking about other stories and breaking it down, but sleepy hit, so posting now, will possibly add a post later.

 

[RainyLiquid]

I like underdog stories, but I also like overpowered fantasies. I think it just depends on the writing, the character and the plot.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

Pretty much every story is an underdog story at its core. Because if your protagonist starts with the ability to overcome any and all obstacles that find them you would not have a plot.

Even stories where the protagonists have a much larger and stronger backing are in reality an underdog story. For example Star Wars The Phantom Menace, the republic and the Jedi are much larger, and have more resources than the trade federation, but in the setting of Naboo they are out matched and outgunned, requiring the protagonists to act covert to over come a larger threat.

If you look at historical fiction you find a lot of examples of conflict between forces of comparative size, but in the context of the story there still needs to be some sort of disadvantage to overcome. In Saving Private Ryan the Allied and Axis forces are roughly equally matched, but the heroes are behind enemy lines where in a microcosm they are the underdogs.

Kinds rambling now, but to clarify I think what you are looking for is not stories not about underdogs, but stories where the mc does not start of pathetic.

 

[Succubiome]

There's plenty of stories were the protagonist is super powerful or attractive or has a ton of money, it just doesn't tend to be the struggle the story is about as much, because they focus on the struggle-- deciding what to do with their power, deciding what powerful faction(s) to side with to maintain their power and move their ideals forwards, or their emotional or romantic problems, for example.

...but also I think someone powerful crushing everyone beneath them and doing whatever they want is a pretty popular theme.

I think overall "underdog to overpowered" stories and "underdog to treasured person of someone powerful" stories are much more popular than the straight up "underdog remains underdog" fiction, though-- even "overpowered remains overpowered" is probably more popular.

I feel like maybe the underdog to powerful person narrative arc is a way to onboard people without power to be able to sympathize with the protagonist, so they can then fantasize about being powerful.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Underdog was my introduction to superheroes. His movie wasn't awful but didn't live up to the cheesy glory of those short cartoons...
"The secret compartment of my ring I fill
With an Underdog super energy pill
Without which I'll grow weaker and weaker still..."

 

[BigBadBoi]

There's the underdog and there's being a pathetic doormat. People get sick of the latter so they just read about an OP MC from the getgo.

 

[Anonjohn20]

stories that are basically the opposite of an underdog story? Where the hero starts out with every advantage

OP MC are quite popular.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

I love underdogs and OP MCs. And I also love harem stories, especially when paired with isekai, but stops short of unbridled slavery and rape porn trope. But when I write, I prefer that my MC has to struggle to get to his goals.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

I've never been interested in harem stories, but I've heard people call The Celestine Chronicles "a harem story done right" so I decided to check it out.

Right off the bat, I was put off when the main character Terry was a physically fit, good looking, and confident man. Then it occured to me how weird that is, and the only reason I could think of for it was that I'm so used to reading stories where the hero starts off as an underdog and either has to prove his worth or overcome his weaknesses, that a story that doesn't do that feels wrong somehow. I get why the author wrote it that way. It makes more realistic sense for the army of women the hero collects to want to follow around a hot, confident, competent guy, and I'm guessing that women don't want to read about an ugly male love interest any more than guys want to read about an ugly female love interest. But at the same time, it feels unsatisfying from a storytelling standpoint. Of course the handsome guy gets the girl. That's how real life works. But I didn't pick up a fantasy novel to be reminded how the real world works. I want to see the hero earn his rewards and overcome challenges, becoming a better and stronger person by the end of the book.

What do you guys think? I don't know if there's a word for it, but are you interested in stories that are basically the opposite of an underdog story? Where the hero starts out with every advantage, and everything plays out more or less realistically?

I think part of what gets overlooked in this conversation is the kind of character the writer is trying to write in the first place. Some stories revolve around a "self-insert" or projection-type protagonist—usually more passive, relatable, or blank-slate—meant to serve as a stand-in for the reader. In those cases, being socially awkward or a “nerdy loser”, as you wrote in another reply, can make them more accessible.

But not every story is built around that kind of framework. Some protagonists are meant to drive the story, not just coast through it—and for many authors, especially those who were never socially rejected or awkward themselves, it's way easier to write characters who are socially capable, confident, and proactive. Not because they're trying to make a power fantasy, but because they’re writing from what they know and have lived through.

Writing a deeply dysfunctional character—especially a socially stunted one—actually takes a lot of insight, and if the author doesn’t personally relate to that experience, it’s easy to slip into caricature. So they default to characters with more social fluency, not to alienate readers, but because that's their natural storytelling voice.

Me personally, my characters tend to be socially flexible and, yeah, attractive—because that’s the lens I naturally write through. I’ve never lived the kind of deep social dysfunction or isolation that makes those “awkward loner” characters feel authentic. If I try to write someone like that, it usually comes out exaggerated, or worse, like a cartoon. So instead, I lean into what I understand: confident, emotionally articulate people who shape the world around them. Not because I think it's better—but because I can write it honestly... and many authors are like that.

 

[Corty]

In my Mad God story, my MC was "OP" but only in an "experienced" sense, and she still had close fights and even lost a few. Readers need the excitement and a bit of unpredictability, even if they know the MC will never truly lose or die.

As for actually full-on OP stories, where the MC is always strong, always on top, the story needs a different focus. Otherwise, it will be a boring snoozefest. Then it needs to focus on the reactions of others seeing the MC's powers. If the character can't grow, because they are already on top, then the others around them need to show the growth to make the story interesting. Then it needs to focus on the MC's effect on the surrounding cast and the world, and show growth that way.

That's my two cents.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Both extremes are lazy writing, imo. In an underdog story, the question isn't "will he lose" but rather "how will he prevent losing completely". Same with OP MC, where it's mostly a question of "how fast will MC win" rather than how or why.

 

[yeul_e]

I like underdog stories, just not the ones with self-pitying protagonists who succeed only because of the author's intervention.

 

[SternenklarenRitter]

For me its more about the source of conflict. For an overpowered protagonist, what kind of threat can make them struggle? The answer is nothing except themself. If they are powerful, invulnerable even, then go further and say that nothing can threaten them. Some such protagonists are still crippled by social anxiety, depression, or the memory of the one person they did not save, and raw power can't help them. I always enjoy an overpowered protagonist who is bogged down by doubt, regret and insecurity.