Which comes first, the theme or the story?

[Justhetip...]

Since time immemorial, stories have always been a means of communication, with the storyteller/author sending a message to the listener/reader.

Every story, intentionally or unintentionally, will inevitably have a theme. It could be comedy or tragedy. It might range from more serious themes like "good will always triumph over evil," "not all that glitters is gold," or "humanity will eventually be the one that destroys itself," down to lighthearted themes such as "life is short, so follow your dreams," or "overthinking will get you nowhere, just do it."


Yeah, even that self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy probably has its theme as "Reality is too painful to acknowledge, so I'd rather drown in my fantasies and do all that I know I can never do in real life."

So here's the question, when you're planning a story, which comes first? The theme; the point you're trying to prove, or the story itself; the argument that you give to prove this point.

I've personally noticed that in nearly all the story ideas I had/have, and still planning(and will hopefully post one day), I first of all got a cool idea, then as I was fleshing out this idea, I discovered that a central theme had wormed it's way into the story.

Though there were a few times I had planned a story with a theme in mind, and I discovered that you have to be delicate in cases like these, because you might just end up shoving the message/theme in the reader's face nearly every paragraph rather than let the story show the reader the message, and why it matters.

I believe that for most authors it's always a mix of both, sometimes the story first, sometimes the theme first, but most times, one is more frequent than the other.

So which is it for you?

 

[Akaichi]

For me it is neither, for a story, I usually start with a cool scene, or a goal that I want to achieve. Sometimes a certain feeling that I want to catch. After that I find a way to make it as fun as possible. The story and the theme comes much later and usually change several times before the novel takes it's basic form.

 

[RepresentingDesire]

I think often like you have done it themes can be just made up in ones own mind, its the death of the authors intend, the Michael bay Transformers movie are probably the best case of this happening, especially because the theme unintentional.

Still I would say theme or rather concept comes first because if you don't know what kind of story you are telling it will become chaotic, the theme will be then created through concept and story.

 

[Little-Moon]

I just usually start with a idea/scene in my head and then think about my characters and what I want to tell with them.

The topic or the message often come far later on for me. I do have one character where it happened in the extreme and now it's one of their defining features.

They have a speech impairment and are often thought as good for nothing but then end up proving again and again that just because they stutter there is no reason why they can't be just as good or better then anyone else.

 

[Spacerunner357]

Since time immemorial, stories have always been a means of communication, with the storyteller/author sending a message to the listener/reader.

Every story, intentionally or unintentionally, will inevitably have a theme. It could be comedy or tragedy. It might range from more serious themes like "good will always triumph over evil," "not all that glitters is gold," or "humanity will eventually be the one that destroys itself," down to lighthearted themes such as "life is short, so follow your dreams," or "overthinking will get you nowhere, just do it."


Yeah, even that self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy probably has its theme as "Reality is too painful to acknowledge, so I'd rather drown in my fantasies and do all that I know I can never do in real life."

So here's the question, when you're planning a story, which comes first? The theme; the point you're trying to prove, or the story itself; the argument that you give to prove this point.

I've personally noticed that in nearly all the story ideas I had/have, and still planning(and will hopefully post one day), I first of all got a cool idea, then as I was fleshing out this idea, I discovered that a central theme had wormed it's way into the story.

Though there were a few times I had planned a story with a theme in mind, and I discovered that you have to be delicate in cases like these, because you might just end up shoving the message/theme in the reader's face nearly every paragraph rather than let the story show the reader the message, and why it matters.

I believe that for most authors it's always a mix of both, sometimes the story first, sometimes the theme first, but most times, one is more frequent than the other.

So which is it for you?

I would say if I had to choose one The Story because it's easier for me to add toobut I usually come up with the creatures and then ideas the world and such where I want to go with it

 

[Golden_Hyde]

theme first, and story follows.

