Requesting tips for cultivation system

FieryLou

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I've always loved the xianxia cultivation genre and have wanted to write my own story. Unfortunately, I tend to overthink things. I'm not satisfied if something isn't properly explained or doesn't make sense to me. Because of this, I struggle to differentiate between Law Integration and normal elemental attacks. Is there anyone here experienced in this genre who has some tips for me?
 

RepresentingWrath

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more in the xuanhuan direction.
In that case, forget tropes, forget countless uber jade constitutions and mega elder dragons bloodlines. Make it simpler but more diverse. These guys use the most generic cultivation, those girls use some kind of body strengthening, those guys cultivate eyes like in naruto, these girls instead of generic cultivation use qi as mana and turn into witches, and so on. Make every system simple, but make them diverse, just like the world. World in Xuanhuan should be way more diverse than tropes allow it to be. You have countless possiblities in this setting.
 

Kurotsuki007

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I personally went with a Xuanhuan style cultivation for my novel that only plays a minor part. I try to follow the KISS theory on my power system.

Here is how I break it down:
1. Cultivation Stages are little more than power indicators.
-Plan out how many overall levels of power you want
2. Avoid the trope of Low-Mid-High-Perfect sub stages
-This is just word bloat to draw out a novel. If you want sub-stages keep them simple
3. Think about the power creep.
-Unless the story is about an upcoming generation of Geniuses, there needs to be less and less people of power as the power level scales.
4. How do you want the cultivation to go?
-Is the cultivation the center piece of your novel, or something that is mentioned off hand?
5. What is the cultivation based on?
-Is it based on the ambient energy in the air, or is it one of the Eastern or Western elements? Is it knowledge based or based on time?
 

Fairemont

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Law integration implies it is dao related. They are utilizing one of the laws of the universe to achieve something. This can technically apply to elements.

Something purely elemental is likely a basic thing by comparison. Most qi is element aligned. They are likely using a spell suited to one of these natures.
 

