What is the INT stat?

[Biggest-Kusa-Out-There]

If you declare that races can learn and in this case [int] would be a matter of how fast, there're some nice ways to go around it like getting 1/2 int per birthday, so he'd have 2 int age 1 minimum 4 int age 2 minimum, it would show that he learns faster as a 2-year-old than when he was younger.
Can also make titles that help their growth like learning how to crawl/walk giving them a little int bonus, just a matter of originality, systems are really fun to make due to how free they are, kind of like programming, just easier. hehe

That creates a loop, unfortunately. You see, speech is not something easily handwaved or explained through a system. Speech (especially complex speech) is, if not the most, one of the most important aspects of humanity when differenciating ourselves from animals.
Toddlers start talking at 12 months old, meaning they begin picking up on language and speech a little before that through imitation.
Does 1 point of intelligence make that possible? Let's not even talk about the number here, but the stat itself. If x points of int allow speech to develop, at which amount does it allow for a person to easily learn every language in the world? Are wizards the most empathic beings in existance? Do wars not exist because the powerful people realized the imporance of INT, thus focus on cultural advancements?

If you show, tell, and depict your character becoming smarter through the increase of a stat, WHY is no one else doing it? A lot of world-consitency is questioned with these details.
If the world is at peace and is a literal utopia, I may buy the fact INT increases soft intelligence in any measure. Only if everyone has a system.

If only the mc has a system, then all I said is worth shit.

Sure, it'd be fun. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm only pointing out a huge inconsitency point. You're giving a stat too much power.

 

[whitesculptor]

That creates a loop, unfortunately. You see, speech is not something easily handwaved or explained through a system. Speech (especially complex speech) is, if not the most, one of the most important aspects of humanity when differenciating ourselves from animals.
Toddlers start talking at 12 months old, meaning they begin picking up on language and speech a little before that through imitation.
Does 1 point of intelligence make that possible? Let's not even talk about the number here, but the stat itself. If x points of int allow speech to develop, at which amount does it allow for a person to easily learn every language in the world? Are wizards the most empathic beings in existance? Do wars not exist because the powerful people realized the imporance of INT, thus focus on cultural advancements?

If you show, tell, and depict your character becoming smarter through the increase of a stat, WHY is no one else doing it? A lot of world-consitency is questioned with these details.
If the world is at peace and is a literal utopia, I may buy the fact INT increases soft intelligence in any measure. Only if everyone has a system.

If only the mc has a system, then all I said is worth shit.

Sure, it'd be fun. I'm not saying it's bad. I'm only pointing out a huge inconsitency point. You're giving a stat too much power.

I do it on large scales and create the necessity to not only invest in just int, as there are other stats that are important to have, having high int helps you learn stuff, wisdom helps with using such int properly, but I do get your point, and yes there's a "balanced system" for everyone to choose whatever they want, but it requires points which require getting experience, etc, even if the character has high int it won't defeat an opponent with just that, enough speed the opponent may have that counters him, or is wiser in the ways of skills, perhaps enough strength to throw a rock at a speed we can't calculate to dodge, with high enough stats it would reach what you tipped, but I expect that at the end game of the said novel whereas every abnormality of being "op" turns it into normality.
An example of this is how every MMORPG starts with a character doing a quest where he has to pick a herb or give a letter to someone and ends up with it defeating some god/deity/demon lord whatever.
I try to make it as balanced as possible, however, with enough creativity people will find ways to exploit given points it is natural.
Nonetheless thank you for your share of knowledge I will be using it to solidify my own approach as every help is always well given and quite welcome! Cheers & Happy reading!

 

[Jemini]

I'm actually in the middle of creating a LiteRPG right now with a stats system. I decided to go with 6 stats, 3 for body and 3 for mind.

As to not spoil too much, I will limit this discussion to intelligence and wisdom.

Wisdom is your intuition and ability to realize what is happening in the world around you. It also has some bleed-over into physical stats as it relates to your perception.

Intelligence is your ability to think innovatively and come up with clever and novel approaches. It measures your problem solving ability. If you combine intelligence and wisdom together, the two in combination are required to come up with effective plans.

The challenge with writing a liteRPG in which the mental stats actually influence the mental functions of your character are that you have to really be extra careful how you write the high INT and high WIS characters.

