So many pointless Isekai

PancakesWitch

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Yeah they're all very pointless in that regard, isekai is mostly used for a "fresh restart" leaving behind their original world and not caring about it ever again, usually embracing the new world's customs however wicked they might be made for plot convenience (like making slaves everywhere and you can buy them for the price of a stale bread and get yourself a waifu and soldiers easily, for some reason lmao)
 

ElijahRyne

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Not all isekai are bad but so many either don't utilize the advantages of modern knowledge or just erase the character's memory so that he doesn't have the benefit of his knowledge. Many isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert.

Someone from the modern world has the advantage of learning math (at least basic math), should have basic critical thinking skills, understand the importance of networking, be willing to learn reading and writing of the new world, understand the basics of economics (even if its usually just microeconomics), and possibly have personal skills from a hobby (like a sport such as fencing, a science like chemistry, or an art like drawing or playing an instrument). Basically they should have an advantage over the average peasant even without cheat skills, but often times they don't utilize anything useful from their past experiences.
No, mostly because the conditions for modern society do not exist outside of their nascent form in a midevil world. Economics? What are you going to do with that knowledge as a serf who can’t go more than 20 miles before breaking the law. Math? Do you know calculus and it’s various proofs? How much can you do without a calculator? If not you will just be an average mathematician of the time, assuming your lord even lets you do anything with that talent. Networking? Do you know your neighbor’s name? What about their neighbor’s? Reading might help, but certainly wouldn’t be a rare skill, especially if it is easy to join a church as clergy or a priest. Not even mentioning the fact that you probably don’t know the new language. A hobby or profession then is going to be giving you an advantage, but what good would a philosophy, such as natural philosophy aka science, be if you do not have the ability to spread or test your knowledge since you are a serf. Like wise with something like chess, calligraphy, art, etc. So unless you are a blacksmith, pharmacist, botanist, survivalist, or something that can help you as a serf you are practically screwed.

Bottom of the line is that the class structure of Midevil Europe was generally so stratified that it was near impossible for change to happen on a large or small scale without conflict, such as war, plague, and or famine. Your best chance is to try and join the clergy of some kind or join in war and hope for a promotion. Of course life wasn’t completely bleak in that age, but power was not something that was easy to gain. Now magic could throw a few wrenches into this, but assuming that the world still has a midevil class structure than not much would change. Maybe you could hope for some sort of exam like in Dynastic China, but how much power would that give you assuming you could pass? Probably not that much, the nobility/aristocracy must have some means to keep their power besides the total control of the land they rule, the slaves/surfs that work it, and the takes they get from everyone else. Your best choice is to try and overthrow the ruling classes by joining with likeminded folks, growing your movement, and pressing your advantage, especially during some sort of crisis.

End of the line is that modern knowledge wouldn’t help much without some sort of cheat or material advantage. You would be a serf, someone forced to slave on a field until you can pay an exorbitant fee to become a freeman, that is assuming you have a nice lord. You might have a higher chance if you were born in a world with magic, or more similar to later Dynastic China. Even then however your chances are fairly grim, especially as a serf or peasant.
 
D

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I don't read isekai to think. Not every story should be a great story that makes you think and leaves you wowed. Great stories are emotionally taxing to read.

Some stories I want to turn my brain off and read fluff. That's what these stories target. Everybody pretends like they only want amazing stories that are intricate and thought-provoking. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't want all of the stories I read to be gritty and make me cry.
 

2wordsperminute

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Hear me out: not every isekai world has to be filled with uneducated people. At least some should have the magicians be far smarter than the average earthling.
 

Nolff

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Not all isekai are bad but so many either don't utilize the advantages of modern knowledge or just erase the character's memory so that he doesn't have the benefit of his knowledge. Many isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert.

Someone from the modern world has the advantage of learning math (at least basic math), should have basic critical thinking skills, understand the importance of networking, be willing to learn reading and writing of the new world, understand the basics of economics (even if its usually just microeconomics), and possibly have personal skills from a hobby (like a sport such as fencing, a science like chemistry, or an art like drawing or playing an instrument). Basically they should have an advantage over the average peasant even without cheat skills, but often times they don't utilize anything useful from their past experiences.
Um, that plot device is really common in Isekai. Some don't use it but it isn't hard to find.
I agree. Most Isekai people use the knowledge they have gained in the real world to gain advantages in their new world.
They miraculously know how to build suspensions for carriages, smartphones, guns, distillation stills, and pump wells(even though they never did that in their previous life); just because we know what a car is doesn't mean we know how to build an engine from scratch. That being said, many isekai stories they rarely bring their actual experiences.
I mean, what if the guy was an mechanical engineer? Or a herbalist? Or something else. I mean, that's what I do for my isekai. Some like to bring that knowledge out of nowhere, like that time I got reincarnated as a slime, but you know they are out there.