RainingFish

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I asked Grok for you.
In Chinese fantasy genres like xuanhuan, the concept of "law" (often translated from terms like 法则 [fǎzé] or 道 [dào]) is a profound and multifaceted idea rooted in Daoist philosophy, though adapted for fictional storytelling. It represents the fundamental principles or truths governing the universe, existence, or specific phenomena (e.g., elements, time, space, life, or death). Below, I’ll explore the meaning of "law" in this context, its connection to Daoism, and the distinction between attacks integrating "law" and normal elemental attacks.
Understanding "Law" in Chinese Fantasy
In xuanhuan and related genres, "law" typically refers to a cultivator’s comprehension of the underlying rules or essence of reality. These are not legal laws but metaphysical truths that govern how the universe operates. For example:
  • Cosmic Principles: Laws might govern natural elements (fire, water, wind), abstract concepts (time, space, fate), or even martial techniques (sword intent, saber law).
  • Cultivation Insight: Cultivators gain power by understanding and aligning with these laws through meditation, battles, or epiphanies. Mastering a law allows them to manipulate reality at a deeper level.
  • Hierarchy of Power: Laws are often portrayed as superior to raw energy or basic techniques. A cultivator who comprehends the "Law of Fire" can wield fire with greater precision, potency, and versatility than someone relying on basic fire-based techniques.
The reference to "10,000 ways" (万道, wàn dào) is indeed a Daoist concept, where Dao (the Way) represents the ultimate truth or origin of all things. In Daoism, the phrase "the Dao gives birth to one, one gives birth to two, two gives birth to three, and three gives birth to the ten thousand things" (from the Tao Te Ching) suggests that the Dao manifests in countless forms or "ways." In xuanhuan, this translates to the idea that there are myriad laws (e.g., Law of Fire, Law of Sword, Law of Time), each a facet of the greater Dao.
Is "Law" a Daoist Concept?
Yes, the concept of "law" in Chinese fantasy is heavily inspired by Daoist philosophy, particularly the idea of the Dao as the source of all existence and the pursuit of harmony with its principles. However:
  • Daoist Roots: In Daoism, understanding the Dao involves living in accordance with nature’s flow, achieving balance, and transcending worldly attachments. In xuanhuan, this is dramatized as cultivators actively mastering specific "laws" to gain supernatural powers.
  • Fictional Adaptation: Authors embellish the concept for narrative purposes. While Daoism emphasizes spiritual enlightenment, xuanhuan often portrays "laws" as tools for combat, world-building, or achieving immortality. For example, a cultivator might master the "Law of Space" to teleport or create pocket dimensions, a practical and flashy application not found in traditional Daoism.
  • Syncretic Influences: Xuanhuan also draws from Buddhist and Confucian ideas, as well as Chinese mythology, so "laws" may incorporate notions of karma, divine authority, or heavenly mandates, depending on the story.
Difference Between Attacks Integrating Law and Normal Elemental Attacks
In xuanhuan, attacks are often categorized by their sophistication and power, with "law"-based attacks being superior to "normal" elemental attacks. Here’s a detailed comparison:
  1. Normal Elemental Attacks:
    • Nature: These are basic techniques that harness elemental energy (e.g., fire, water, wind, lightning) through qi, spiritual energy, or martial skills.
    • Characteristics:
      • Reliant on raw power, quantity of energy, or the cultivator’s physical prowess.
      • Often straightforward, such as shooting a fireball, summoning a water wave, or creating a gust of wind.
      • Limited by the cultivator’s energy reserves and technique proficiency.
    • Example: A cultivator might use a "Blazing Fist" technique to punch with fire-coated fists, dealing damage based on the heat and force of the attack.
    • Weaknesses:
      • Predictable and easier to counter by opponents of similar or greater strength.
      • Lacks depth or versatility; the attack is what it appears to be (e.g., a fireball is just a fireball).
      • Less effective against opponents who have comprehended laws, as raw energy is inferior to conceptual mastery.
  2. Attacks Integrating Law:
    • Nature: These attacks incorporate the cultivator’s understanding of a specific "law," allowing them to manipulate the essence or rules of an element or concept.
    • Characteristics:
      • Conceptual Power: The attack leverages the fundamental principles of the element or concept. For example, an attack using the "Law of Fire" might not just burn but manipulate the essence of heat, combustion, or destruction itself.
      • Efficiency and Versatility: Law-based attacks often require less energy because they align with the universe’s rules, achieving greater effects with minimal effort. They can also take unexpected forms (e.g., fire that burns without fuel or ignores defenses).
      • Superiority: Attacks infused with law are qualitatively different, often bypassing conventional defenses. For instance, a "Law of Fire" attack might incinerate an opponent’s water shield by overriding the "Law of Water."
    • Example: A cultivator who has comprehended the "Law of Fire" might use a technique like "Eternal Flame of the Void," which creates a fire that burns through space itself, ignores physical barriers, or persists until the cultivator wills it to stop.
    • Weaknesses:
      • Requires deep comprehension, which takes time, talent, or fortuitous encounters to achieve.
      • May be countered by opponents with a stronger grasp of the same or opposing laws (e.g., "Law of Ice" vs. "Law of Fire").
  3. Key Distinctions:
    • Depth of Understanding: Normal elemental attacks rely on surface-level manipulation of energy, while law-based attacks reflect a profound understanding of the element’s essence or the universe’s rules.
    • Power Scaling: Law-based attacks are often portrayed as a hallmark of higher cultivation realms, used by advanced cultivators to dominate weaker opponents who rely on raw energy.
    • Narrative Role: In xuanhuan, mastering a law is a milestone in a cultivator’s journey, symbolizing their growth and proximity to the Dao. Normal attacks are mundane by comparison, used by lower-tier characters or as a baseline for progression.
    • Visual and Thematic Flair: Law-based attacks are often described with grandiose, abstract imagery (e.g., "a sword slash that cuts through fate itself"), emphasizing their mystical and philosophical weight, while normal attacks are more grounded and physical.
Examples from Xuanhuan
To illustrate, consider popular xuanhuan novels:
  • In I Shall Seal the Heavens by Er Gen, characters comprehend "Daos" or laws (e.g., the Dao of Time) to create techniques that manipulate reality, far surpassing basic elemental spells.
  • In Coiling Dragon by I Eat Tomatoes, the "Laws of the Elements" (e.g., Earth, Wind) are mastered in stages, with each level of comprehension unlocking more potent abilities, like altering gravity or creating sonic attacks.
  • In Martial World, laws like the "Law of Space" allow characters to teleport or compress space, contrasting with basic attacks like throwing a spear infused with fire qi.
Conclusion
In Chinese fantasy like xuanhuan, "law" is a Daoist-inspired concept representing the fundamental truths of the universe, adapted into a narrative device for power and progression. Attacks integrating "law" differ from normal elemental attacks in their conceptual depth, efficiency, and supremacy, reflecting a cultivator’s mastery of universal principles. While normal attacks manipulate energy at a surface level, law-based attacks harness the essence of elements or concepts, aligning with the Dao and enabling reality-defying feats. The "10,000 ways" motif underscores the diversity of these laws, each a path to power within the boundless framework of the Dao.
 

Spacerunner357

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I've always loved the xianxia cultivation genre and have wanted to write my own story. Unfortunately, I tend to overthink things. I'm not satisfied if something isn't properly explained or doesn't make sense to me. Because of this, I struggle to differentiate between Law Integration and normal elemental attacks. Is there anyone here experienced in this genre who has some tips for me?
I am vary experienced, can you ask me questions so I can Give you better tips
 

expentio

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A cultivation story whose system I found very intriguing was a post-apocalypse, with zombies. Both zombies, magical beasts, and some humans could gain elemental powers that would allow them to use a certain kind of magic, sometimes with even extremely exotic effects and things that may benefit their group. Like a plant-based affinity allows to grow crops for the base. It was also a factor that they had different usefulness. Fire and lightning were better for combat than water or plants.
The special feature was that zombies, beasts, and superpowered people would form a crystal inside their heads. Now they were hunting each other and could use the crystals to gain power. They could either gather an unreasonable mass of crystals or, far better, use a number of crystals of their respective element (or a mix of these), to reach the next power rank (1-9). Therefore, there was a lot of crystal trading to gain power, and the highest ranks became leaders. Of course, rank 1 crystals didn't cut it for rank 6, no matter the element at exponential cost increase.
I liked the way a female MC was a zombie who regained consciousness and even started to gain a certain level of control over the hordes. It even got interesting when there were high-ranking zombie lords who acted like sentient beasts. The difference to the human MC was that they acted more on instincts and routines. Suddenly, there was a little girl who turned out to be the strongest monster in the area, controlling hordes upon hordes, but could be appeased by showing some motherly kindness that it was missing.

