Why Lovecraft is cringy, a self reflection

SilvCrimBlac

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And you act like it's a Herculean effort to look for The Caretaker on YouTube and copy a link. It's just a video man, chill.
Lol okay. Sure.

And....are you sure? Paraphrase? So I paraphrased the very thing you've said twice now that you didn't say? Or at least once.

I said: "So tentacle-horror was relevant and integral to his racism. Wild and crazy horror is somehow relevant to "them blacks". "

You said: "I never once made parallels between "them blacks" and tentacle monsters, the fuck?"

I said: "So, minus all the extra words you used to say the same thing more than once, you did in general, say his tentacle horror was brought about by his racist paranoia against "them blacks" if you shorten it and drop all the useless fluff in your statement. His mental issues just enhanced the literary outcome." (Which is literally making parallels)

You said: "Then I don't know what the hell we're banting about. You just paraphrased me. What's the problem here?"

Lol. You "didn't make parallels. But now you did? Make your mind up. I think you need to listen to that vid more than me.
The post looks cringe to some because it's an attempt at throwing loose connection leaning completely towards intuitive random perception like brain vomit. It completely throws rigorous sorting of the thoughts which can look immature for people who likes polishing and cleaning up concrete data because it's something they would be able to do as babies with eyes closed.

There's no need to be mad, you can let them do their job vomitting ideas and find something valuable on their own, and encourage them to form clean concrete fact based thesis afterwards ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lol nice.
 
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BenJepheneT

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Lol okay. Sure.

And....are you sure? Paraphrase? So I paraphrased the very thing you've said twice now that you didn't say? Or at least once.

I said: "So tentacle-horror was relevant and integral to his racism. Wild and crazy horror is somehow relevant to "them blacks". "

You said: "I never once made parallels between "them blacks" and tentacle monsters, the fuck?"

I said: "So, minus all the extra words you used to say the same thing more than once, you did in general, say his tentacle horror was brought about by his racist paranoia against "them blacks" if you shorten it and drop all the useless fluff in your statement. His mental issues just enhanced the literary outcome." (Which is literally making parallels)

You said: "Then I don't know what the hell we're banting about. You just paraphrased me. What's the problem here?"

Lol. You "didn't make paralleles. But now you did? Make your mind up. I think you need to listen to that vid more than me.
Screenshot_20211122_231315.jpg


All I said was that Lovecraft's racism served a lot to his storytelling. I'm not the one writing the tales. He is. He's the one writing parallels between "them blacks" and the tentacle horror. All I did was point it out.

Alright, I'll stop mentioning the video, god damn.
 

ThrillingHuman

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pre-assumption of existential angst, while irony and wonder would be a more productive reaction to the infinite abyss
What do you mean in saying "productive" when referring to a reaction to something? Being productive implies that it does something of value, but applying this word to a reaction feels a bit strange. Does it mean "this sort of reaction is by nature more valuable than that"? If so, why? I sincerely don't get it.
 

SilvCrimBlac

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View attachment 11300

All I said was that Lovecraft's racism served a lot to his storytelling. I'm not the one writing the tales. He is. He's the one writing parallels between "them blacks" and the tentacle horror. All I did was point it out.

Alright, I'll stop mentioning the video, god damn.
I know what you said. I copied it in that last post. Word for word. Nothing I said was incorrect unless you're denying your own words. And please, stop with the memes or images. They don't add anything. They are just an attempt at humor to distract from your lesser argument. "Revolt" lol
 

T.K._Paradox

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I respectfully disagree with you @Agentt.

Lovecraft has been a major inspiration for me, surrealist and eldritch horror has always been my bread and butter to stuff that can actually scare me.

And I have always tried to incorporate elements of said horror genres into my works.

His paranoia and fear of almost everything is what made him a great author. He was never the best at storytelling or prose, even though were both superb, but originality and conjuring the feeling of dread were the areas he excelled at.

His stories do for me what many other horror stories can't. Make me feel uncomfortable. Not because he is a racist or anything like that. It is because like Lovecraft himself the stories are constantly filled with a nervous, paranoid energy that leads to a sense of dread.

But besides that, yes Lovecraft's first stories were mediocre. But what really matters is that he improved over time, like many other authors.

In other words: I am biased towards Lovecraft, and this post is based more on personal feelings than cold hard facts, but you still shouldn't judge his or anyone else's skill as an author at the beginning of their career. Not saying you can't find Lovecraft cringy, but judge his skill as an author by his entire works not just his beginning stuff.

Also hope your hand heals up soon.
 

