What's wrong?

[foxes]

It's strange. When you write a post and people respond to it and discuss it, everything is fine. It seems like you can relax a bit after something serious. But no one has any reaction. What's wrong with this text?

How and how strongly does the feeling of empathy resonate in you when the hero falls? Like this - smack and into a pancake. Or like Neo in the Matrix when he first jumps. It doesn't matter. It all starts with a sense of lightness, dizziness, and fear. A chill runs through your body. Your blood rushes to your tongue. I think for those who have jumped out of a plane, feeling this moment is not a problem. But a second later - bam!

The climax is like nails being driven into your heels, your bones aching, and your balls itching. Not the hero's, but yours, at the sight of a crashed car or a broken face. Or is it?

Usually, this moment should be unexpected. But even in games, when you know that the character is about to fall, it's not always possible to avoid it. The interesting part is that I've been on these "upside-down" roller coasters and other attractions many times, and I haven't even batted an eyelid. However, this is different. Perhaps it's because it's too safe for me, and there's no one to empathize with. Nevertheless, in the movie "Home Alone"... Those poor thugs. I was completely shaken when one of them fell from the second floor. It's funny, and I want to cry.

Is this the case everywhere, or did I just make a mistake with the planet?

 

[L1aei]

Is this the case everywhere, or did I just make a mistake with the planet?

Empathy doesn't echo in a vacuum.

What you've got going on is a description of physical sensation, and it's pretty damn vivid, but empathy isn't physical, it's relational. That's a distinction a lot of writing trips over. Readers don't respond to impact alone; they respond to someone being impacted.

You mentioned jumping out of an airplane, so let's use that. When you expect the fall to land with readers and it doesn't, it's often because there's no one there yet. No character; just a crater as evidence of impact.

What I mean is this: you've got that impact I keep talking about, but no one relatable to absorb it. Without a character, all that's left is the crater, and most readers aren't eager to step into unexplained holes.

 

[foxes]

What you've got going on is a description of physical sensation, and it's pretty damn vivid, but empathy isn't physical, it's relational.

I mean, no goosebumps. You just think you know everything, right?

Readers don't respond to impact alone; they respond to someone being impacted.

I was still thinking about the feeling. Everyone has their own hero.

you've got that impact I keep talking about, but no one relatable to absorb it.

Neither Neo falling through the asphalt nor the bandits from "Home Alone" are characters for you? And if you think about the feelings? Didn't you have a hero whose fall caused something similar?

 

[L1aei]

Ah, fuck... you responded too soon after I had two shots of vodka. Alright, let's do this.

I mean, no goosebumps. You just think you know everything, right?

I can only know everything I think, so... yes?

I was still thinking about the feeling. Everyone has their own hero.

Not gonna lie, I had to go back and reread your post to comprehend this. Hold on... give me a minute. Okay, you're saying empathy is internally supplied by the reader, not constructed by whatever text is provided. You want smartypants to read your stuff. Nice. I think we can be friends there. But that’s exactly the problem.

Look, if the reader has to bring their own hero to the page, the text you put effort into isn't doing the work. That’s not empathy... what the fuck is that? A substitution? A substitution. Yeah, let's go with that. It's a substitution.

Hear me out: a story doesn't trigger empathy by reminding... well, at least me of something else I care about. It earns it by making me care here, about this person, in this moment. You get me?

Lemme be totally transparent about this:
1. You sexy devil, you don't deny their experience this way.
2. You awesome man-meat, you get to reassert the craft principle.
3. Profit???
4. You excellent example of a human being, you get to draw a line between memory and narrative function. Wow!

Neither Neo falling through the asphalt nor the bandits from "Home Alone" are characters for you? And if you think about the feelings? Didn't you have a hero whose fall caused something similar?

Shiiiiit... oaay, I lick up what I can of my senses and respond to this. Third shot, heere I go.

Look, that wimp Neo works because we already know who he is before he jumps. He ain't a hero yet.