 

[GlassRose]

It depends on WHY you're writing. Some stories, dystopia stories like Fahrenheit 451 especially, often start with the message they're trying to get across first, and work backwards. But not all stories are made to send a message, I'd think MOST stories start from a place where the writer is either exploring a cool/fun idea they had, or is processing a real life emotion or experience of theirs via writing, and a theme or message naturally results from that, an impression of the authors worldview or hopes and wishes that is inevitable to be present in the story by virtue of being created by them, revealing a piece of themselves.

There's also the middleground, where the author starts with the idea, and then finds a theme that fits with the story they want to tell and uses that as a guideline to help direct and form the plot.

 

[naosu]

I think its not the same for everyone. Lots of people do it differently. So you can play around with it and see what feels best for you. :) Good luck.

 

[Clo]

If the Hero’s Journey is the monomyth, then I’m a monothematic author.

I don’t set out saying, “I’m going to write about Theme X.” But no matter what I create—whether it’s a genetically modified child-soldier in a sci-fi campaign, a magical construct in modern-day Vancouver, a LitRPG about VRMMO players, a D&D character, an ensemble cast in a strategy RPG, or even a nonfiction slice of my own life—it always ends up circling the same ideas.

Different coats of paint. Same underlying canvas.

Hope. Reclamation. Self-definition. Resistance. Neurodiversity. Identity. Debates on what’s real versus what’s artificial.

So, what comes first—theme or story?

If I’m the one telling it, the themes might not show up immediately. But they were always there. Because it’s me, and I can’t not write about them.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Usually my stories are all born out of a challenge. Sometimes I challenge myself (Can I write a romance? Can I write a Western with a system? Can a superhero also be a noir-esque detective?), sometimes someone else issues the challenge (Don't recall the exact challenge - it was roughly 15 years ago - but the opening scene to Strange Awakening was the response to a challenge issued either on a message board or a writing group. I had 90% of the first chapter just sitting there untouched for six years before the idea for the rest of the story appeared, and that only took me through chapter two; last year I found the files when looking for something else and everything clicked).
So, sometimes the idea comes first, sometimes the theme IS the idea and they come together, and sometimes the story is sitting there smoking its cigarette while the theme decides to finally make its appearance (and it is usually ticked at the story for not waiting...)

 

[Clo]

Can a superhero?

You just reminded me of my one attempt at writing a super hero story too!

Also the same theme as all my other works.

So yeah. While I can challenge myself for change GENRES, I can't escape my monotheme :)

 

[StoneInky]

Since time immemorial, stories have always been a means of communication, with the storyteller/author sending a message to the listener/reader.

Every story, intentionally or unintentionally, will inevitably have a theme. It could be comedy or tragedy. It might range from more serious themes like "good will always triumph over evil," "not all that glitters is gold," or "humanity will eventually be the one that destroys itself," down to lighthearted themes such as "life is short, so follow your dreams," or "overthinking will get you nowhere, just do it."


Yeah, even that self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy probably has its theme as "Reality is too painful to acknowledge, so I'd rather drown in my fantasies and do all that I know I can never do in real life."

So here's the question, when you're planning a story, which comes first? The theme; the point you're trying to prove, or the story itself; the argument that you give to prove this point.

I've personally noticed that in nearly all the story ideas I had/have, and still planning(and will hopefully post one day), I first of all got a cool idea, then as I was fleshing out this idea, I discovered that a central theme had wormed it's way into the story.

Though there were a few times I had planned a story with a theme in mind, and I discovered that you have to be delicate in cases like these, because you might just end up shoving the message/theme in the reader's face nearly every paragraph rather than let the story show the reader the message, and why it matters.

I believe that for most authors it's always a mix of both, sometimes the story first, sometimes the theme first, but most times, one is more frequent than the other.

So which is it for you?

Hm...I think that most novels start story-first. If you start with the theme, it can be really easy to make the novel sound preachy and annoying.

If the Hero’s Journey is the monomyth, then I’m a monothematic author.

