Where does wish fulfillment go too far?

[ThisAdamGuy]

I'm pretty sure everyone here has at least heard the criticism that a story is just "author wish fulfillment." And while this can be a legitimate criticism, you also can't deny that there's an element of wish fulfillment in every story ever written. The hero beats the villain, falls in love with their soulmate, and lives happily ever after. A story with no wish fulfillment at all wouldn't be satisfying to read. Even stories that go out of their way to buck conventional storytelling cliches like A Song of Ice and Fire feature some degree of wish fulfillment, because otherwise you wouldn't be so invested in watching the characters struggle to get what they want. So where do you think the line is drawn when wish fulfillment goes too far and becomes detrimental to the story?

Personally, I think it's when it becomes clear the author is going out of their way to make their characters play out their personal fantasies to the point that it stops being plausible even by fantasy standards. Like, tell me that a lonely nerd gets sent to a magical world where he gets superpowers, kills the bad guy, and everyone loves him, and I'd be able to buy that without too much trouble. But if you told me the lonely nerd got sent to a world populated only by beautiful women who haven't invented clothes, he's transformed into a seven foot tall adonis with a massive, perpetually rock-hard [SET OF ABS], the women are divided into tribes that each personify one of the author's fetishes, his divine mission is to repopulate the planet, and also he can turn into a pegasus, my suspension of disbelief would probably collapse like the Golden Gate Bridge in an action movie.

What about you?

 

[SirDogeTheFirst]

50 shades of gray.

Like that's it, that book, the ultimate wish fulfillment (and also that one episode of the PPG remake where one of the directors shipped his self-insert with blossom, but I don't want to talk about that, because my day is already bad and I don't want it getting worse.)

 

[beast_regards]

Good thing Royal Road banned wish fulfilment :)

But if you told me the lonely nerd got sent to a world populated only by beautiful women who haven't invented clothes, he's transformed into a seven foot tall adonis with a massive, perpetually rock-hard [SET OF ABS], the women are divided into tribes that each personify one of the author's fetishes, his divine mission is to repopulate the planet

Someone read the Makalang series, I see ...

 

[expentio]

You also notice it's wish fulfillment if the story itself isn't all that creative. Like, the MC never gets into real trouble, stays always above problems, and can't fail. An author on the wish-fulfillment trip won't allow for his precious self-insert to live through hard times. That would ruin their fantasy. Therefore, there are no stakes and the MC is always the coolest in the room. Can't share that spotlight, right?
If a story has this, it already by default feels off, and not worth reading.

 

[QuercusMalus]

When the story is just a series of ways to showcase how overwhelmingly badass/awesome the character is. Well it doesn't need to be at the torture porn level of GoT, they should need to at least work a little to achieve everything.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

And while this can be a legitimate criticism, you also can't deny that there's an element of wish fulfillment in every story ever written.

I can though? Because you haven't defined what wish fulfillment is. Based on what you've written, I get a feeling as if everything that has a good ending is a wish fulfillment or has an element of it, same for darker stuff. What about classics?

Answering your question, I judge it on a case by case basis.

 

[John_Owl]

You also notice it's wish fulfillment if the story itself isn't all that creative. Like, the MC never gets into real trouble, stays always above problems, and can't fail. An author on the wish-fulfillment trip won't allow for his precious self-insert to live through hard times. That would ruin their fantasy. Therefore, there are no stakes and the MC is always the coolest in the room. Can't share that spotlight, right?
If a story has this, it already by default feels off, and not worth reading.

This. "If a character never suffers, is it even really a story?" Like, yeah, we hate to see our characters (be they who we wish we could be, who we wish we could be with, or who we want to see more of in the world) suffer, but it's that suffering that makes the end goal worthwhile. no one would read a story where Naofumi shows up and someone says "Hey friend! Here's an enslaved raccoon girl, a giant bird that can turn into a humanoid, and the princess of a nation. That's your mansion and here's a million units of currency." Yeah, that would be grand for the character. BUT you'd get people reading one, MAYBE two chapters, then demanding a refund (Even on here, where reading it is free, they'd demand a refund of the time wasted).

As humans, we CRAVE conflict. We are a violent species. Rising of a Shield Hero is only good BECAUSE Naofumi suffers so much, so you're left wondering how the hell he's gonna deal with this new turn, this new accusation, this new psycho-babbling-bit- I'm getting off-topic. My bad. But you get my point. We're only interested in the destination BECAUSE of the journey.

 

[BearlyAlive]

The moment wish fulfillment starts to hinder either plot or character development is the moment it gets too much, imho

 

[TheMonotonePuppet]

I'm pretty sure everyone here has at least heard the criticism that a story is just "author wish fulfillment." And while this can be a legitimate criticism, you also can't deny that there's an element of wish fulfillment in every story ever written. The hero beats the villain, falls in love with their soulmate, and lives happily ever after. A story with no wish fulfillment at all wouldn't be satisfying to read. Even stories that go out of their way to buck conventional storytelling cliches like A Song of Ice and Fire feature some degree of wish fulfillment, because otherwise you wouldn't be so invested in watching the characters struggle to get what they want. So where do you think the line is drawn when wish fulfillment goes too far and becomes detrimental to the story?

