How hard would a power system like this scale?

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Alright, so basically I'm thinking of a litRPG-esque system wherein stats go from 1 to 12. It's gonna be an exponential increase, so for example a 6 would 8x as strong as a 3.

For simplicity's sake, I'll keep the question solely to a "strength" stat, which will determine how heavy a certain person's punch would be.

So let's say a 3 is equivalent to a human athlete by modern earth standards? How powerful would a 12 compare to this?(aside from obviously 512x)

Admittedly while I know what the numbers are gonna look like, but I don't have much idea on what it will actually do, so that's why I'm asking here. Might have to make adjustments if it happens to scale weaker/stronger than expected.

 

[Layenlml]

All might?

 

[Kenjona]

Are you trying for super human powers for strength? If your athlete is that low on the scale, that looks like super human levels is what your going for. I presume 1 is weak human, 2 is average human and children scale under 1.
Which means a 4 or 5 should be these guys depending on how you scale your STR.
https://mwolverine.com/Weight_Training_Powerlifting_Records.html
Seriously though any X equals Y times body weight will get you to where you want, just choose a top end and a bottom end of your scale and scale accordingly.

 

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

Usain Bolt, the fastes human on the planet, runs at 44,72 km/hr. I'm guessing He'd be a 3-point-something based on your numbers. A 12 would mean: (Speed of sound: 1200 km/hr) 44x512= 22.500 km/hr. 22.500/1200 = Mach 18.
Hafthor Bjornsson, the strongest man, managed to deadlift 501 kilograms in 2020, breaking a world record. A 12 would mean lifting tonnes with no effort whatsoever. Perhaps even preventing jets from moving at full throttle for a light warmup in the morning. 501x512= 256.512 KG of deadlift.
A punch is several times the kinetic force of what a human can deadlift. A kick usually ranges from 500kg to 2 tonnes of kinetic force per square centimeter, and it's scientifically proven that a kick delivers 4 times the kinetic force of a punch when the same individual does it. A person with 12 strength would atomize anything they punch, probably generating vacuums and if you go full science, a black hole on impact due to matter compression.
A sneeze would create violent winds that could pop the eardrums of everyone nearby, they would shit diamonds, and if you manage to cut their skin, they'd bleed out in an instant due to their internal pressure.

 

[LostLibrarian]

A weight lifting athlete can raise ~450 Kg.
So a 6 would be 3.5 metric tons. That's a car or two.
A level 8 would be 14 metric tons. That's a truck.
A level 12 would be 224 metric tons. That's more or less a middle-sized sailing boat as used during wars.
Same can be done for other stuff.


So while it doesn't break the world entirely (that would be like 16+ where they can lift entire buildings), you also have really strong people in the middle of the system. Like a 6 out of 12 shouldn't be too rare and they can throw cars around...

 

[Representing_Tromba]

I think that this would definitely be an easy system to explain and manage.
Here's my idea of how powerful each level would be:
1. baby 2. tween 3. strong adult 4. rhino 5. hulk 6. nuke 7. Greek demigod according to myths 8. black hole 9. the big bang 10. god 11. better god 12. the clap of my asscheeks

 

[Deleted member 58005]

I think that this would definitely be an easy system to explain and manage.
Here's my idea of how powerful each level would be:
1. baby 2. tween 3. strong adult 4. rhino 5. hulk 6. nuke 7. Greek demigod according to myths 8. black hole 9. the big bang 10. god 11. better god 12. the clap of my asscheeks

I'm sorry I laughed way too hard at number 12 xD

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Usain Bolt, the fastes human on the planet, runs at 44,72 km/hr. I'm guessing He'd be a 3-point-something based on your numbers. A 12 would mean: (Speed of sound: 1200 km/hr) 44x512= 22.500 km/hr. 22.500/1200 = Mach 18.
Hafthor Bjornsson, the strongest man, managed to deadlift 501 kilograms in 2020, breaking a world record. A 12 would mean lifting tonnes with no effort whatsoever. Perhaps even preventing jets from moving at full throttle for a light warmup in the morning. 501x512= 256.512 KG of deadlift.
A punch is several times the kinetic force of what a human can deadlift. A kick usually ranges from 500kg to 2 tonnes of kinetic force per square centimeter, and it's scientifically proven that a kick delivers 4 times the kinetic force of a punch when the same individual does it. A person with 12 strength would atomize anything they punch, probably generating vacuums and if you go full science, a black hole on impact due to matter compression.
A sneeze would create violent winds that could pop the eardrums of everyone nearby, they would shit diamonds, and if you manage to cut their skin, they'd bleed out in an instant due to their internal pressure.

Well, the deadlift was something I already knew, but that kinetic force calculation is far higher than I expected. That bleeding out part tho, well someone with a 12 are basically gauranteed to be blessed by the gods so they'll probably figure that rovlem out. For the speed I chose a linear system instead since exponential would have people casually zooming around at the speed of sound, plus speed will multiply the force of a blow as well, so at that point it'd be even worse.

