Your take on a wimpy MC

[NotaNuffian]

So basically I am writing a story about a middle aged salaryman who just happens to get the power of system, for the first twenty or so chapters the main character is fresh out to be a coward with bad temper, family issues, inferiority complexes and he himself a childish pervert, and these character traits might persist till fifty plus chapters. Frankly, I am hating the character already and maybe it is just me because I know how bad this character will be, and that he is planning to be a background character till the very bitter end because he wants no responsibilities. The setting is in modern time, I will probably cast the plot in the states while also not placing down names, because I suck at place names.

So what is your take on wimpy main character? Think of Reincarnated Swordmaster for reference, cowardy and dumb. Am I supposed to make him grow into an adult by having deaths of someone close? Because sometimes the death trope may have an inverse effect and make the character regress instead.

I was planning to post the first four chapters initially, but after reading the train wreck and subsequent skeletons, I just want to ice the story

 

[NiQuinn]

Am I supposed to make him grow into an adult by having deaths of someone close?

Death is a trope that has the potential to make your readers roll their eyes and go away. At least, that's what I'd do. A good way to have him grow into an adult is ruining the life of somebody. Or ruin the life of a family by being careless and nonchalant with his actions. The outcome of his choice would then end up having the family affected in a very bad way.

That could be one way. Did that make sense?

 

[NotaNuffian]

Death is a trope that has the potential to make your readers roll their eyes and go away. At least, that's what I'd do. A good way to have him grow into an adult is ruining the life of somebody. Or ruin the life of a family by being careless and nonchalant with his actions. The outcome of his choice would then end up having the family affected in a very bad way.

That could be one way. Did that make sense?

yup, that way the little POS can understand that with mediocre power comes with disproportional great responsibility, though I should start to make him into a jerk with heart of gold instead of jerk with heart of a jerk/ inert. It all boils down to whether the MC can live with the problem he caused and I should have make him more resilient godammit.

 

[Laica]

So basically I am writing a story about a middle aged salaryman who just happens to get the power of system, for the first twenty or so chapters the main character is fresh out to be a coward with bad temper, family issues, inferiority complexes and he himself a childish pervert, and these character traits might persist till fifty plus chapters. Frankly, I am hating the character already and maybe it is just me because I know how bad this character will be, and that he is planning to be a background character till the very bitter end because he wants no responsibilities. The setting is in modern time, I will probably cast the plot in the states while also not placing down names, because I suck at place names.

So what is your take on wimpy main character? Think of Reincarnated Swordmaster for reference, cowardy and dumb. Am I supposed to make him grow into an adult by having deaths of someone close? Because sometimes the death trope may have an inverse effect and make the character regress instead.

I was planning to post the first four chapters initially, but after reading the train wreck and subsequent skeletons, I just want to ice the story

A character doesn't necessarily need to suffer to become a better person. If you have time, take a read at Overgeared, where the main character started as a short-sighted, stupid and greedy bastard but eventually became a respected and successful player.
What happened there was that Grid (MC player name) was continually "manipulated" by his "friends" to become a better player.

Some outright bribed him for the advantages his Legendary Class brought, and others unknowingly placed responsibilities on his shoulders that he somehow couldn't abandon.

What you need to take note of is that someone who is completely wasted cannot be saved. If your MC is lazy towards everything, a coward in front of everything, and generally just a complete drag, anything you do to correct him will feel wrong because he couldn't be saved since the start.

The MC needs an obsession that will never leave him, that will be both his undoing and success. Grid was someone who never gave up halfway and never did things half-heartedly, he was a failure in the start because his goals were shallow and the methods he chose were dumb, but once he found his path, he became a great man, someone to be respected and who could be depended upon.

Anyways, hope I could help.

 

[NotaNuffian]

I'm with NiQuinn; having someone die just as a way to trigger character growth is a tired and stupid trope that just makes me roll my eyes. Ruining someone else's life is a little less cliche, but for me the problem is more or less the same: basically, someone else has to suffer/get fucked over just for the benefit of the protagonist. Fridging isn't necessarily limited to killing, that's just the most common example.

If your protagonist is so repulsively unlikeable, judging from how you describe him, I genuinely think he should bear the burden of trauma that eventually triggers character growth.