Personally, I think it's when it becomes clear the author is going out of their way to make their characters play out their personal fantasies to the point that it stops being plausible even by fantasy standards. Like, tell me that a lonely nerd gets sent to a magical world where he gets superpowers, kills the bad guy, and everyone loves him, and I'd be able to buy that without too much trouble. But if you told me the lonely nerd got sent to a world populated only by beautiful women who haven't invented clothes, he's transformed into a seven foot tall adonis with a massive, perpetually rock-hard [SET OF ABS], the women are divided into tribes that each personify one of the author's fetishes, his divine mission is to repopulate the planet, and also he can turn into a pegasus, my suspension of disbelief would probably collapse like the Golden Gate Bridge in an action movie.

What about you?

One of the areas I can tell you does NOT make a story inherently wish fulfillment, despite many people saying otherwise, is a story being fan fiction.

While fan fiction is often thought of as a wish fulfillment-dominated genre, too often is it slapped with the criticism that a story is just "author wish fulfillment." It burns me, seeing the creative works of passionate individuals who, inspired by their favorite works, create wonderful little seeds for future writing only for those seeds to shrivel in the salt of casual dismissal of fan fiction as a whole as wish fulfillment.

My rant aside, the fan fictions where the protagonist travels the multiverse fucking every female character that ever caught the author’s eyes is definitely just author wish fulfillment. So I would say that plot driven solely or primarily by lust tends to be just wish fulfillment.

I promise you though. Even porno novels can avoid the criticism of being just wish fulfillment. (I haven’t found any… but that just means I haven’t looked hard enough! …not that I am going to. I’ll leave that to people who have greater sexual appetites than I do). I believe every genre has its place and shouldn’t be overlooked.

 

[Rezcore]

This is oddly specific

But if you told me the lonely nerd got sent to a world populated only by beautiful women who haven't invented clothes, he's transformed into a seven foot tall adonis with a massive, perpetually rock-hard [SET OF ABS], the women are divided into tribes that each personify one of the author's fetishes, his divine mission is to repopulate the planet, and also he can turn into a pegasus, my suspension of disbelief would probably collapse like the Golden Gate Bridge in an action movie.

 

[TheKillingAlice]

I'd be with @SailusGebel on the missing definition of wish fulfullment. I wouldn't know what counts, aside from the given example, which is very specific and obviously hyperbolized. Like @TheMonotonePuppet I also think that specifically FanFiction is called constant wish fulfillment and overall being frowned upon for no reason. If you look at stories at large, there's a much porn and bad writing in original works as there is in FanFiction. And in situations like shipping two characters that would not be together normally, can one really talk about "wish fulfillment" if the fact that two characters get together that wouldn't get together originally is simply one part of the story? Even in a shortstory that's mainly smut, it's still a story written about the dynamic between two characters.
When I used to write FanFiction, I never understood why my story was seen as ridiculous when I used characters from a franchise that existed prior to my work, but once I changed the names, since the rest was usually my own work, it was a normal novel (still not a professional work and still not taken seriously, but it was still suddenly on a different existencial level).

 

[georgelee5786]

When it becomes poorly written

 

[RepresentingCaution]

It never goes too far. There is only stuff you like and stuff you don't like. Someone out there will always like it. Let them enjoy it without making them feel guilty for it.

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

It never goes too far. There is only stuff you like and stuff you don't like. Someone out there will always like it. Let them enjoy it without making them feel guilty for it.

I like making people feel guilty for enjoying bad writing. Stop trying to make me feel guilty for that.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

When it is both obvious and lazy.

 

[Dieter]

Any story is shit when characters break character. Even something as little as the way a character talks or present themselves breaks character.
Happens a lot in fanfics, as it mostly has to do with inexperience, not necessarily of craft, but wisdom. I sound like an old man saying this, but unironically characters won't break character if the author was versed in how people thought and acted, etc. When character breaks character, we see 'this is what the author would do if he were in this situation', not 'this is what the character would do'.

 

[Story_Marc]

It goes too far when it gets in the way of you connecting with your intended audience.

 

[Snake99]

there is a game of PlayStation where just that happens

 

[NotaNuffian]

Good thing Royal Road banned wish fulfilment :)


Someone read the Makalang series, I see ...

Lol it is in kindle

And the cover arts make it look so R18.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

It never goes too far. There is only stuff you like and stuff you don't like. Someone out there will always like it. Let them enjoy it without making them feel guilty for it.

Supremely based mother of the hub.