A weight lifting athlete can raise ~450 Kg.
So a 6 would be 3.5 metric tons. That's a car or two.
A level 8 would be 14 metric tons. That's a truck.
A level 12 would be 224 metric tons. That's more or less a middle-sized sailing boat as used during wars.
Same can be done for other stuff.


So while it doesn't break the world entirely (that would be like 16+ where they can lift entire buildings), you also have really strong people in the middle of the system. Like a 6 out of 12 shouldn't be too rare and they can throw cars around...

Considering the start of the novel has the MC's father covering a local forest in eternal(lol) darkness as soon as they wake up, with civillians legally allowed to wield fire arms and owning the sci-fi equivalent of tanks, I don't think lifting cars would be much of a problem.
4-6 in some stats is the average combatant, have that be your average and you're a damn veteran.
6-8 in some stats would be a veteran, have that your average and you'd be around the peak for mortals
9-10 would be revered as living legends.
11-12 are basically reserved for demigods and the like.
Thankfully it's nothing too broken if I throw some science out of the window(which I should be)

I think that this would definitely be an easy system to explain and manage.
Here's my idea of how powerful each level would be:
1. baby 2. tween 3. strong adult 4. rhino 5. hulk 6. nuke 7. Greek demigod according to myths 8. black hole 9. the big bang 10. god 11. better god 12. the clap of my asscheeks

13+ Me with the eldritch being classified as 'your mom'

 

[Mysticant]

So you just skip the logarithmic scale and just go for 2x huh. I generally just go logarithmic since everyone is familiar with it and it is easily countable. Also gives more wiggle room for absurdities and middle inserts.
10: Mortal/ Kid
100/10^2: Awakened/ Average person
1000/10^3:Expert awakened/ Athlete

And such...and thus

10,000,000,000,000/10^13: Your mom's buttcheeks/ Your mom's front cheeks

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Are you trying for super human powers for strength? If your athlete is that low on the scale, that looks like super human levels is what your going for. I presume 1 is weak human, 2 is average human and children scale under 1.
Which means a 4 or 5 should be these guys depending on how you scale your STR.
https://mwolverine.com/Weight_Training_Powerlifting_Records.html
Seriously though any X equals Y times body weight will get you to where you want, just choose a top end and a bottom end of your scale and scale accordingly.

Ah, it seems I missed this, yeah I'm going for superhumans being the mid-point, with demigods being the top tier of the scale I provided.

So you just skip the logarithmic scale and just go for 2x huh. I generally just go logarithmic since everyone is familiar with it and it is easily countable. Also gives more wiggle room for absurdities and middle inserts.
10: Mortal/ Kid
100/10^2: Awakened/ Average person
1000/10^3:Expert awakened/ Athlete

And such...and thus

10,000,000,000,000/10^13: Your mom's buttcheeks/ Your mom's front cheeks

Well, I went with exponential since at the lower end it's still relatively simple and doesn't reach xianxia-levels of "my dao can bench press reality". I also wanted to add a sense of uncertainty to it so people won't be so reliant on the given scaling system(Someone with a 6 will still have to be wary with a 5 because for all they know they're at the higher end).

 

[Jemini]

Current model, it's a simple 2X scale. That's not all that hard of a power scale.

I've seen systems that go 1-10 with each increase of 1 corresponding to a 10X increase in power output. (basic log scale.)

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

Current model, it's a simple 2X scale. That's not all that hard of a power scale.

I've seen systems that go 1-10 with each increase of 1 corresponding to a 10X increase in power output. (basic log scale.)

Well, I didn't want it to be too insane, I was thinking 12 could casually rip a chunk off a mountain at best. Wanted the focus to be more on abilities than raw stats, since there will be stuff that amplifies it further.

 

[NotaNuffian]

Strength

The power to possess strength at peak human conditioning. Sub-power of Peak Human Body. Real world version of Enhanced Strength. Not to be confused with 100% Muscle Usage. The user's strength is at maximum human capacity/potential. Users with peak human strength are superior to normal members of...

powerlisting.fandom.com

I am using this vague list as a guide and seeing your power scaling level, your strength will reach around Superstrength type I and nearing type II.

Here is the explanation. I am taking strength stats at 3 is Peak Human Performance and topping off at the peak is deadlift at 500 Kg or five to six times an average male's weight.

512 times of that and you get around 26 tons.

Assuming you can punch a head clean off a person at peak human strength (quote from the site), at a superhuman level, you can topple buildings with a single punch, cause localised earthquakes with a stomp and assuming your stats also provides the secondary power of super strength like super durability, you can tank hits from AT4s and 50 calibers.

Ps. Math is wrong... it should be 256 tons. So capable of barely moving skyscrapers because Empire State is 360 tons.

 

[Kenjona]

I have one question are you trying to apply logic to this? Because once past a certain threshold, mass becomes as if, if not more important to an application of strength than the strength "score" itself. For instance someone weighing 200lbs with enough strength to cause a localized Earthquake, you can technically stomp on the ground hard enough sure, but you likely to launch yourself into the air as you cause that earthquake, for the ground as earth masses 1.317 × 10^25 lbs. versus your 200lbs. But meh superheroes.