 

[GreenHexagon]

I did not expect this to get this large. Thanks for the responses though.

 

[Lloyd]

warrior = strength, rouge = dexterity, mage = intelligence

 

[trinitys_gadget]

So... Stats and RPGs. Guessing from the responses, there aren't any many table-top, d20 gamers in this crowd.
In DnD and similar games systems, stats are used to estimate a person's innate, untrained ability to perform a task relevant to the stat in question. The original intent of these stats is to contrain the actions of the characters to some realm of reason defined by the dungeon master (or game master, if you prefer). In many ways, the whole LitRPG genre perverts that intention by using stats to let the characters act well beyond any normal physics or biology. I'd be interested to read a novel wherein the author Actually rolls the dice on competency checks and abides the result for their MC.

Vis-a-vis INT: INT, short for intelligence, measures a character's ability to correctly perform tasks requiring critical or analytical thinking, e.g. math problems, spell casting, reciting poetry (memory recall), translating a foreign text, or solving a puzzle. If a character fails their competency check, (d20 + INT modifier < DC) then they fail to solve the problem. Depending on the problem, a clever DM may make a second, hidden check, to see if the character realizes their mistake.
In a D20 game, each skill and spell offered (whether canon or DM supplied) has a governing ability score. A DM may, at their discretion, offer synergy bonuses for situations or skills requiring multiple abilities. For instance, climbing: STR is the governing stat for climbing, but a particularly hard move may also require a DEX check and even get a bonus from INT for the clever climber who can find a way to do the move better.

And that brings up another issue: modifiers. Usually, skills are rolled as the best 3 out of 4d6 (DnD 3.5). A score of 10 or 11 is considered average for a typical mid-size humanoid, and gets a modifier of 0. 12-13, +1; 14-15, +2; 16-17, +3... and so on. Scores below 10 generate negative modifiers in the same intervals.
Next, you think about DC. DC measures how hard an action is to perform. A task with DC of 10 is something the average person can do and would only ever be rolled against if the consequence of failure were catastrophic. A DC of 15 is something the average person can do If they have all the time in the world and the consequence of failure is negligible.

The only place a stat's hard number (and not its modifier) comes into play is for the spellcaster. If you're playing by DnD 3.5 rules, then a spellcaster must have her relevant stat = 10 + spell level to cast a spell. So, almost anybody who's not an idiot can cast a cantrip (level 0 spell), but only a savant or a genius (or very old and dedicated wizard) will cast a reality breaker (9th level). The dificulty of resisting a spell is (again, 3.5 rules) 10 + spell level + caster's modifier (wizards use INT; bards and sorcs use CHA {although sorcs are a cheat. I might, as DM, let them use [INT+CHA]/2}; priests, pallies, and druids use WIS).

So that's ability scores in a nutshell. As Author, you are the DM, so you get to choose the rules and the particulars.
I advise you to be consistent and I dare you to roll the dice.

Best of Luck,
Trinity's Gadget

 

[Cipiteca396]

So... Stats and RPGs. Guessing from the responses, there aren't any many table-top, d20 gamers in this crowd.
In DnD and similar games systems, stats are used to estimate a person's innate, untrained ability to perform a task relevant to the stat in question. The original intent of these stats is to contrain the actions of the characters to some realm of reason defined by the dungeon master (or game master, if you prefer). In many ways, the whole LitRPG genre perverts that intention by using stats to let the characters act well beyond any normal physics or biology. I'd be interested to read a novel wherein the author Actually rolls the dice on competency checks and abides the result for their MC.

Vis-a-vis INT: INT, short for intelligence, measures a character's ability to correctly perform tasks requiring critical or analytical thinking, e.g. math problems, spell casting, reciting poetry (memory recall), translating a foreign text, or solving a puzzle. If a character fails their competency check, (d20 + INT modifier < DC) then they fail to solve the problem. Depending on the problem, a clever DM may make a second, hidden check, to see if the character realizes their mistake.
In a D20 game, each skill and spell offered (whether canon or DM supplied) has a governing ability score. A DM may, at their discretion, offer synergy bonuses for situations or skills requiring multiple abilities. For instance, climbing: STR is the governing stat for climbing, but a particularly hard move may also require a DEX check and even get a bonus from INT for the clever climber who can find a way to do the move better.

