Writing Why does this trope exist?

CharlesEBrown

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Then this will make you feel better: in some prison systems around the world it is. Plus they add in torture and all other kinds of nasties. No, I am not talking about officially either.
I have heard that in most prisons, anyone who commits crimes against a minor, is discovered to have done so, and is not placed in Solitary is not going to last more than a few days.

Single women were expected to remain chaste and pure virgins until marriage, anything less than that she was considered dirty. Even dying before being "dishonored" was considered the only correct answer if it was going to happen and even the only answer after being "dishonored" to maintain the families honor.
Not completely true, at least in China in the "classical era" - couples were expected to ... "bond" during the winter months and get married as soon as spring came. Japan and any place where Islamic culture took hold early on had what you describe above, but China was ... pragmatic and weird. I guess it was not considered rape if it led to a spring wedding, but was otherwise.
 

OokamiKasumi

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I have met exactly one woman who had rape fantasies (as opposed to nightmares), and I believe she was a 30-something but it's been a few years. Have also met three guys at wildly different ages who admitted to fantasies of raping women.
And about five women who admit to having been raped and ... well, their stories make me think verifiable, serial rape or rape of a minor should be a capitol offense.
What many current authors/writers may not know is that back in the early 90's the US Romance publishing industry underwent a massive upheaval.

Rape to Love; Bodice Ripper, stories were No Longer Accepted by Romance publishers. In fact, it became Unacceptable among Romance publishers nationwide.

This happened because in the 90's Romance readers utterly refused to buy the rape fantasy novels that had been wildly popular back in the late 60's to late 80's.

All of this was due to a nearly Silent sexual revolution among Women that happened in the late 70's to mid 80's. During this period in time, it became Publicly Acceptable to enjoy sex -- and not just with one's spouse.

At the time, this was very shocking.

The previous generation had been raised to believe enjoyment of sex as Sinful and Shameful. Sex was strictly for making babies. Females who actually enjoyed sex were sluts or hoes -- without exception.

In 1969 the Summer of Love happened -- and sex became acceptable for Everyone to enjoy, male and female. Only a handful of years later, sex was expected to be enjoyable, and it became perfectly Legal to divorce your spouse if it wasn't.

The main reason Bodice Ripper, rape fantasy novels became popular in the first place was because it Removed the Guilt over enjoying sex. The Hero forced the Heroine to have sex and like it. It wasn't Her fault she enjoyed having sex -- it was His.

-- By the way, I'm currently seeing a lot of Korean M/M stories using this particular trope for almost the exact same reason: to get the bottom to enjoy gay sex so much, they fall in love with their top.​

By the 80's and 90's, guilt over liking sex had been thoroughly Erased and rape became vehemently anathema; rape was no longer acceptable to females in Any form, especially not in Romance fiction.

By the early 90's, the Bodice Rippers had died a fiery death in most of the native English speaking countries, and Erotic Romances featuring Seduction but Consensual sex took over as the next form of highly erotic Romances.

Then in the 2000's, Japanese Hentai anime and Hentai games appeared, where women liking sex was suddenly Shameful again. This was followed by the Chinese Web novels, and the Korean web novels that seem to be suffering from the same problem: Sex was Shameful, and Rape & Stalking was the road to Love.

These stories smacked into the English reading Female audience, causing Culture Dysphoria.

What was commonly accepted and normalized in the East, was NOT in the US, Canada, the UK, and Australia, who had all gone through the Romance Revolution where Rape is Unacceptable in Love stories.​
Unfortunately, the male reading/watching audience never got the Romance Revolution memo -- and became avid buyers.

This has caused quite a bit of confusion among the new younger writers who completely missed the Romance Revolution back in the 90's -- mainly because they hadn't been born yet.

All those new young writers who are wondering why they're not seeing very many views and/or sales on their Harem fics and Rape to Love stories...?

All those new young Translators of Chinese, Korean, and Japanese webnovels that are oh so popular in their own countries, but again, don't have very many views among the English reading audience...?

THIS is Why:

The largest by far reading/buying audience is FEMALE, and females despise Rape and strongly dislike Harem fics, even reverse harems with one female and many males. Threesomes are fine as long as all three stay together. More active participants than three is too close to Cheating, and women Hate Cheaters.

If you want to appeal to the largest paying reading audience: WOMEN, get rid of the Harem and Rape to Love Tropes. Oh, and learn how to write proper sex scenes. I am sick and tired of sex scenes that last only a few paragraphs. That skimpy crap doesn't even come close to being satisfying.

But...! All these translated stories/games with these tropes are published, so they're fine, right?
-- Only in their own countries; China, Korea, Japan. In these countries enjoying sex outside of Marriage is still considered Shameful.
 
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RepresentingWrath

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What many current authors/writers may not know is that back in the early 90's the US Romance publishing industry underwent a massive upheaval.

Rape to Love; Bodice Ripper, stories were No Longer Accepted by Romance publishers. In fact, it became Unacceptable among Romance publishers nationwide.

This happened because the 90's Gen X readers utterly refused to buy the rape fantasy novels that had been wildly popular back in the late 60's to late 80's.

All of this was due to a nearly Silent sexual revolution among Women that happened in the late 70's to mid 80's. During this period in time, it became Publicly Acceptable to enjoy sex -- and not just with one's spouse.

At the time, this was very shocking.

The previous generation had been raised to believe enjoyment of sex as Sinful and Shameful. Sex was strictly for making babies. Females who actually enjoyed sex were sluts or a hoes -- without exception.

In 1969 the Summer of Love happened -- and sex became something Everyone enjoyed, male and female.