I don’t set out saying, “I’m going to write about Theme X.” But no matter what I create—whether it’s a genetically modified child-soldier in a sci-fi campaign, a magical construct in modern-day Vancouver, a LitRPG about VRMMO players, a D&D character, an ensemble cast in a strategy RPG, or even a nonfiction slice of my own life—it always ends up circling the same ideas.

Different coats of paint. Same underlying canvas.

Hope. Reclamation. Self-definition. Resistance. Neurodiversity. Identity. Debates on what’s real versus what’s artificial.

So, what comes first—theme or story?

If I’m the one telling it, the themes might not show up immediately. But they were always there. Because it’s me, and I can’t not write about them.

I agree with Clo. It looks like my novels are monothematic too. Accepting mistakes. Introspection. The complexity of trust and hope. What's real vs what's fake. (Same, Clo, lmao. Maybe neurodivergents think alike.)

I find it difficult to write about themes I do not believe in. For example, stuff about good vs evil, justice, or gaining power. They are really common themes, but I can't vibe with em well.

 

[blotchybrothblobs]

It starts with the author.

The author has a story to tell, a lesson to teach, an idea to sell.

They determine where to start and which steps to take next.

If the parts of a story are put together cohesively, then a theme will naturally develop as its center of mass.

If an idea is compelling, then any number of stories can be drawn out around it, characters interacting with the same idea.

If it is a two-way street which is paved this way and that by many, many people like this, can't it simply be considered a preference?

Hm, though I may say that a theme can produce many stories, whereas a story seems like it could more easily tend towards a certain theme, even if audience members interpret it differently..

Well, I say that this here comment is a story drawn out from a theme, an idea tossing around themes and stories. I conceived of the argument after the thesis.

 

[Anonjohn20]

Which comes first, the theme or the story?

Me overthinking everything, "Clearly, this is a trick question. It's the author that comes first!"

It starts with the author.

Me seeing this immediately after I finished writing my comment, "He beat me to it."

 

[Eliose]

Well I would say theme comes first. Theme gives you an overall idea of how your story would prologue. And it gives you a stable structure and to insert new idea in mid way. Also, it gives you a niche on which you have to attract your readers.
Continuing with story directly is not bad, but it only works for short-run like if you have 50-60 chapters. In long-run for 90+chapters continuing with just story in mind would be difficult.

 

[SurfAngel_1031]

Since time immemorial, stories have always been a means of communication, with the storyteller/author sending a message to the listener/reader.

Every story, intentionally or unintentionally, will inevitably have a theme. It could be comedy or tragedy. It might range from more serious themes like "good will always triumph over evil," "not all that glitters is gold," or "humanity will eventually be the one that destroys itself," down to lighthearted themes such as "life is short, so follow your dreams," or "overthinking will get you nowhere, just do it."


Yeah, even that self-insert wish-fulfillment fantasy probably has its theme as "Reality is too painful to acknowledge, so I'd rather drown in my fantasies and do all that I know I can never do in real life."

So here's the question, when you're planning a story, which comes first? The theme; the point you're trying to prove, or the story itself; the argument that you give to prove this point.

I've personally noticed that in nearly all the story ideas I had/have, and still planning(and will hopefully post one day), I first of all got a cool idea, then as I was fleshing out this idea, I discovered that a central theme had wormed it's way into the story.

Though there were a few times I had planned a story with a theme in mind, and I discovered that you have to be delicate in cases like these, because you might just end up shoving the message/theme in the reader's face nearly every paragraph rather than let the story show the reader the message, and why it matters.

I believe that for most authors it's always a mix of both, sometimes the story first, sometimes the theme first, but most times, one is more frequent than the other.

So which is it for you?

I wrote one genre anyway, so my themes are typically close to one another. What honestly happens is I will see the couple together in a moment.
That moment ends up being what I work through to develop the entire story. I hear the Characters names, see their past and then develop the plot.
After that I outline the path, then double check my idea, then begin my first chapter outline.
That's pretty much it.