Would Historical Fiction be considered Historical Fanfic?

[Representing_Tromba]

I'm tweaking out. I don't care for the semantics of it. I'm just saying it's not fanfiction because it's not fanfiction, as the rules for all language and communication are inevitably revealed arbitrary you can do whatever the fuck you want. But me personally? I'm going to go by the way it's supposed to be used for works which do not construct themselves solely on the ip of the writer themselves, and that do so in a poor manner that is both unauthorized and unrecognized by the author. If there are exceptions in quality to a fanfiction, they are merely good or well written fanfiction, it doesn't remove the other aspects it's considered a defining feature. Webnovels being amateurish is comparing apples to oranges, a webnovel based on a self-made ip will never be a fanfiction, it can be insulted to being of low or equal quality to one but will never be.

My only real complaint with this is that it's not a fun discussion it's just aggravating, imagine someone says that a story is dogshit, and people start assigning stories which have x and y in them as being dogshit. Indulging this thinking the way you have is calling something with w and z dogshit by association of having letters in the alphabet.

Spoiler: Sources

Fan fiction - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Definition of FAN FICTION

stories involving popular fictional characters that are written by fans and often posted on the Internet —called also fanfic… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

I am genuinely sorry that this is not a fun discussion. It's sole purpose was to discuss a concerning thought about the overlap of the official definitions. Though I knew it would be a hot topic, despite the brain rot thought process of the question itself.

Though I think there has been a great misunderstanding. I have come to understand your argument for historical fiction not being fanfiction due to copyright laws playing a key part in their conception. However, I never said that webnovels and fanfiction were the same. As you said, one uses already licensed IPs while the other does not. My comparison came from where you stated that fanfiction was defined as amateurish, which only the Wikipedia links referred to it as "typically written in an amateur capacity." The definition I posted at the beginning of the thread came from the Oxford dictionary as you have used the merriam-webster dictionary and both are pretty similar. Neither define it as amateurish. Webnovels, although using their own OCs and world, are also typically written in an amateur capacity but are not defined in this manner as fanfiction isn't either. This does not apply to all webnovels just as it does not apply to all fanfiction.

In short, you have answered my question about historical fiction and it need not be debated further. Though I cannot agree that quality of writing is a defining trait of any genre or medium. There are good and bad writers in all spaces.

 

[Rezcore]

It depends on how you define "fanfiction." If you take a broad view, historical fiction and fanfiction share similarities: both involve writing stories set in an established world with real or fictional characters. Historical fiction reimagines real people and events, much like fanfiction reinterprets characters and settings from existing works.

However, traditional definitions of fanfiction usually tie it to modern intellectual property—stories based on books, movies, or shows, often written by fans outside the official canon. Historical fiction, on the other hand, is typically seen as a distinct genre rooted in real-world events rather than a specific fictional universe.

That said, some historical fiction does resemble fanfiction—especially when it speculates on personal lives or interactions of historical figures. You could argue that novels about Cleopatra, Napoleon, or Anne Boleyn that add fictionalized details to their lives are akin to fanfiction in spirit.

Would you consider something like *The Other Boleyn Girl* or *Wolf Hall* a form of fanfiction for Tudor history?

This is the definitive answer

 

[beast_regards]

That said, some historical fiction does resemble fanfiction—especially when it speculates on personal lives or interactions of historical figures. You could argue that novels about Cleopatra, Napoleon, or Anne Boleyn that add fictionalized details to their lives are akin to fanfiction in spirit.

Vast majority of the so-called "historical" novels (and movies) are the dramatic retelling loosely inspired by historical events, i.e. re-imagination or adaptation.

Same as fan-fiction.

Only difference between them and the actual fan-fiction is budget, and legality. Budget is self-explanatory.

From a legal perspective, no one owns the copyright to the life story of Napoleon, but the individual re-interpretation is copyright protected.

There isn't much difference between me retelling the story of Napoleon, and me retelling the Call of Cthulhu (I see the crossover potential already)

It doesn't mean that no one would try to stop me from doing it.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I am genuinely sorry that this is not a fun discussion. It's sole purpose was to discuss a concerning thought about the overlap of the official definitions.