And that brings up another issue: modifiers. Usually, skills are rolled as the best 3 out of 4d6 (DnD 3.5). A score of 10 or 11 is considered average for a typical mid-size humanoid, and gets a modifier of 0. 12-13, +1; 14-15, +2; 16-17, +3... and so on. Scores below 10 generate negative modifiers in the same intervals.
Next, you think about DC. DC measures how hard an action is to perform. A task with DC of 10 is something the average person can do and would only ever be rolled against if the consequence of failure were catastrophic. A DC of 15 is something the average person can do If they have all the time in the world and the consequence of failure is negligible.

The only place a stat's hard number (and not its modifier) comes into play is for the spellcaster. If you're playing by DnD 3.5 rules, then a spellcaster must have her relevant stat = 10 + spell level to cast a spell. So, almost anybody who's not an idiot can cast a cantrip (level 0 spell), but only a savant or a genius (or very old and dedicated wizard) will cast a reality breaker (9th level). The dificulty of resisting a spell is (again, 3.5 rules) 10 + spell level + caster's modifier (wizards use INT; bards and sorcs use CHA {although sorcs are a cheat. I might, as DM, let them use [INT+CHA]/2}; priests, pallies, and druids use WIS).

So that's ability scores in a nutshell. As Author, you are the DM, so you get to choose the rules and the particulars.
I advise you to be consistent and I dare you to roll the dice.

Best of Luck,
Trinity's Gadget

That's a great summary of how the INT stat works in 3.5 DnD. The problem is, despite taking heavy inspiration from DnD and similar games, LitRPG is very different. The core of LitRPG is about a world of characters who can 'grow' their stats. Those constraints will eventually become meaningless.

In a DnD campaign, it's fine if your wizard ends up with 30 INT(triple the score of the average human) because it's just four to seven people playing around(and doing the majority of the work for the DM). Nobody in the party will care if your 'smart' wizard only has the same intelligence as his player. But authors have to worry about things like internal consistency, plot, characterization of all their NPCs, Main and side characters, etc. And then they have dozens to thousands of readers running over their work with a fine-toothed comb. Somebody is going to call you out on why the smart wizard didn't do such and such instead of flinging a magic missile at a drow archer.

I've tried the rolling dice thing. It's kinda fun, but also kind of boring. There's nobody playing with you. The results may interfere with your plot, and without someone else to convince you how cool it would be if you did the thing, that's just annoying. It does work if you don't have a plot in mind to begin with, though.

 

[GreenHexagon]

Well, thanks for all the responses, I already have a system that works, at least for me. But its nice to see how everybody else does their INT stat. Imo its probably the only stat with more than one definition so its nice to know how the people if the forum define theirs.

 

[AryaX]

Computer analogue... INT is the size of your hard drive and WIS is the overall speed of your computer...

 

[Cipiteca396]

Computer analogue... INT is the size of your hard drive and WIS is the overall speed of your computer...

Wouldn't it be better to compare INT to the CPU and WIS to... Hm. GPU works for perception, but... Computers don't really have any wisdom. They just brute force everything with threaded processing.

 

[AryaX]

Wouldn't it be better to compare INT to the CPU and WIS to... Hm. GPU works for perception, but... Computers don't really have any wisdom. They just brute force everything with threaded processing.

No... ?

As I see it at least, INTelligence is the maximum total theoretical intelligence... All the "brain stuff" you theoretically "could" do, IF you had all the time in the world to work it all out... while WISdom is the practical intelligence... All the "brain stuff" you actually Can do, in the time you really do have, which is always limited...

You can never wisdom your way through a problem, if you don't have the raw intelligence to solve it...

 

[Cipiteca396]

No... ?

As I see it at least, INTelligence is the maximum total theoretical intelligence... All the "brain stuff" you theoretically "could" do, IF you had all the time in the world to work it all out... while WISdom is the practical intelligence... All the "brain stuff" you actually Can do, in the time you really do have, which is always limited...

You can never wisdom your way through a problem, if you don't have the raw intelligence to solve it...

Exactly. The CPU does all the 'intelligence' related stuff a computer does. Math, processing data, and program operation. In your definition of Wisdom, the RAM would be the best comparison, though. I wouldn't accept that definition of Wisdom, personally, but who cares, lol.