1. For a dislikeable character, making them suffer can feel like "punishment" that allows the audience to begrudgingly accept him. It can (at least partially) wipe the slate clean of the previous bad impression the audience has of him because he's been duly punished for his shittiness.
2. Fridging is so dumb and exhausting.
3. As a personal preference, I prefer internalised character growth. YMMV but someone changing just because of a single event traumatising them into it is a little cheap. Seeing him gradually begin to change his character would be better, and it would also be more realistically. People don't just change overnight. Even trauma doesn't necessarily cause immediate change, because so much of how we act is habit so it's easy to fall back into old patterns.

I wanna add: Frankly, I wouldn't read this story because the way I approach stories is like going to hang out with friends. I don't want to spend my time with someone I dislike, and I greatly dislike the sound of this MC. Why would I go have coffee or catch a movie with some insufferable piece of shit? Why would I invest the same amount of time reading a story with one as the lead? At the end of the day, if you don't wanna make a protagonist people sympathise with that's fine, but then you need to make someone readers can empathise with instead. I mean, you're writing this story and even you hate this character so much you want to just quit, so why would someone else, who doesn't have that time and energy investment, want to read about him? Find something to either make him likeable enough, some nugget of decency, that makes people want to stick around to see him change, or give him something relatable that means even if people dislike him, they see themselves in him enough they kind of wanna stay.

That's just my onion tho.

Yup, I am planning to have the prick suffer along the way he goes until he can carry his own weight and stop being such a piece of shit, but my stand still holds with him not being the center of anything, which will make my writings a bit fucked considering how I want him to grow as.

 

[LostinMovement]

I'm guilty of dropping stories where I don't like the MC. As a reader, I need a reason to care about the MC and what happens to them, even if I dislike them at first. You have to give them at least one redeemable trait or a worthwhile motive, otherwise readers won't bother to read the rest of the story and they won't care to see how the MC 'grows' later on.

 

[NotaNuffian]

I'm guilty of dropping stories where I don't like the MC. As a reader, I need a reason to care about the MC and what happens to them, even if I dislike them at first. You have to give them at least one redeemable trait or a worthwhile motive, otherwise readers won't bother to read the rest of the story and they won't care to see how the MC 'grows' later on.

The most redeeming trait I can think of at the moment for the character is basically how normal he supposed to feel when you shove a normie into the world of system. There is him daydreaming and sqwealing in glee now that he has the power. And there is him worrying about the consequences of such power. There are times he misuse the power for pranks and him getting burned, literally, by his own stupidity.

 

[LostinMovement]

The most redeeming trait I can think of at the moment for the character is basically how normal he supposed to feel when you shove a normie into the world of system. There is him daydreaming and sqwealing in glee now that he has the power. And there is him worrying about the consequences of such power. There are times he misuse the power for pranks and him getting burned, literally, by his own stupidity.

As a fellow writer, I understand what you're going for. You want a narrative that heavily focuses on character-growth .That's a great thing. As a reader however, I need to like your MC enough from the very first few chapters to care about their 'character-development journey'.

You have to keep in mind that readers have their own subjective takes on what makes an MC tolerable. I personally can't stand stupid and childish MCs. There is general trope in some web-novels to make the MC an air-headed idiot with the emotional maturity of a toddler. I drop those stories right before they begin. So, try to balance out your MC, for every horrible flaw he has gives an equalizing, decent trait.

 

[UnknownSaint171]

I wouldn’t exactly say Reincarnated Swordmaster is cowardly and dumb, he knows his limits and has instincts to survive, as long as there is character development in your story it should be fine, just look at Kateyko Hitman Reborn - Tsuna is a cowardly one Lol

 

[AliceShiki]

A character doesn't necessarily need to suffer to become a better person. If you have time, take a read at Overheated, where the main character started as a short-sighted, stupid and greedy bastard but eventually became a respected and successful player.
What happened there was that Grid (MC player name) was continually "manipulated" by his "friends" to become a better player.

Some outright bribed him for the advantages his Legendary Class brought, and others unknowingly placed responsibilities on his shoulders that he somehow couldn't abandon.