The agents work because we've watched them be cruel, stupid, persistent, and... I guess "human" for an hour before they eat pavement. The fall isn't doing the emotional labor. What is doing all the heavy lifting is the setup. You got that blueprint and don't lose it. It's excellent. Keep it close to your heart, but that blueprint doesn't do the heavy construction, just lays it out how to.

Now then, let's strip that context away and all you're left with... fuck. What is it called again? Oh yeah! Yeeeeah! Physics. We can't write without something relatable to the real world. And physics doesn't generate empathy. Nah, if empathy came from impact alone, car crash compilations would be great literature.

What I am getting at here is that empathy isn't a reflex the reader supplies. What is it then? Itis strange litle, funny, doohickey. A bond the writer constructs. So, use that really cool blueprint you already got mastered and start building it!

 

[foxes]

What I am getting at here is that empathy isn't a reflex the reader supplies. What is it then? Itis strange litle, funny, doohickey. A bond the writer constructs. So, use that really cool blueprint you already got mastered and start building it!

Okay, Earthman, I think I get it. I'll tell them that watching Charlie Chaplin's cut-out fall usually doesn't make your hair stand on end. Damn, what about those two-second shorts?

I know one theory. Before people started walking on two legs, they created tribes of no more than 150 people. This was because they couldn't remember more acquaintances. This caused discontent, and strangers were expelled. However, when they started drinking strong beverages, the number increased. As a result, people began building cities and countries. This means that everyone knows each other, and they don't need a long story to feel the fall of an acquaintance in a short film. Is that correct?

 

[L1aei]

Okay, Earthman, I think I get it. I'll tell them that watching Charlie Chaplin's cut-out fall usually doesn't make your hair stand on end. Damn, what about those two-second shorts?

God damn, somebody help me. I can't keep speaking. God... I'm busting a gut. You're good. @foxes Thank you for poking fun at me.

 

[CinnaSloth]

How and how strongly does the feeling of empathy resonate in you when the hero falls? Like this - smack and into a pancake. Or like Neo in the Matrix when he first jumps. It doesn't matter. It all starts with a sense of lightness, dizziness, and fear. A chill runs through your body. Your blood rushes to your tongue. I think for those who have jumped out of a plane, feeling this moment is not a problem. But a second later - bam!

The climax is like nails being driven into your heels, your bones aching, and your balls itching. Not the hero's, but yours, at the sight of a crashed car or a broken face. Or is it?

Usually, this moment should be unexpected. But even in games, when you know that the character is about to fall, it's not always possible to avoid it. The interesting part is that I've been on these "upside-down" roller coasters and other attractions many times, and I haven't even batted an eyelid. However, this is different. Perhaps it's because it's too safe for me, and there's no one to empathize with. Nevertheless, in the movie "Home Alone"... Those poor thugs. I was completely shaken when one of them fell from the second floor. It's funny, and I want to cry.

How and how strongly does the feeling of empathy resonate in you when the hero falls? Like this - smack and into a pancake.
I laugh. This is straight Tom n Jerry, or looney tunes antics.
If you're talking about people cracking their skulls on pavement, I've seen my own traumatic events, and have my own sets of PTSD, and somewhere deep down I'm probably screwed up because of it, but that's another story. When it comes to other people. Sorry I've dealt with a lot of death of friends, family, and loved ones, I'm pretty numb to it now.

Or like Neo in the Matrix when he first jumps. It doesn't matter. It all starts with a sense of lightness, dizziness, and fear.
...Not really. It's anticipation, and acknowledgement of failure. At this scene, he's with Morpheus. He's learning. It's expected of Neo to fail first try. The crew were even taking bets aboard the ship. The anticipation of possible success, first try, is the point of that scene. Spoiler, he failed.

A chill runs through your body. Your blood rushes to your tongue. I think for those who have jumped out of a plane, feeling this moment is not a problem. But a second later - bam!
Nope. Sorry. I couldn't careless. Adrenaline is something people experience, and fear of that experience going wrong is what keeps that intoxication thrilling. If people want to jump out of planes that's their business. When it goes wrong, that's their business too. They make you sign a release form because it's an actual risk of death. Death seekers, thrill seekers, adrenaline junkies, it doesn't matter. A valid Risk taker will never be the same as someone who sits at home reading, or writing books. Their life, their choice. I, personally, have no sympathies for people actively searching for that high.