BenJepheneT

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I know what you said. I copied it in that last post. Word for word. Nothing I said was incorrect unless you're denying your own words. And please, stop with the memes or images. They don't add anything. They are just an attempt at humor to distract from your lesser argument. "Revolt" lol
Be not afraid

I am just a jpeg

IMG_20220106_013358.jpg
 

SilvCrimBlac

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I respectfully disagree with you @Agentt.

Lovecraft has been a major inspiration for me, surrealist and eldritch horror has always been my bread and butter to stuff that can actually scare me.

And I have always tried to incorporate elements of said horror genres into my works.

His paranoia and fear of almost everything is what made him a great author. He was never the best at storytelling or prose, even though were both superb, but originality and conjuring the feeling of dread were the areas he excelled at.

His stories do for me what many other horror stories can't. Make me feel uncomfortable. Not because he is a racist or anything like that. It is because like Lovecraft himself the stories are constantly filled with a nervous, paranoid energy that leads to a sense of dread.

But besides that, yes Lovecraft's first stories were mediocre. But what really matters is that he improved over time, like many other authors.

In other words: I am biased towards Lovecraft, and this post is based more on personal feelings than cold hard facts, but you still shouldn't judge his or anyone else's skill as an author at the beginning of their career. Not saying you can't find Lovecraft cringy, but judge his skill as an author by his entire works not just his beginning stuff.

Also hope your hand heals up soon.
I preferred Robert E. Howard with his Hyborean Age lore and world. He was also proficient in Alternate History. Of course, I bet if I made a post about it, someone would decide to bring up how he was or wasn't racist as if that has any bearing on his literary talent and skills. It's why I try to avoid political discussions. Half the world if not more seems to be an "American Democrat" who wish to screech "muh racism" about anything at all even if it has nothing to do with the original topic. (And no, this isn't a dig at anyone specific. This is a very common thing nowadays worldwide for some reason and its not a good trend.)
Be not afraid

I am just a jpeg

View attachment 11302
Lol. It's hard to dislike you. Even if I try, I still end up admiring you for your humor. Also, when is the Fallout fic getting another hefty update? I'm fiending.
 

T.K._Paradox

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I preferred Robert E. Howard with his Hyborean Age lore and world. He was also proficient in Alternate History. Of course, I bet if I made a post about it, someone would decide to bring up how he was or wasn't racist as if that has any bearing on his literary talent and skills. It's why I try to avoid political discussions. Half the world seems to be an "American Democrat" who want to screech "muh racism" about anything at all even if it has nothing to do with the original topic.

Lol. It's hard to dislike you. Even if I try, I still end up admiring you for your humor. Also, when is the Fallout fic getting another hefty update? I'm fiending.
People need to learn how separate art from the artist. You can enjoy someone's work with out liking said person.

I rarely find myself hating both an artist and their art work. Except Picasso.
 

BenJepheneT

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Also, when is the Fallout fic getting another hefty update? I'm fiending.
I didn't think anyone was reading it at all, to be honest. As far as I know, I'm throwing my hours into the void for shits and giggles.

Bad news: I don't think I'll be touching Kapal until next July or so. Good news: it's probably gonna be an important plot point happening by the next update.
 

SilvCrimBlac

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I didn't think anyone was reading it at all, to be honest. As far as I know, I'm throwing my hours into the void for shits and giggles.

Bad news: I don't think I'll be touching Kapal until next July or so. Good news: it's probably gonna be an important plot point happening by the next update.
Well I'm reading it and am a big fan of it.
People need to learn how separate art from the artist. You can enjoy someone's work with out liking said person.

I rarely find myself hating both an artist and their art work. Except Picasso.
Yep. Very rare phenomenon.
 

CupcakeNinja

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So, I have been wanting to write this, along with part 2 of this for a long time, but couldn't due to my fingertips getting bruised.

I don't like horror.
Humans dying is either funny, or traumatic, there is no inbetweeners for me.

So when I first learnt of the concept of this 'Lovecraftian horror' I didn't pay any heed to it,

I knew Love craftian horror didn't contain much gore, but depended on that whole, "something too weird to comprehend" stuff, nevertheless, I put it among other horrors,

This continued until one day, someone asked me how i feel about it, and I said, "it's stupid."

On that night, I saw a dream in which the spirit of HP Lovecraft himself asked me,
"How can I improve my work?"
He didn't say anything else, just that statement.

And that left me dumbfounded.

If any horror author were to ask me to review his work, I would had annoyed the hell out of him, pointing out every cliche and stuff that didn't made sense.