The main reason Bodice Rippers rape fantasy novels became popular in the first place was because it Removed the Guilt over enjoying sex. The Hero forced the Heroine to have sex and like it. It wasn't Her fault she enjoyed having sex -- it was His.

-- By the way, I'm currently seeing a lot of Korean M/M stories using the Rape to Love trope for the exact same reason: to get the bottom to enjoy gay sex then fall in love with their top.

By the 80's and 90's, guilt over liking sex had been thoroughly Erased and rape became vehemently anathema; rape was no longer acceptable to females in Any form, especially not Romance fiction.

The Bodice Rippers died a fiery death in most of the native English speaking countries, and Erotic Romances took over as the next form of highly erotic Romances.

Then came all the Japanese Hentai anime and Hentai games, where women liking sex was suddenly Shameful again. This was followed by the Chinese Web novels, and the Korean web novels that seem to be suffering from the same problem: Sex is Shameful, and Rape & Stalking is the road to Love.

These stories smacked into the English reading Female audience, causing Culture Dysphoria.
-- What is commonly accepted in their countries, is NOT in the US, Canada, the UK, and Australia, who have all gone through the Romance Revolution where Rape is Unacceptable in Love stories.

This has caused quite a bit of confusion among the newer younger writers who completely missed the Romance Revolution back in the 90's.

All those new young writers who are wondering why they're not seeing very many views and/or sales on their Harem fics and Rape to Love stories...?

All those new young Translators of Chinese, Korean, and Japanese webnovels that are oh so popular in their own countries, but again, don't have very many views among the English reading audience...?

THIS is Why:

The largest by far reading/buying audience is FEMALE, and females despise Rape and strongly dislike Harem fics, even reverse harems with one female and many males. Threesomes are fine as long as all three stay together. More active participants than three is too close to Cheating, and women Hate Cheaters.

If you want to appeal to the largest paying reading audience: WOMEN, get rid of the Harem and Rape to Love Tropes. Oh, and learn how to write proper sex scenes. I am sick and tired of sex scenes that last only a few paragraphs. That skimpy crap doesn't even come close to being satisfying.

But...! All these translated stories/games with these tropes are published, so their fine, right?
-- Only in their own countries; China, Korea, Japan. In these countries enjoying sex outside of Marriage is still considered Shameful.
:meowsip:
 

Jocelyn_Uasal

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I've gotta agree that it's just misogyny, though probably more passive than intentional. If it wasn't misogyny, then we'd see rape used as a traumatic event alot more for young male characters as well, except I've literally never seen that in media once.

Not western, but for now lets take One Piece as an example. In the manga its pretty clear that Viola was sexually abused, but there is NO CHANCE they would ever let that be implied for ANY of the male characters as well. It's seen as a "women's problem" for many people, which is hurtful to literally everyone
 

RepresentingWrath

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Jocelyn_Uasal

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Statistically speaking, rape is a pretty common female fantasy.
I think you're just confusing rape in literature which is general despised by women (you've got multiple women here saying so) with a strong, overly dominated man. 50 Shades of Grey type dominance is popular with older women, NOT rape.
 

OokamiKasumi

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Statistically speaking, rape is a pretty common female fantasy.
Not in the USA, and most English speaking countries. Rape fics have Not been acceptable since the 80's when all the Romance publishing houses refused to publish anything with Rape in it -- because their Female Reading Audience refused to buy any book with rape in it.
 

DeepWater

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I think you're just confusing rape in literature which is general despised by women (you've got multiple women here saying so) with a strong, overly dominated man. 50 Shades of Grey type dominance is popular with older women, NOT rape.
No, it's from a study. I forget the details, but it's pretty shocking how much women fantasize about rape. Way more common than you would think.
 

Jocelyn_Uasal

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Not in the USA, and most English speaking countries. Rape fics have Not been acceptable since the 80's when all the Romance publishing houses refused to publish anything with Rape in it -- because their Female Reading Audience refused to buy any book with rape in it.
THIS!! Americans like Susan Brownmiller had a HUGE effect on how sexual abuse and femininity is viewed currently
 

OokamiKasumi

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I think you're just confusing rape in literature which is general despised by women (you've got multiple women here saying so) with a strong, overly dominated man. 50 Shades of Grey type dominance is popular with older women, NOT rape.
I cannot stand 50 Shades. I fuckin' loathe it.
-- No Romance, Erotic Romance, or BDSM author or publisher I know liked that series. At All.

50shades1.jpg
 

Jocelyn_Uasal

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No, it's from a study. I forget the details, but it's pretty shocking how much women fantasize about rape. Way more common than you would think.
Imagine telling multiple women they're wrong about what women like... Maybe the study was flawed? Or done by a man with outstanding preconceived notions about what women like? Because thats ridiculous
 

OokamiKasumi

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No, it's from a study. I forget the details, but it's pretty shocking how much women fantasize about rape. Way more common than you would think.
What Year was that study done, and what Country was it published in?

You better not be getting that from "My Secret Garden" by Nancy Friday. That was published in 1973 when Bodice Ripper novels were just taking off in popularity, and women were still getting used to the idea that it was Okay to not only Like sex, but that they were allowed to fantasize about it too. That report is severely outdated and no longer applies.
 
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greyblob

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I've gotta agree that it's just misogyny, though probably more passive than intentional. If it wasn't misogyny, then we'd see rape used as a traumatic event alot more for young male characters as well, except I've literally never seen that in media once.
Ive seen male rape in multiple novels. It is portrayed as tragic and the character invloved has to deal with the trauma.
 
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