What you need to take note of is that someone who is completely wasted cannot be saved. If your MC is lazy towards everything, a coward in front of everything, and generally just a complete drag, anything you do to correct him will feel wrong because he couldn't be saved since the start.

The MC needs an obsession that will never leave him, that will be both his undoing and success. Grid was someone who never gave up halfway and never did things half-heartedly, he was a failure in the start because his goals were shallow and the methods he chose were dumb, but once he found his path, he became a great man, someone to be respected and who could be depended upon.

Anyways, I could help.

Overgeared*

Ugh, this ending was a little to pretentious, apologies.
Hope I could help*

Please don't Triple Post. There is an edit button in the bottom left of your post, you can use it to edit any typos you wrote.

 

[Llamadragon]

I'm playing with a slightly similar story. Basically the main character is a fairly good and friendly person who discovers a Darksouls-based VRMMO full of people nuts enough to actually think it's fun to murder each other and get killed over and over with all the realistic details that entails. The MC, who realizes she's not perfect but does genuinely think herself nice enough, has to deal with how her morals change after she learns how much she enjoys murdering people in hyperrealistic pseudo-reality.

Your character is in a similar spot, except kind of worse, because he's not in a virtual reality where dead people just respawn and happily go at it again. He now has the power to explore what society stopped him from before. If you genuinely want an egoistical and weak-willed MC for this, then take him for a dive in his dark desires, the stuff he never dared to touch before, and make him have an anti-hero arc. Give him a battle between what he wants and what he knows is right and wrong, and then when he reaches a certain low point, have him chose between sticking to his shit or turn that dark desire inside out and develop it into a positive trait.

I'm not saying go as dark as assault and murder, for your character it sounds like something shameful but ultimately harmless is the way to go, at least initially, and then perhaps his turning point comes when he starts to hurt others.

 

[Ai-chan]

So basically I am writing a story about a middle aged salaryman who just happens to get the power of system, for the first twenty or so chapters the main character is fresh out to be a coward with bad temper, family issues, inferiority complexes and he himself a childish pervert, and these character traits might persist till fifty plus chapters. Frankly, I am hating the character already and maybe it is just me because I know how bad this character will be, and that he is planning to be a background character till the very bitter end because he wants no responsibilities. The setting is in modern time, I will probably cast the plot in the states while also not placing down names, because I suck at place names.

So what is your take on wimpy main character? Think of Reincarnated Swordmaster for reference, cowardy and dumb. Am I supposed to make him grow into an adult by having deaths of someone close? Because sometimes the death trope may have an inverse effect and make the character regress instead.

I was planning to post the first four chapters initially, but after reading the train wreck and subsequent skeletons, I just want to ice the story

Wimpy characters are not always bad. It's bad if it's not logical. If his actions are logical, then it is not a bad character, no matter how wimpy he is.

Example:
Andy is wimp. He's been a wimp his entire life. In front of him is a girl about to be mutilated by a monster. What should he do?
a) If you want him to remain wimpy and coward, you will make him run away. Valour be damned. It's every man for himself. No reason to endanger his own life for someone else.
b) If you want him to remain wimpy and hopelessly indecisive, you will make him fall to ground pissing his pants off. This is actually a legitimate fight-or-flight response. When encountering a situation where fight or flight choice is given, some people are not able to make that choice and just stands there not doing anything despite the terror. This is why you can often see with people tripping over nothing, where their legs become stiff and unable to function the way it should had they been calm.
c) If you want to establish him as a douchebag asshole, you would write it so that it was he who pushed her in front of the monster to save himself. This is completely logical no matter how people hate it. People have this inner desire to like valorous things and hate cowardly things, but had they been in the same situation, who's to say they won't do the same? Those same people who condemn such actions are sometimes hypocrites.
d) If you want to write him as someone cowardly but with a good heart, you could write it so that he runs away, and in doing so allows him to call for help. Maybe the help comes from a soldier, a hero, a mage or just random villagers. The fact of the matter is, he realize he didn't have the guts to fight the monster but he did try in his own way to help her. If she lives, that's great, we get a happy ending. If she dies, that's great too, he gets a learning experience.