The climax is like nails being driven into your heels, your bones aching, and your balls itching. Not the hero's, but yours, at the sight of a crashed car or a broken face. Or is it?
None what-so-ever. I drive by car accidents just fine without the need to slow down. In fact, I'm more angry at the fact THEY crashed, slowing MY drive to wherever I need to go. Please hurry up, and get their asses out of my lane.

even in games, when you know that the character is about to fall, it's not always possible to avoid it.
Then, it's a bad game. It's scripted. IF IT IS scripted, that I cannot win through skill, being overpowered, or straight up cheating; No matter what, cannot win. THAT IS A BAD GAME.

The interesting part is that I've been on these "upside-down" roller coasters and other attractions many times, and I haven't even batted an eyelid. However, this is different. Perhaps it's because it's too safe for me, and there's no one to empathize with
So, take someone? I don't know what you want from this. Are you saying your lonely, and depressed, and need some kind of friendship? Because I don't think this is the way to do it. If you need therapy, I don't think this is the way to do it. If you're looking for dr*gs... then I don't think you're on the right site.

Nevertheless, in the movie "Home Alone"... Those poor thugs. I was completely shaken when one of them fell from the second floor. It's funny, and I want to cry.
So.. you're upset? or upset that it was funny? I don't understand what we're doing here.

Is this the case everywhere, or did I just make a mistake with the planet?
Hello, god? Hey, gOd, I have a few bones to pick with your dumbass about my own life issues. Fix this crap now! You already know what they are, gOD.

What's wrong with this text?
It's boring, unrelatable, and sounds like old men shouting at clouds.

Ah, fuck... you responded too soon after I had two shots of vodka. Alright, let's do this.



I can only know everything I think, so... yes?




Not gonna lie, I had to go back and reread your post to comprehend this. Hold on... give me a minute. Okay, you're saying empathy is internally supplied by the reader, not constructed by whatever text is provided. You want smartypants to read your stuff. Nice. I think we can be friends there. But that’s exactly the problem.

Look, if the reader has to bring their own hero to the page, the text you put effort into isn't doing the work. That’s not empathy... what the fuck is that? A substitution? A substitution. Yeah, let's go with that. It's a substitution.

Hear me out: a story doesn't trigger empathy by reminding... well, at least me of something else I care about. It earns it by making me care here, about this person, in this moment. You get me?

Lemme be totally transparent about this:
1. You sexy devil, you don't deny their experience this way.
2. You awesome man-meat, you get to reassert the craft principle.
3. Profit???
4. You excellent example of a human being, you get to draw a line between memory and narrative function. Wow!



Shiiiiit... oaay, I lick up what I can of my senses and respond to this. Third shot, heere I go.

Look, that wimp Neo works because we already know who he is before he jumps. He ain't a hero yet.

The agents work because we've watched them be cruel, stupid, persistent, and... I guess "human" for an hour before they eat pavement. The fall isn't doing the emotional labor. What is doing all the heavy lifting is the setup. You got that blueprint and don't lose it. It's excellent. Keep it close to your heart, but that blueprint doesn't do the heavy construction, just lays it out how to.

Now then, let's strip that context away and all you're left with... fuck. What is it called again? Oh yeah! Yeeeeah! Physics. We can't write without something relatable to the real world. And physics doesn't generate empathy. Nah, if empathy came from impact alone, car crash compilations would be great literature.

What I am getting at here is that empathy isn't a reflex the reader supplies. What is it then? Itis strange litle, funny, doohickey. A bond the writer constructs. So, use that really cool blueprint you already got mastered and start building it!

...What? lol.
..like... what?

Okay, Earthman, I think I get it. I'll tell them that watching Charlie Chaplin's cut-out fall usually doesn't make your hair stand on end. Damn, what about those two-second shorts?