But I possibly can't do that to Lovecraft.
He created the genre.

It's like...such an absurd idea, I don't even have an analogy for this.

I mean, you can teach the inventor of chess the rules of chess, I am sure he would love to learn more about en passant or casting or any other variations you play with.

But with Lovecraft, for the first time, I just felt like I am not qualified.

When i woke up that day, I googled who he was.

A great author who used real life locations and his knowledge of geography, they said.

Now, google recommended that I read The Calling Of Chuthulu(I hope I spelled that right)

But, I mean, the title wouldn't be "why lovecraft is cringy" if I had just read his most loved book and ended it there.

Nope!

I went and searched for the first story he had every written.

Not even a book, but a story.
Aye, this was the time when HP would write stories for a local magazine.

And people, I must say,
Lovecraft, was cringe indeed.

And it's not that he didn't knew it, I could feel him cringing from my screen, by passing the time and space gap.

One problem that newbie authors face is choosing a name,
Even when they do choose a name, if the said name happens to be of another language or culture, it feels very cringy to say it.

Lovecraft himself always avoided naming his characters.
Even when he did had to name them, he would name them Bob, Joe and other generic names and then never mentioned it again by having the characters not say each other's name at all.

Even while naming places, he would often name them, 'City A'

For a long time, Lovecraft's earliest stories suffered like this.
It was only when he started collaborating with another author did he first named all his characters, as opposed to having butlers named Butler as seen in his earlier works.


As for the plot, while it's not the greatest thing in the world, Lovecraft has tried to deliver an unexpected ending to every one of his stories, even though most of them are predictable.

The characters couldn't possibly be plainer, they had more 2d personality than an isekai villain.

The world building was the worst and would contradict itself in order to make things more convenient for the MC.

For a 500 word stories, these were decent, but not very alluring.

Better luck next time Lovecraft, I hope you improve.
so basically its like you're saying Einstein was an idiot just because he hadn't made any famous theorems in his middle school days. Like, fine. Lovecraft was cringe when he first started writing....and? Not everyone is a natural wordsmith like Yours Truly. Dont hold him to my level
 
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owotrucked

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Of course, I bet if I made a post about it, someone would decide to bring up how he was or wasn't racist as if that has any bearing on his literary talent and skills. It's why I try to avoid political discussions. Half the world if not more seems to be an "American Democrat" who wish to screech "muh racism" about anything at all even if it has nothing to do with the original topic.

Lol. It's hard to dislike you. Even if I try, I still end up admiring you for your humor. Also, when is the Fallout fic getting another hefty update? I'm fiending.
To be fair, I think Ben pointed out Lovecraft's racism so we could make an inappropriate joke like 'being racist and schizoid is one hell of a drug and a key component for the success of my future writing career'.

I personally think that he left his statement open without implying anything negative or positive about racism.

But I will allow you to beat his ass for leaving it open :blobthumbsup:
 

Daitengu

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Storytelling changes, I say, there's always gonna be shit stories and good stories depending on the reader. Technology via films and vidya games have changed the scene, yes, but the written word is as it was: words.
I don't judge art on a scale, merely by taste... like contemporary surrealism being more poignant than renaissance masters to me, tho the techniques the latter applied were stringent and meticulous af, and their art was in no way sub-par (their grasp of anatomy formed a base for many who came after them).

I was being general as in plot, theme, and story structure. All of which have overall improved over time. From the Iliad to now.

My point is bro is probably not liking Lovecraft because stories in general get messier as language drifts and basic story structure have evolved since then. Then again Lovecraft himself was a hot mess. Often sickly, hated American English, had a sister who hallucinated, and bouts of depression from family deaths or financial ruin. Not surprised it showed in his work. He also never got published in a book and all of his works were in magazines. Which had guidelines to follow.
 

Amok

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What do you mean in saying "productive" when referring to a reaction to something? Being productive implies that it does something of value, but applying this word to a reaction feels a bit strange. Does it mean "this sort of reaction is by nature more valuable than that"? If so, why? I sincerely don't get it.

Yeah I typed vaguely and impulsively, as is my wont. More of a personal thing, rather than being driven mad by complexity of reality, enjoy it and gleam meaning from it. Proactive would be a better term? Being encouraged by the eternal vastness of reality instead of being rendered despondent and confused by it, I guess.

I was being general as in plot, theme, and story structure. All of which have overall improved over time. From the Iliad to now.