Yet then the story took a turn for the worse, when the MC started killing children to make a point to their antagonistic father.
Also, it had the usual Xianxia illness that people from a lower rank aren't just weaker than the next higher rank, but for some stupid reason basically chanceless. Higher ranks can dodge invisible attacks in their sleep, win against opposing elements, and shrug off any kind of attack that isn't coming from a high rank. I'd seriously beg you not to fall into this. Got enough of this in "Sapience".

Who knows, maybe this system could be used. Could also be mutants, or anything else that holds the crystals.
 

NotaNuffian

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I have nothing to offer and will be stealing from this thread.

Nasty joke aside, I think you need to first understand the limits of each ranks first

Cultivations within the novels are often hierarchy based, which is why MC is the biggest cheat of them all.

The same goes with Law Intergration versus normal elemental attacks.

Going just by the name, it can be understood that the former is alot stronger and more sophisticated than the latter.

Law/ Dao/ Rule or even Pinnacle pretty much means a OP IMBA power. Take fire, what is its peak? Could be burning all to nothingness, could be giving life through warmth.

Whereas normal is just... normal.

Also Law has tons more selection whereas normal is just the usual four.
 

Fairemont

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Usual four? Four!?

1000006737.jpg

This ain't some Naruto four element bullshit up in this Dao. We got five elements like any self-respecting cultivators.
 
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NotaNuffian

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Tbh ATLA gave a sort of good rankings.

Same as Mushoku.

Air, Water, Earth and Fire is basic.

Everything else is either an amalgamation or stronger version.

Also, Healing Magic should be rare but not too rare. Rare enough to be important but not too rare until most characters are from Game of Thrones.
 

Fairemont

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Non non non! You cant write a xianxia story like that!
 

NotaNuffian

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At this point, I just think that cultivation is just chinese magic with a ton of chinese history fluff.

So fml.
Usual four? Four!?

View attachment 38475
This ain't some Naruto four element bullshit up in this Dao. We got five elements like any self-respecting cultivators.
Also, metal and wood but air goes bye bye? What are we, some sort of erectile joke?
 

Fairemont

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Well, yeah. That's exactly what it is, so it avoid at least follow the scheme rather than, say, Japanese elements or an Americanized/Western version.
 

RodOfRemorse

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Also, metal and wood but air goes bye bye? What are we, some sort of erectile joke?
Chinese 'Elements' / Wuxing was first translated into English as "the Five Elements", drawing parallels with the Greek and Indian Vedic static, solid or formative arrangement of the four elements. This translation is still in common use, but this analogy could be misleading as the four elements are concerned with form, substance and quantity, whereas the arrangement of the wuxing are primarily concerned with qualities that undergo change.

At its most base state, the Five elements represent the planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn from brightest to dimmest from the Sun. So the Chinese aren't Elementalists (they're Astrology girls).
 

NotaNuffian

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Chinese 'Elements' / Wuxing was first translated into English as "the Five Elements", drawing parallels with the Greek and Indian Vedic static, solid or formative arrangement of the four elements. This translation is still in common use, but this analogy could be misleading as the four elements are concerned with form, substance and quantity, whereas the arrangement of the wuxing are primarily concerned with qualities that undergo change.

At its most base state, the Five elements represent the planets Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn from brightest to dimmest from the Sun. So the Chinese aren't Elementalists (they're Astrology girls).
Tell that to most CN I read.

Because most the times they are literal on the elements.

With metal being good swordsman because pew pew getsuga tensho sword wave and fire being good fire user aka pillmaker to blacksmith etc.

Wood is love, Wood is life.

Water and Earth go bye bye.
 

Arch9CivilReactor

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Remember to plan the story in a way that each ‘cultivation stage’ interacts with the other. I mean the user’s specifically. So many novels decide that every time the MC improves, that’s when you finally introduce a stronger individual. The story isn’t organic if done that way.

Cultivation stages are just power levels regardless of how you name them. The meat of the story will come from a vibrant world rather than introducing new punching bags.
 

NotaNuffian

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Ehm, here is a piece of advice.

Please do not have the entire cultivation route paved out from the get go.

As in, you can hint about the possible names of those destinations but never tell the readers that you have the route and everything ready to go.

Because it turns the whole thing into a waiting game/ ghost trainride unless you are sprinkling heavy amounts of action along the way.
 

Fairemont

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You willingly regret making the leap between each realm so great that they cannot compete since it will frequently render all your cast useless.
 
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