I know one theory. Before people started walking on two legs, they created tribes of no more than 150 people. This was because they couldn't remember more acquaintances. This caused discontent, and strangers were expelled. However, when they started drinking strong beverages, the number increased. As a result, people began building cities and countries. This means that everyone knows each other, and they don't need a long story to feel the fall of an acquaintance in a short film. Is that correct?

Take Taylor swift's music for example.
Not everyone is going to be a swifty, but can still enjoy a few songs.
not everyone is a 13 year old girl crying in the front row because her favorite song.
not everyone gives a crap about taylor swift to begin with.
There are people in the world that would rather send death threats, than love letters.
And other's dont even know the name and live in a bubble.
there's all kinds of people.

Not everyone sees an old man fall and runs to help.

 

[foxes]

even in games, when you know that the character is about to fall, it's not always possible to avoid it.
Then, it's a bad game. It's scripted. IF IT IS scripted, that I cannot win through skill, being overpowered, or straight up cheating; No matter what, cannot win. THAT IS A BAD GAME.

I think you've gone too far in your reasoning. I won't try to dissuade you. Imagine Skyrim. When you press the jump key, you jump and fall. If it's a small hill, it's fine. But when you fall off a mountain, I can't help but feel like I'm about to be hit with a heavy stick.

 

[Tsuru]

It's strange. When you write a post and people respond to it and discuss it, everything is fine. It seems like you can relax a bit after something serious. But no one has any reaction. What's wrong with this text?

Is this the case everywhere, or did I just make a mistake with the planet?

I didnt catch all the context, but i agree that HomeAlone thugs are very pitiful and it feel painful seeing them suffer. Its as if you feel their pain.
Meanwhile not so much for Neo falling on the ground. Though kinda feel hurtful a little but its slap lvl kind of hurt-empathy or like running to a wall.


....And that is why i fking hate this movie (Home alone). Bc its mostly about seeing the suffering of this dudes. Im all for seeing bad guys suffer, but not fan of being spectator of it. That is why "mesugaki get retribution" mangas (safe ones) never succeed = bc they show the pov of mesugaki suffer.

Especially the skeleton scene/electrocuted one.
(I mean, sure its not a real one, but goddamn i hate that at that generation some stuffs were far too unhinged)(meanwhile too safe now or worse like THE BOYS or Invincible)

ps : To be honest, home alone is basically a giant-longer blooper video. At that time, ton of people loved to see videos of people slip and falling headfirst on the ground or do cake-on-face pranks.
And well, im not one of them.

I think you've gone too far in your reasoning. I won't try to dissuade you. Imagine Skyrim. When you press the jump key, you jump and fall. If it's a small hill, it's fine. But when you fall off a mountain, I can't help but feel like I'm about to be hit with a heavy stick.

Like he said, he had 2 shots of vodka.

And im not saying that people never lie on internet, but some people on SHF indeed truthful and/or like to drink alcohol, so its not impossible they indeed drank vodka and not clear-minded.

 

[CinnaSloth]

I think you've gone too far in your reasoning. I won't try to dissuade you. Imagine Skyrim. When you press the jump key, you jump and fall. If it's a small hill, it's fine. But when you fall off a mountain, I can't help but feel like I'm about to be hit with a heavy stick.

I don't think I've EVER fallen off the mountain I didn't purposely jump off of in skyrim..
that's either skill issue, or you got snuck up on, and thrown from the mountain.
and it didn't cause any emotion when I did jump. I expected to die the moment i leapt.
IF i happened to live the jump, that would be more of a surprise.

I didnt catch all the context, but i agree that HomeAlone thugs are very pitiful and it feel painful seeing them suffer. Its as if you feel their pain.

I disagree. They could have left at any time. They didn't need to burgle that house in particular, and after getting a wrench to the head, they should have left. They chose to stay. I feel no empathy. In the second movie when they caught Kevin, if they had kicked his butt, it would have also been deserved. You don't attack people not expecting retaliation.. but that said, I hate home alone because it's a stupid movie with a horrible plot.

 

[CinnaSloth]

Its like men feel hurt when seeing another one get kicked in the nuts, maybe?