My point is bro is probably not liking Lovecraft because stories in general get messier as language drifts and basic story structure have evolved since then. Then again Lovecraft himself was a hot mess. Often sickly, hated American English, had a sister who hallucinated, and bouts of depression from family deaths or financial ruin. Not surprised it showed in his work. He also never got published in a book and all of his works were in magazines. Which had guidelines to follow.

Oh I get you, I adore authors from late 60's to 80's (Vance, Wolfe, etc.). Especially the saga of the New Sun, where what happens in book 1 has actual and visceral impact on what happens in book 4/5, and later extensions. Lovecraft had overarching themes but not consistent plots, thus his hundredfold works have common attributes but little interplay between the tales. My point i guess is that I'll look past archaic systems if the content itself is interesting enough, but Lovecraft is not my favorite author. I adore folk who create more consistently abstract worlds compared to Lovecraft's usage of contemporary(in his time) characters who are introduced to some fell strangeness from the beyond.

certainly his personal life has had a hell of an effect on his works, basically, i don't give a fuck. Someone can be an utter genocidal maniac, yet if I find their world interesting I'd read about it(probably won't shove money their way tho).
 

ThrillingHuman

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More of a personal thing, rather than being driven mad by complexity of reality, enjoy it and gleam meaning from it. Proactive would be a better term? Being encouraged by the eternal vastness of reality instead of being rendered despondent and confused by it, I guess
I always took it as in, Lovecraft's eldritch reality was so different from what human species have evolved socially and biologically to accept, that it became unacceptable, rather than simply being overwhelmed by it. Like, there's some fundamental part of reality that goes against the very spirit of humanity, a truth so harsh and disgusting that we would rather collectively destroy ourselves than face it. In call of cthulhu, for example, they talked about how the cultists would be mad with joy, becoming creatures that took pleasure in murder and animalistic urges.
This idea has always appealed to me for some reason. The destination of all of humanity's progress and all of its expectations being a nightmare is morbidly beautiful and endlessly fascinating as an idea, at least to me
That's why when the protagonists of his stories come into contact with the eldritch monstrosities, they go mad just by seeing and interacting with them. And why at every step of the way, when describing the world there would be those strange and grotesque beings, as Yog-Sothoth containing all of space and time within itself and Azathoth dreaming the entire reality as we know it.
Metaphorically, I see it as manifestations of that truth that hides in plain sight that we choose to not see, but becomes apparent once you look and interact with it.
Our current society has inherited the rationalistic traditions of thought of Ancient Greece, and we have come to reap benefits of science so much that we see progress and searching for truth as an inherently good thing at mass, and thinking that at the end of this road await things that are so terrible, so hideous, so nauseating, so perverted and alien and unacceptable that we would rather destroy all we have than face it? Something that we absolutely can't face, can't embrace, can't marvel at without having to fundamentally change ourself into the unacceptable. Something we will never understand. This way of thinking is so novel that I can't help but find attractive, if by novelty alone.
 
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Amok

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I always took it as in, Lovecraft's eldritch reality was so different from what human species have evolved socially and biologically to accept, that it became unacceptable, rather than simply being overwhelmed by it. Like, there's some fundamental part of reality that goes against the very spirit of humanity, a truth so harsh and disgusting that we would rather collectively destroy ourselves than face it. In call of cthulhu, for example, they talked about how the cultists would be mad with joy, becoming creatures that took pleasure in murder and animalistic urges.
This idea has always appealed to me for some reason. The destination of all of humanity's progress and all of its expectations being a nightmare is morbidly beautiful and endlessly fascinating as an idea, at least to me
You're right! Felt the same, lacked eloquence/immediate memory to express it as such. This is what Lovecraft expressed: the alieness of the beyond, and the instinctual revulsion of folk when faced with something so utterly beyond comprehension. Fear, hate, perplexity, worship flows from the clashing of the human norm with the eldritch truth. He absolutely conveyed this contrast between daily life and the incomprehensible designs of beings from beyond our dimensional and rational scope. A painting becomes a portrait of him who delved too far, a violin expresses the mental anguish of one who faced the weird, the melody speaking in ways words could not; this I admire.

But going ex-fiction, looking at my own life, I would be more intrigued by such facets of reality if they existed rather than revulsed, yet the very nature of these beings as portrayed create an instinctual revulsion toward their alieness(and those intrigued who seek to appease these powers tend to bite off more than they can chew, yet can gain sorcerous power still through abesiance to eldritch entities)

eH i'M A BIT tipsy, don't expect sense to be made.
 

bigbear51

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We've already got tons of stupid threads. You chose to add yet another one on the trash heap.
 
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