And that is more important, more than whether or not the character is wimpy. The character, regardless of his disposition, must grow. Just like human beings in the real world, everyone grows in one way or another based on their life experience. What infuriates readers are not necessarily the character's wimpiness, but the character's inability to learn and grow from his experiences. A static character is not fun to read about and if that same character is a worthless coward, it's even less enjoyable to read.

 

[Llamadragon]

Whoa! Glad to see we're both still working off that prompt! (Funnily enough, I also decided to go with a female protagonist, but that's just because I make female characters for all my Soulsborne games.) If you end up publishing this on SH, shoot me a link to it, because you've gone in a much different direction than I was thinking of going and I'm all the more interested in reading it.

Oh, you're working on it too? Noice, I hope you'll upload it! I probably won't upload my version as it's not first in the que of stuff to work on for me, but if I ever do I'll let you know.

 

[Ram5]

So basically I am writing a story about a middle aged salaryman who just happens to get the power of system, for the first twenty or so chapters the main character is fresh out to be a coward with bad temper, family issues, inferiority complexes and he himself a childish pervert, and these character traits might persist till fifty plus chapters. Frankly, I am hating the character already and maybe it is just me because I know how bad this character will be, and that he is planning to be a background character till the very bitter end because he wants no responsibilities. The setting is in modern time, I will probably cast the plot in the states while also not placing down names, because I suck at place names.

So what is your take on wimpy main character? Think of Reincarnated Swordmaster for reference, cowardy and dumb. Am I supposed to make him grow into an adult by having deaths of someone close? Because sometimes the death trope may have an inverse effect and make the character regress instead.

I was planning to post the first four chapters initially, but after reading the train wreck and subsequent skeletons, I just want to ice the story

1. coward behavior is normal, unless you're an immortal that had been lived 1000 years or a soldier who had been in 100 battle, we are afraid in the face of new challenges, even sometimes backdown because we don't think we can't do it.
2. There are many way to make character grow up, first, responsibility (with a great strength come with great responsibility) this term is no joke, whether it was for your parents, wife, harem, friends, or to the greater extent, completely unrelated people, the mc could be described as childish and short-sighted, provoking many people that possibly retaliate to his family, whether now or later, then have some accidents to make him realized this, either from other families or his own, thus the mc grew up.

Second, death, self-explanatory I think.
Third, broken heart, getting dump or your significant one soon to be married with others.
Four, life experience, the mc traveled all around the world, has seen many events, he later came back home with different attitudes, maybe become arrogant or nicer.
Five, Financial Trouble.
Six, Falling in love
Seven, Getting rescued, especially by weaker or poor people the mc despise.
Eight, Inspirational character model, Mc meet someone that inspired him to grow up
Nine, Realizing the truth, the mc working for evil group but he thought they are right, like a blind fate, later had him realized how wrong he is.
Ten, Losing a fight, the mc always constantly winning, he became a little arrogant, has someone defeated him, much preferable someone at his level but super talented without cheat, like a true genius, make MC suffer a horrible shame.

 

[SillyIslandBum]

What is the point of giving your MC a system? If you’re giving the MC a system then you are attempting to create an OP character. If you give someone a system and make them a wimp for 20-50 chapters I don’t see how you’re going to keep people interested in the story.

You can make a character struggle, select their opponents wisely, keep a low-profile, be a dick, and be greedy while keeping readers interested. They can even make bad decisions and lose fights. But if your character is not advancing in their system - which generally requires confrontations - then there was no point in giving them one.

Also, I’m not sure how successful you’ll be at making a middle-aged Salaryman into a childish pervert. Using someone who is middle-aged will make readers assume the character is somewhat mature. If you make them act like a 13 year old that is even more perverted than a real 13 year old, people will get tired of it quickly.

Webnovels are not like the book you buy on amazon or in a store. There are thousands of other stories available for free and most people are reading more than one novel at a time. If you make your character too unlikeable and keep them that way for too long, readers will just drop the story. After all, there are plenty of other options and there’s no financial loss.

 

[AliceShiki]

What is the point of giving your MC a system? If you’re giving the MC a system then you are attempting to create an OP character. If you give someone a system and make them a wimp for 20-50 chapters I don’t see how you’re going to keep people interested in the story.