 

[NotaNuffian]

I have one question are you trying to apply logic to this? Because once past a certain threshold, mass becomes as if, if not more important to an application of strength than the strength "score" itself. For instance someone weighing 200lbs with enough strength to cause a localized Earthquake, you can technically stomp on the ground hard enough sure, but you likely to launch yourself into the air as you cause that earthquake, for the ground as earth masses 1.317 × 10^25 lbs. versus your 200lbs. But meh superheroes.

I think you made a mistake in taking Earth's mass in order to cause that localised earthquake, instead, try take the area of effect (in circle), multiply by the depth and density of earth itself. Which is still in the millions of pounds but still acceptable.

Most super strength users' power source is not just from their muscle, but ki, magic and some mumbo BS that throws physics out the window. Otherwise the person needs to be as heavy and big as a small building to generate that much power.

Taking the densest object in the universe and have a human have the density, the human still only weighs in at 3000lbs.

 

[Kenjona]

I think you made a mistake in taking Earth's mass in order to cause that localised earthquake, instead, try take the area of effect (in circle), multiply by the depth and density of earth itself. Which is still in the millions of pounds but still acceptable.

Most super strength users' power source is not just from their muscle, but ki, magic and some mumbo BS that throws physics out the window. Otherwise the person needs to be as heavy as a small building to generate that much power.

Did not want to do the math, to tired, and hand wavium worked in this case. Just wanted to demonstrate the issue.

 

[Anon_Y_Mousse]

I have one question are you trying to apply logic to this? Because once past a certain threshold, mass becomes as if, if not more important to an application of strength than the strength "score" itself. For instance someone weighing 200lbs with enough strength to cause a localized Earthquake, you can technically stomp on the ground hard enough sure, but you likely to launch yourself into the air as you cause that earthquake, for the ground as earth masses 1.317 × 10^25 lbs. versus your 200lbs. But meh superheroes.

As mentioned "magic snort snort bs" but there's a resistance stat that basically just cancels out kinetic energy below a certain threshold. That brings in a lot more problems, but eh, I'm sure the sentient nanomachine swarm injected into people will figure that out.

 

[NotaNuffian]

As mentioned "magic snort snort bs" but there's a resistance stat that basically just cancels out kinetic energy below a certain threshold. That brings in a lot more problems, but eh, I'm sure the sentient nanomachine swarm injected into people will figure that out.

At this point you might as well bring in CN cultivation standard of calculating forces with blood flow, marrow sponges storinf energy, organs vibration and the stars aligning for them to punch above their weight class.

 

[OliviaMyriad]

This conversation reminds me of a novel I read at one point where people absorbed a thing called "red mist" and the process of using up the stored mist leaves behind residue that caused the body to mutate in a way that enhances the body's strength. To accommodate that increased strength, the "red mist" warrior's body becomes increasingly dense and heavy, and their defenses scale higher and higher as well.

They are:
- stronger (stronger muscles)
- heavier (more muscle compacted in a small area)
- more durable (red mist residue combined with super-dense body)
- faster (strength increase is more than enough to offset the burden of a heavy body)

In the first half of the novel, it's almost entirely hand-to-hand combat with weapons forged from the body parts of equally-strong beasts. The few bows and guns used have more firepower than tanks, while the users themselves are near immune to conventional weapons outside of nukes.

At this point you might as well bring in CN cultivation standard of calculating forces with blood flow, marrow sponges storinf energy, organs vibration and the stars aligning for them to punch above their weight class.

You might be joking, but I don't think a single opposing anti-kinetic force that (possibly) enables the pro-kinetic force is anywhere in the same realm as cultivation BS.

 

[NotaNuffian]

This conversation reminds me of a novel I read at one point where people absorbed a thing called "red mist" and the process of using up the stored mist leaves behind residue that caused the body to mutate in a way that enhances the body's strength. To accommodate that increased strength, the "red mist" warrior's body becomes increasingly dense and heavy, and their defenses scale higher and higher as well.

They are:
- stronger (stronger muscles)
- heavier (more muscle compacted in a small area)
- more durable (red mist residue combined with super-dense body)
- faster (strength increase is more than enough to offset the burden of a heavy body)

In the first half of the novel, it's almost entirely hand-to-hand combat with weapons forged from the body parts of equally-strong beasts. The few bows and guns used have more firepower than tanks, while the users themselves are near immune to conventional weapons outside of nukes.



You might be joking, but I don't think a single opposing anti-kinetic force that (possibly) enables the pro-kinetic force is anywhere in the same realm as cultivation BS.

Am really interested in the novel you speak of. Manipulation of the muscle strands to increase yield instead of mindlessly increase muscle growth is the way to go due to Square Cube Law, the ratio of muscle strength by cross-sectional area versus mass by volume means that in actual fact, your strength to mass ratio is plummeting.