I don't think there is any overlap unless you talk with retards or joke about it. Everybody know what fanfiction is. No one normal will call, for example, Arthurian Tales a fanfiction, nor will they say it about religious texts.

Also, language evolves. For some reason retards don't argue about usage of the word faggot even though its original meaning isn't offensive. Yet the moment it's not something they can get cancelled for, the tapeworm in their assess start moving and they have to argue over definitions of words. They have to say that portal fantasy and isekai is the same thing. Or that every work in existence is a fanfiction of that one original work told by a caveman. No it's fucking not. Fanfiction might not be a modern term but the definition has long ago changed. If you can't keep up, I would kindly ask you to use other old definitions for words, and use those words when necessery, as I mentioned before, words such as faggot.

 

[Deleted member 266]

Isn't lasagna just cake made of meat?
Isn't viennetta just lasagna made of ice-cream?
Isn't a sandwich just viennetta made of bread and filling?

What is man?
What is featherless biped?

What is a chair?

 

[AnonUnlimited]

Is yu-gi-oh a fanfic of ancient egypt?

 

[LilRora]

I am genuinely sorry that this is not a fun discussion. It's sole purpose was to discuss a concerning thought about the overlap of the official definitions. Though I knew it would be a hot topic, despite the brain rot thought process of the question itself.

It was a fun discussion to me until a certain person came with "tiktok level brainrot".

This whole thing can be boiled down to a similar issue there is with law - whether the spirit of the law is more important than the word of the law (here definition) - and it's a perfectly reasonable topic because, like most issues in that vein, they are very subjective and tend to change with time and environment. The point of the discussion is to learn what other people think and perhaps try to reach a middle ground or define some arbitrary but majorly supported boundaries. Or not, could just be a fun, casual mental exercise. Or whatever, maybe just without poorly veiled insults directed at people with differing views. You have nothing to be sorry for.

To expand on my previous post, I don't think the definitions overlap meaningfully, at least those you provided, since historical fiction specifically mentions it is a reconstruction of the past. In specific cases, however, it's easy to argue that historical fiction can be a fanfiction (eg. a historical novel based on second-hand memories and recollections, which is actually fairly common, for example among WW2 stories), with emphasis on can be, which means something completely different than is since it describes a singular instance, not historical fiction as a whole. To rectify this, a new definition could be created to fit stories that fit both definitions, but one could do that indefinitely with each next similar issue and get lost in the impractical detail and rigidity of each next iteration - that is why we stop at some point and accept some levity in definitions, which in turn creates discussions like this one.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

Is yu-gi-oh a fanfic of ancient egypt?

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Is yu-gi-oh a fanfic of ancient egypt?

Yu-gi-oh started out as a one-shot Pokemon parody using cards instead of giant marbles to contain the monsters. It sold so well, they made a second issue parodying the role-playing gamers at the comic shop as characters in the book. They managed to get four books out - all of which sold out completely - as an "in-house" book (at least according to a guy I know who hung out at the comic store where it was created) - before a major publisher contacted them about making it an ongoing series ... and publishing an actual game to go with it.
They found the game much harder to do, as they had not had any intentions of continuing past two issues when they wrote it!
Parts of it were drawn from Egyptian mythology, parts from several other myths, and other parts made up wholesale.

I don't think there is any overlap unless you talk with retards or joke about it. Everybody know what fanfiction is. No one normal will call, for example, Arthurian Tales a fanfiction, nor will they say it about religious texts.

Actually, I have a collection of Arthurian "fan-fiction" (a lot of it more specifically Madreunt/Mordred fan fiction) - from the introduction, it was the second volume in a three volume set (one focused on Camulod/Camelot, one on the various heroes of the cycle, and the other was just in the draft stages at the time I picked up the second).
For that matter, some of the actual Arthurian tales WERE "fan fiction" of the time, that tied characters from otherwise unconnected parts of the British isles or even other countries to the court of Artorius Pendraeg.

 

[Deleted member 266]

Would Historical Fiction be considered Historical Fanfic?

I think, if you accept that all fiction is fanfiction of reality, than yes.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

I think, if you accept that all fiction is fanfiction of reality, than yes.

I have to disagree - some fiction is a REJECTION of reality, the reverse of FAN fiction...