You can make a character struggle, select their opponents wisely, keep a low-profile, be a dick, and be greedy while keeping readers interested. They can even make bad decisions and lose fights. But if your character is not advancing in their system - which generally requires confrontations - then there was no point in giving them one.

Also, I’m not sure how successful you’ll be at making a middle-aged Salaryman into a childish pervert. Using someone who is middle-aged will make readers assume the character is somewhat mature. If you make them act like a 13 year old that is even more perverted than a real 13 year old, people will get tired of it quickly.

Webnovels are not like the book you buy on amazon or in a store. There are thousands of other stories available for free and most people are reading more than one novel at a time. If you make your character too unlikeable and keep them that way for too long, readers will just drop the story. After all, there are plenty of other options and there’s no financial loss.

Why do you think there is any relationship with a system and becoming OP? A system usually just gives the author an easy (and some would argue, lazy) way of showing the character's progress and skills as they grow.

 

[SillyIslandBum]

Why do you think there is any relationship with a system and becoming OP? A system usually just gives the author an easy (and some would argue, lazy) way of showing the character's progress and skills as they grow.

There's no real reason for a system otherwise. Most systems I have ever seen an author use is a way to gauge how powerful the MC is compared to their opponents. The system does not need to be a gaming type system either. Cultivation is a system as well, just one that doesn't normally come with some type of screen or numerical values.

It doesn't have to be some type of fighting system either. The system could have the ultimate goal of making the person the greatest apple picker in the world, but the point is the same, it's to make the character OP in something. Otherwise what is the value of a system? If the character is just going to be mediocre or average, then there is no need to care about system advances. If it does not give the MC some type of advantage, why would readers care about it?

The only other way is if the system is something that is detrimental to the MC and they are fighting or struggling to get away from it, but that is not the norm.

 

[NotaNuffian]

What is the point of giving your MC a system? If you’re giving the MC a system then you are attempting to create an OP character. If you give someone a system and make them a wimp for 20-50 chapters I don’t see how you’re going to keep people interested in the story.

You can make a character struggle, select their opponents wisely, keep a low-profile, be a dick, and be greedy while keeping readers interested. They can even make bad decisions and lose fights. But if your character is not advancing in their system - which generally requires confrontations - then there was no point in giving them one.

Also, I’m not sure how successful you’ll be at making a middle-aged Salaryman into a childish pervert. Using someone who is middle-aged will make readers assume the character is somewhat mature. If you make them act like a 13 year old that is even more perverted than a real 13 year old, people will get tired of it quickly.

Webnovels are not like the book you buy on amazon or in a store. There are thousands of other stories available for free and most people are reading more than one novel at a time. If you make your character too unlikeable and keep them that way for too long, readers will just drop the story. After all, there are plenty of other options and there’s no financial loss.

To that I retort:
1. MC is not the only one with a system, there are someone out there more OP/ have better system than him. He is more of a side character, struggling in the unkind world.
2. His attitude in life suck balls, and yes will continue for about 20 plus chapters not more than 30, because I am trying to write a character that is old but immature, similar to those that in my workplace/ neighborhood. Age does not mean maturity, that is something you need to know. The MC has been a fucking loser for the past 30 plus years in his life, mediocre grades, mediocre life with few or no friends and absolutely no sex life other than his hands and a mediocre white collar job that possibly has no job progression in his lifetime. Like I said, his own attitude sucks, he is the type that when meet up with problems or someone better, he will strive, only to rage quit and sulk after knowing he cannot solve the issue or be on par to the person (he has a small heart, but nonetheless a kind one).
3. The system is actually introduce to him as a carrot and stick, with the carrot being minor power boost while the stick is Death's scythe ready to fucking kill and horribly torture the fuck out of him. It does make him stronger than your average folks, but comparing him to a 20 yo, system-chosen heroes, he is really jackshit.
4. The human interaction in the first few chapters sucks, because I am planning to introduce more characters in to interact with MC, to show how an average human when getting a stupid superpower and thrown into a random game by gods and demons would look like.
5. I am planning to make my MC a heavy tanker/ HP bar thrice more than heroes type. So that he can continue to soak up the damages flung to him just because he is there to suffer.
6. I am not doing this for money lol, I don't even have a patreon and I am not planning to put down my paypal in. I am just writing to see if I can get others to write/ inspire others/ have them give me some constructive thoughts on how to further the progression.