Well, one I know is Not Your Typical Reincarnation Story, which is a good one. She is an office worker, and because of that, she can manage funds to get a better standing. So, they are out there, just the magical ones tend also to drown them I guess.
You mean, this?

@KoyukiMegumi

I do be right tho.
 
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Anonjohn20

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:meowsip: All these skills would be mightily useless if you are born a peasant. Chemistry ... Economics ...

What are even those economics? Accounting? An excel sheet?

As for networking ... Depending on your fantasy setting, you know how the feudal system works, right? :blob_hide:
Oh great, a cynic. Listen, with basic math and microeconomics it would be easy for someone to become a merchant rather than remain a peasant or one could eaarn the lord's attention and become their assistant. Those are just a few examples.

As for your feudal system comment. Cronyism and nepotism were just as prevalent then as they are now, befriend a guy and incur his favoritism.
I just skip the first few chapters of generic isekai and just pretend it’s a generic fantasy story. Skipping the isekai never really causes any issues because most authors abandon the thread after the first few chapters
"most authors abandon the thread after the first few chapters"
Exactly my point. So many stories didn't need to be Isekai at all.
 
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Assurbanipal_II

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Oh great, a cynic. Listen, with basic math and microeconomics it would be easy for someone to become a merchant rather than remain a peasant or one could eaarn the lord's attention and become their assistant. Those are just a few examples.

As for your feudal system comment. Cronyism and nepotism were just as prevalent then as they are now, befriend a guy and incur his favoritism.
:blob_hide: You miss the point. Feudalism goes deeper. Your station in life was determined by your birth.

As for math and your "microeconomics", you significantly underestimate the merchants back then if you seriously think you make the cut just like that.
 

Hans.Trondheim

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I really don't want to play the devil's advocate since I agree that there are way too many pointless isekai, but your opinion about people is way too high. Basics of economics? Hobbies? Critical thinking? Be willing to learn reading and writing? You ask for way too much.
Yeah, like how the modern Homo Sapiens Sapiens, especially my neighbors here in our subdivision, would disturb our day off just because they can't understand the sign on our gate that says CLOSED FOR BUSINESS EVERY SUNDAY.

Mind you, we live in an upper-middle class neighborhood.
 

laccoff_mawning

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Basically they should have an advantage over the average peasant even without cheat skills
I'd argue on the side that any isekai'ed person would be at a disadvantage. The problem with knowledge taught in schools is that it's relevent to our culture. However, the average person isn't taught how to make technology from scratch. Lets say you actually remember the Haber process from chemistry. If you don't remember it, thats the one that makes ammonia, useful for fertilisers. Even if you do fully remember what you were taught about that in school, are you actually going to be able to replicate all that by yourself in a fantasy world? Maybe, but it would take years of research to make a working prototype. This pretty much goes for most technology out there. You want to make electricity? Would you know how to make a simple electrical generator? Would you know how to make motors or light bulbs or anything uses electricity?

And thats without magic thrown into the mix. We know everything is made of atoms, and those atoms are made of protons, neutrons and electrons, right? We also know that diseases are caused by microorganisms.

But here's the problem: would those necessarily be true for an isekai world? If magic exists, surely thats going to change some of the laws of physics, won't it?

So half your knowledge (language, history) will be useless, and some of your knowledge (like the sciences) might be downright wrong. Lacking the common sense of that would would be enough to put you at a disadvantage in day-to-day life.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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I'd argue on the side that any isekai'ed person would be at a disadvantage. The problem with knowledge taught in schools is that it's relevent to our culture. However, the average person isn't taught how to make technology from scratch. Lets say you actually remember the Haber process from chemistry. If you don't remember it, thats the one that makes ammonia, useful for fertilisers. Even if you do fully remember what you were taught about that in school, are you actually going to be able to replicate all that by yourself in a fantasy world? Maybe, but it would take years of research to make a working prototype. This pretty much goes for most technology out there. You want to make electricity? Would you know how to make a simple electrical generator? Would you know how to make motors or light bulbs or anything uses electricity?

And thats without magic thrown into the mix. We know everything is made of atoms, and those atoms are made of protons, neutrons and electrons, right? We also know that diseases are caused by microorganisms.

But here's the problem: would those necessarily be true for an isekai world? If magic exists, surely thats going to change some of the laws of physics, won't it?

So half your knowledge (language, history) will be useless, and some of your knowledge (like the sciences) might be downright wrong. Lacking the common sense of that would would be enough to put you at a disadvantage in day-to-day life.

:blob_hide: As for the Haber-Bosch process, there is a reason it is usually called Haber-Bosch and not just Haber. Haber was the mastermind behind the chemistry. Bosch was a genius of engineering who together with the BASF company, a German chemical giant back then, supported Haber with their immense financial and technical resources. They put his theory into practice, which was quite the undertaking.
 