 

[Deleted member 266]

I have to disagree - some fiction is a REJECTION of reality, the reverse of FAN fiction...

Ah~ my good sir, surely you have to agree that all fan fiction is in it own way a rejection of the source material(the reality if you will), as the source materials have "ended" the story, were the fanfiction add more story where there was none, thus a rejection of what is "real".

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Ah~ my good sir, surely you have to agree that all fan fiction is in it own way a rejection of the source material(the reality if you will), as the source materials have "ended" the story, were the fanfiction add more story where there was none, thus a rejection of what is "real".

Not at all - the "fan" part, granted short for "fanatic" implies an affection for the subject matter. A lot of fan fiction DOES reject one or more aspects of the source, but it fully embraces the rest as an act of love (or it becomes a parody, mocking the source material, which can be an act of love or of spite).

 

[Deleted member 266]

Not at all - the "fan" part, granted short for "fanatic" implies an affection for the subject matter. A lot of fan fiction DOES reject one or more aspects of the source, but it fully embraces the rest as an act of love (or it becomes a parody, mocking the source material, which can be an act of love or of spite).

I well be honest with you, I don't really know where I was going with that.

 

[ZombieHat]

Fanfiction Definition: Fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, movie, etc.

Historical fiction definition: The genre of literature, film, etc., comprising narratives that take place in the past and are characterized chiefly by an imaginative reconstruction of historical events and personages.

If historical fantasy is fanfiction then I have learned that I am a fanfiction author.

Spoiler: Additional question for one person who is tagged

@SailusGebel how does this affect your thread on fanfiction?

I think the only way it would be Fanfic is if you were using a historical character made up by someone in the past, i.e. Frankenstein, Dracula, Bible characters, Grimm fariytales, the Canterbury tales, and such. Otherwise, it's just a historical fiction.

 

[Lysander_Works]

If a fly flies away, does that make it a flew?

 

[JamesCC]

Fanfiction Definition: Fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, movie, etc.

Historical fiction definition: The genre of literature, film, etc., comprising narratives that take place in the past and are characterized chiefly by an imaginative reconstruction of historical events and personages.

If historical fantasy is fanfiction then I have learned that I am a fanfiction author.

Spoiler: Additional question for one person who is tagged

@SailusGebel how does this affect your thread on fanfiction?

Ah, but of course! If one is to accept that historical fantasy constitutes a form of fanfiction, then it follows that all who partake in its craft are, by the most erudite definition, fanfiction authors of the highest order. To weave an intricate tapestry of narrative from the threads of antiquity, embellishing the stark fabric of history with the gilded embroidery of the fantastical, is, indeed, no different in essence from those who breathe new life into the characters of beloved fiction.

If one dares to suggest that such an endeavor is lesser, let them first recall that the great Homer himself did naught but compose elaborate epics of warriors and deities whose deeds were but exaggerated echoes of mortal recollection. Were the Bard of Avon himself among us, might he not scoff at the notion that his "Histories" were anything but the grandest of fanfiction, written to amuse and instruct, to entertain and immortalize?

Thus, dear writer, you find yourself in esteemed company. To reimagine the past, to lend it depth and enchantment beyond the constraints of mere mortal record, is a noble pursuit. If that be fanfiction, then let the term be worn as a badge of honor, for history itself is but the most enduring of all stories—one that begs to be retold.

 

[DireBadger]

Nope. Fanfiction is mostly defined by the fact that it is only protectedd by 'fair use' laws.

Historical fiction using known celebrity characters is better defined as alternate history or 'dramatic license'. Writing a religious figure as a superhero might get your head cut off, but it won't be fanfic.

 

[Navillus]

I vote yes-nya~

 

[Kara_dija]

Fanfiction Definition: Fiction written by a fan of, and featuring characters from, a particular TV series, movie, etc.

Historical fiction definition: The genre of literature, film, etc., comprising narratives that take place in the past and are characterized chiefly by an imaginative reconstruction of historical events and personages.

If historical fantasy is fanfiction then I have learned that I am a fanfiction author.

Spoiler: Additional question for one person who is tagged

@SailusGebel how does this affect your thread on fanfiction?

As someone who's writing historical fiction. I'm about to loose myself in a dreadful spiral ?