 

[SillyIslandBum]

Yikes. First of all, hard disagree. A system does not have any correlation with making a character overpowered. That's like saying "giving MC magic means you are attempting to make them OP" or "giving MC weapon skills is attempting to make them OP". A system does not inherently represent power -- it can even nerf a character. For example: a "rehabilitation" system binds with a cold-blooded killer that restricts them from being able to inflict violence on other sentient beings -- so if they're in some kind of violence driven world (eg. cultivation), they are especially vulnerable due to this.

Second of all, "system" is a hugely broad concept/genre anyway. System can mean some kind of litRPG/game stat system, or it can mean an ambiguous AI that hands out tasks to the user/host, or it can be some kind of soul lock that compels/restricts the way a person behaves.

Okay? Just because every trashy webnovel you've ever read decides to approach a "system" story the exact same way doesn't mean that's the only way. There are billions of people on this planet. Some people are capable of doing things differently, y'know. You're taking a really hard line stance against "systems don't necessarily make the MC OP" and I got no idea why lol.

As AliceShiki said, systems in stories are more or less just a convenient and often lazily utilised tool to do any other common narrative exercise. For example, a system cam be a good way to motivate an otherwise apathetic character who wouldn't get involved in the story. If the MC of OP's story is wimpy, cowardly, selfish, and passive, then if nothing else the system can function as a way to force him into action -- at least in the beginning, until he finds his own motivation. Systems can be a way to obviously and numerically weigh character progress. Systems can be an easy and cheap way to add conflict. Systems can be an easy justification for why a character might act out of character for themselves (think of how many BG QT novels have "she was the toughest coolest strongest bestest most deadliest ever assassin in the whole wide world uwu and then she bound to a system and the system wouldn't let her kill the story protagonists weh" exist out there in the feral world).

You know what? I have inspired myself. I am pro-systems being used as a lazy writing tool especially for beginner authors who have yet to kind of get an instinct for more natural ways to do this. Everyone should write a system novel and fully take advantage of the tacky convenience of them. Viva la system!

You seem to believe I am against systems, and I am not, nor do I think they are necessarily a lazy way to show a characters progress. Also, I talked about a system that the character struggles against in my second post, but the first post did not say his character was going against a system. Instead, the system appeared to be what the vast amount of authors use systems for, to make a character OP. I even said it does not need to be OP in fighting, it can be something else, but as the character advances they will become OP in something. If the system is only going to make the MC average or mediocre, then what is the point of the system? It is to struggle against it. If it is something that is detrimental, which the Original Poster did not say, then most characters would avoid advancing in it, unless the author forces the character to advance using a different plot device, which again the first post did not say in their first post which I replied to.

The first post said the author would spend 20 - 50 chapters having the MC remain wimpy which implies they are not advancing in some way. My response to that was I do not think many readers would be willing to spend 20-50 chapters on a wimpy character who is not advancing. Even if the author posts every day, that is 20-50 days of an MC that is basically not advancing and not changing, which, with so many other free options to read, I do not think people will gravitate towards. Of course, if the author does not care about attracting readers to their story then this does not matter.

I also said that the MC can be a dick/greedy/keep a low profile/be cautious/struggle while keeping people engaged, but again, the first post made it appear as though the MC was not going to be changing much in the first 20-50 chapters.

So again, what is the point of a system if it does not affect the MC very much? If it is not a struggle against the system - which again the first post did not imply - then it is to make the MC OP in something.

An example of a struggle against a system could be the system caps the MC at a level below everyone else, the MC is then forced to outwit their opponents to advance. But to drive this point home once more, this is a struggle against a system and the first post did not make the system out to be that way.

 

[Kldran]

Personally, I think the primary point of most systems is to provide a motivation to the main character. Any main character with a system, will inherently be given at least some motivation to try and make progress with their system. For a character to ignore it, would be very strange. If the system awards points/power for killing monsters, then the main character needs to hunt monsters. If it rewards getting customers at a cafe, then they need to get customers, etc. It's a super easy to understand motivation.