 

[AryaX]

Exactly. The CPU does all the 'intelligence' related stuff a computer does. Math, processing data, and program operation. In your definition of Wisdom, the RAM would be the best comparison, though. I wouldn't accept that definition of Wisdom, personally, but who cares, lol.

While the CPU (and nowadays GPU), may do all the "work", all the actual intelligence that goes into that work, is in the program and the data the program uses, which are in the "hard drive". CPU, GPU, RAM, etc... are just part of the speed factor... or WIS in other words... The size of the storage space, whether it be a hard drive or whatever, determines how much "know how" = programs, and other information = data, you can actually have... which is INT...

 

[Cipiteca396]

While the CPU (and nowadays GPU), may do all the "work", all the actual intelligence that goes into that work, is in the program and the data the program uses, which are in the "hard drive". CPU, GPU, RAM, etc... are just part of the speed factor... or WIS in other words... The size of the storage space, whether it be a hard drive or whatever, determines how much "know how" = programs, and other information = data, you can actually have... which is INT...

All the hard drive does is store data.

If we bring that back to a human rather than a computer, that would be like saying intelligence measures the number of memories your brain can retain, and wisdom = calculation, abstract thinking, memorization, memory extraction, and Temporary memory(RAM).

So you'd call someone super intelligent if they could remember the contents of an encyclopedia, even if it took them a year each to read it, memorize it, and explain it. And of course, even if they weren't able to do anything with that information. To them, it's just words, not information. So if you asked them about a specific paragraph from the book, they wouldn't actually know what the paragraph meant, just what it said.

That just doesn't match up with the definition of intelligence. "the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills" In order to 'be intelligent' a person would need to be able to use everything a computer has to offer, though maybe not to such an excessive degree.

But the typical definition of wisdom is based on ethics, patterns, intuition and 'guessing' future events. "the quality of having experience, knowledge, and good judgment; the quality of being wise." This is just something a computer can't do. They never guess. They just use their absurd processing speed, their INT, to brute force everything.

 

[AryaX]

All the hard drive does is store data.

Indeed... All the hard drive does is store data... But that data includes not just the "variables", but also all the programming that tell the computer what to do...

So you'd call someone super intelligent if...

Nope.. That more your misinterpretation...

 

[Cipiteca396]

Indeed... All the hard drive does is store data... But that data includes not just the "variables", but also all the programming that tell the computer what to do...


Nope.. That more your misinterpretation...

It seemed like a fairly straight-forward extension of what you said.

So what's wrong with it? How do you define an Intelligent person? And how do you define a Wise person.

 

[Ddraig]

Usually INT ends up being effectively the "magic power" in rpgs. Like the magical equivalent of PHYS. So while it stands for Intellect or something, it often ends up being "MAG(magic power) + minor amounts of M.Res" and honestly is better of that way unless you can write (and show) some frankly super intelligent peeps.

On the same note,

WIS ends up being "Max MP + major amounts of M.Res"
VIT ends up being "Max HP + major amounts of P.Res"
PHYS ends up being "STR(physical power) + minor amounts of P.Res"
LCK ends up being useless in rpgs but in litrpgs it can be made useful as "Rare% modifier + Crit Chance"
AGI ends up "Move Speed" but can often be made overpowered by adding stuff like "Cast Speed", "Evade%" and "Hit%" to its definition

 

[AryaX]

So what's wrong with it? How do you define an Intelligent person? And how do you define a Wise person.

Its about speed... As I've said from the beginning... or at least tried to... not sure if I am getting my point across...

As I see it, an intelligent person is a thinker and a "knower"... Someone who have lots and lots of stuff crammed up in their head, and who can "ultimately" connect the dots... someone who can solve lots and lots of problems... or very difficult problems... given enough time...

Being wise on the other hand, I see more as... being able to bring out at least "some" relevant stuff in your head in a... "timely fashion"

--

I am not sure how such things are in rpg games or lithrpg novels... But if I used INT and WIS for either... I would use INT value to determine the number of skills, spells, etc... you can learn... and WIS for some time related thing... how many spells, skills, etc, you can use in certain amount of time, or how long time it takes to initiate such action, or something like that...