Which is an internet lie. I know plenty of men that don't wince or cry like babies when watching videos like that.
To tell the truth, most guys I know just laugh, and call the one that got hit a dumbass. and even the guy hit normally walks it off after a minute.
It's not like sitcoms, or movies represent it to be. any guy who does flinch is either a wimp or has never been hit in the nuts, very much overreacting like the shows they watch..

Which i guess is a big recurring problem for the female gene/DNA

What do you mean by that??

 

[L1aei]

What do you mean by that??

I second this. What?

 

[OniKaniki]

I know plenty of men that don't wince or cry like babies when watching videos like that.

that is the one you know. you just assume all people like you. not everyone laughting. each people are different, each country and culture are different. just because you know some guys doesnt mean you know all of them.

tbh, i feel hurt when watching it. get hit two times in my childhood. it hurt. call me wimp all you want, it is what it is.

that's why i dont watch any movie that using it as comedic plot. it feel extremely rude.

but gotta admit, that one scene from one punch man is funny. it hurt, but funny.

That is why "mesugaki get retribution" mangas (safe ones) never succeed = bc they show the pov of mesugaki suffer.

did a quick gg search about this "mesugaki get retribution" manga ...oh my...i forgot to add (safe one).
Do you mean that if they show other pov, then it will succeed. you might want to try to read "Mesugaki Tank Enters The Academy". they succeed using msgk pov.


Anyway, i like that volka guy, gonna add you in my story! very great for characterization! we joke, we laugh, we suppress our trauma.

 

[AliceMoonvale]

Ah, fuck... you responded too soon after I had two shots of vodka. Alright, let's do this.



I can only know everything I think, so... yes?




Not gonna lie, I had to go back and reread your post to comprehend this. Hold on... give me a minute. Okay, you're saying empathy is internally supplied by the reader, not constructed by whatever text is provided. You want smartypants to read your stuff. Nice. I think we can be friends there. But that’s exactly the problem.

Look, if the reader has to bring their own hero to the page, the text you put effort into isn't doing the work. That’s not empathy... what the fuck is that? A substitution? A substitution. Yeah, let's go with that. It's a substitution.

Hear me out: a story doesn't trigger empathy by reminding... well, at least me of something else I care about. It earns it by making me care here, about this person, in this moment. You get me?

Lemme be totally transparent about this:
1. You sexy devil, you don't deny their experience this way.
2. You awesome man-meat, you get to reassert the craft principle.
3. Profit???
4. You excellent example of a human being, you get to draw a line between memory and narrative function. Wow!



Shiiiiit... oaay, I lick up what I can of my senses and respond to this. Third shot, heere I go.

Look, that wimp Neo works because we already know who he is before he jumps. He ain't a hero yet.

The agents work because we've watched them be cruel, stupid, persistent, and... I guess "human" for an hour before they eat pavement. The fall isn't doing the emotional labor. What is doing all the heavy lifting is the setup. You got that blueprint and don't lose it. It's excellent. Keep it close to your heart, but that blueprint doesn't do the heavy construction, just lays it out how to.

Now then, let's strip that context away and all you're left with... fuck. What is it called again? Oh yeah! Yeeeeah! Physics. We can't write without something relatable to the real world. And physics doesn't generate empathy. Nah, if empathy came from impact alone, car crash compilations would be great literature.

What I am getting at here is that empathy isn't a reflex the reader supplies. What is it then? Itis strange litle, funny, doohickey. A bond the writer constructs. So, use that really cool blueprint you already got mastered and start building it!

Ayyy you were drinking while posting on here too? Amen.

 

[L1aei]

Ayyy you were drinking while posting on here too? Amen.

Yep! Had four shots of a cocktail after that too, and now I'm enjoying a... uh, what did this cigar call itself. Ah, Rocky Patel "THE EDGE".

 

[Woolen_Monkey]

I read the first three posts…

 

[Tsuru]

What do you mean by that??

I second this. What?

The DNA of empathy in women.

(deleted post and reposted it, sorry for notif)

Edit: Found this coincidentally just now.

 

[foxes]

It feels like a lot of people just heard about empathy somewhere and now they're talking about it just to be like everyone else or to be different. But in reality, they're just robots.