Anonjohn20

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:blob_hide: You miss the point. Feudalism goes deeper. Your station in life was determined by your birth.

As for math and your "microeconomics", you significantly underestimate the merchants back then if you seriously think you make the cut just like that.
So you ignored the whole premise of the original post, "Many isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert." and then accused others of missing the point. The irony is palpable.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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So you ignored the whole premise of the original post, "Many isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert." and then accused others of missing the point. The irony is palpable.
"Someone from the modern world has the advantage of learning math (at least basic math), should have basic critical thinking skills, understand the importance of networking, be willing to learn reading and writing of the new world, understand the basics of economics (even if its usually just microeconomics), and possibly have personal skills from a hobby (like a sport such as fencing, a science like chemistry, or an art like drawing or playing an instrument). Basically they should have an advantage over the average peasant even without cheat skills, but often times they don't utilize anything useful from their past experiences."

This was the premise. :blob_cookie:
 

Anonjohn20

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"Someone from the modern world has the advantage of learning math (at least basic math), should have basic critical thinking skills, understand the importance of networking, be willing to learn reading and writing of the new world, understand the basics of economics (even if its usually just microeconomics), and possibly have personal skills from a hobby (like a sport such as fencing, a science like chemistry, or an art like drawing or playing an instrument). Basically they should have an advantage over the average peasant even without cheat skills, but often times they don't utilize anything useful from their past experiences."

This was the premise. :blob_cookie:
I get it. You're not good at reading, so you're here to practice.

premise.png

This is the definition of premise.

premise 2.png

Here, I made it obvious it for you. Here's a hint: look at the title, then read the post again and try to find the proposition.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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I get it. You're not good at reading, so you're here to practice.

View attachment 30780
This is the definition of premise.

View attachment 30781
Here, I made it obvious it for you. Here's a hint: look at the title, then read the post again and try to find the proposition.

:blob_cookie: Your premise remains unchanged.

To quote,

"Not all isekai are bad but so many either don't utilize the advantages of modern knowledge or just erase the character's memory so that he doesn't have the benefit of his knowledge. Many isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert.

Someone from the modern world has the advantage of learning math (at least basic math), should have basic critical thinking skills, understand the importance of networking, be willing to learn reading and writing of the new world, understand the basics of economics (even if its usually just microeconomics), and possibly have personal skills from a hobby (like a sport such as fencing, a science like chemistry, or an art like drawing or playing an instrument). Basically they should have an advantage over the average peasant even without cheat skills, but often times they don't utilize anything useful from their past experiences."

Your premise is that people don't use their past life’s skills. I respond to that in the sense that you overrate skills and underestimate the challenges involved, yet you suddenly try here to move the goal post.
 

Anonjohn20

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:blob_cookie: Your premise remains unchanged.

To quote,

"Not all isekai are bad but so many either don't utilize the advantages of modern knowledge or just erase the character's memory so that he doesn't have the benefit of his knowledge. Many isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert.

Someone from the modern world has the advantage of learning math (at least basic math), should have basic critical thinking skills, understand the importance of networking, be willing to learn reading and writing of the new world, understand the basics of economics (even if its usually just microeconomics), and possibly have personal skills from a hobby (like a sport such as fencing, a science like chemistry, or an art like drawing or playing an instrument). Basically they should have an advantage over the average peasant even without cheat skills, but often times they don't utilize anything useful from their past experiences."

Your premise is that people don't use their past life’s skills. I respond to that in the sense that you overrate skills and underestimate the challenges involved, yet you suddenly try here to move the goal post.
Nope, Moving the goalpost is a logical fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. The problem with changing the rules of the game is that the meaning of the result is changed, too. An argument could be made that you are the one moving the goalpost.

I haven't changed anything, I literally quoted and then took a screenshot of the premise. My original premise was that, "Many Isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert." I have not changed that at all. I gave an example that you clearly don't like, but it doesn't change the fact that a rather large number of stories in the Isekai genre are not using the medium of having a past life in any meaningful way. That is what the thread was always about, I'm not trying to change it to that. The first three people to interact in the thread understood that.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Nope, Moving the goalpost is a logical fallacy in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other evidence is demanded. That is, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt. The problem with changing the rules of the game is that the meaning of the result is changed, too. An argument could be made that you are the one moving the goalpost.

I haven't changed anything, I literally quoted and then took a screenshot of the premise. My original premise was that, "Many Isekai could have used just used a character from that world but pointlessly grabbed a character from the modern world to have a self-insert." I have not changed that at all. I gave an example that you clearly don't like, but it doesn't change the fact that a rather large number of stories in the Isekai genre are not using the medium of having a past life in any meaningful way. That is what the thread was always about, I'm not trying to change it to that. The first three people to interact in the thread understood that.
:blob_cookie: And in that sense I responded, pointing out the problem of your premise. See, everything according to logic.
 
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