What are your thoughts on using IRL historical figures in fiction?

[SurfAngel_1031]

So, in my current work, I'm introducing a new character. Thing is, I want her to be someone well known from the IRL world's history. She's a sailor that kinda bounces around different crews and sniping the best to her own. She works as a pirate, privateer, trader, merchant, etc. Whatever's paying best at the moment, she'll do.

My issue is, I have two historical figures I'd want her to be, but can't decide between them. Either Ching Shih, chinese pirate queen and wife of Zheng Yi (This is a bit niche and would likely only be recognized by pirate buffs). Or Edward Teach, A.k.a Blackbeard (The transfer process allows one to remake themselves into whatever form they desire, so him becoming a her wouldn't really matter).

The issue here is I'm not sure which to go with and I'm not sure of the legalities around using historical figures in fantasy-fiction. It's centuries ago, so no defamation, but still. Descendants and all that.

note: I do get that writing historical fiction requires this, which is why I specified fantasy-fiction.

I used Joan of Arc in Vivienne. If you want to use them, go right ahead. People use them all the time. Look at Outlander. Look at all the period pieces on Netflix. They've even covered Queen Elizabeth. You're pretty safe. In fact it's kinda cool you're using pirates. In a very strange way, you're taking from them...kinda piracy in itself :)

 

[John_Owl]

I used Joan of Arc in Vivienne. If you want to use them, go right ahead. People use them all the time. Look at Outlander. Look at all the period pieces on Netflix. They've even covered Queen Elizabeth. You're pretty safe. In fact it's kinda cool you're using pirates. I'm a very strange way, you're taking from them...kinda piracy in itself :)

lol well, I'm planning on having my main character learn sailing from Blackbeard (transmigrated, now a chinese-esque woman named Mao). Then he'll be the captain while his harem will be the crew. They'll take part in piracy, privateering, trading, mercantile, etc. Basically whatever pays, they'll do, with just a handful of exceptions. nothing too morally dirty. no slaves, no raiding towns, no scuttling ships, never taking more than half of the cargo of a given ship, and leaving enough supplies for the ship to make the nearest port. Things like that.

 

[Placeholder]

> Unless they are protected by trademark, they are a target.

No. Trademark is for like Pepsico's trademark on Pepsi. This is about image rights, aka rights of publicity. You can satirize, if you do it obviously, the deceased musician Michael Jackson. Likewise some living public person like William Shatner. But you can't use cgi of Michael Jackson or William Shatner to make their "holograms" act in a standard movie for the next 65-odd years without involving MJ's estate.

It's a well-explained subject online for folk that want to do the reading. Some of it is tedious and some I find personally disagreeable.

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I'm personally vague on how far satire goes, if you want Jackson or Shatner as side characters or primary characters in porn parodies or biopics.

Separatly, the character "Kirk" is copyrighted, and the name of the character is trademarked.

Copyright and trademark being different legal structures.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark

> A trademark (also written trade mark or trade-mark) is a form of intellectual property that consists of a word, phrase, symbol, design, or a combination that identifies a product or service from a particular source and distinguishes it from others.[1][2][3] Trademarks can also extend to non-traditional marks like drawings, symbols, 3D shapes like product designs or packaging, sounds, scents, or specific colours used to create a unique identity.[4][5] For example, Pepsi® is a registered trademark associated with soft drinks, and the distinctive shape of the Coca-Cola® bottle is a registered trademark protecting Coca-Cola's packaging design.[6][4]

> The primary function of a trademark is to identify the source of goods or services and prevent consumers from confusing them with those from other sources

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Separately, one can't defame the dead.

Defaming the dead: could relatives get the right to sue?

David Banks: Publishers will be concerned at a European ruling that raises the possibility of relatives of the dead suppressing adverse coverage

www.theguardian.com

Can Dead People Be Defamed or Libeled? – Minc Law

In this article, find out if a dead person can be defamed, why that is, and potential related actions to resolve your defamation issue.

www.minclaw.com

 

[SurfAngel_1031]

lol well, I'm planning on having my main character learn sailing from Blackbeard (transmigrated, now a chinese-esque woman named Mao). Then he'll be the captain while his harem will be the crew. They'll take part in piracy, privateering, trading, mercantile, etc. Basically whatever pays, they'll do, with just a handful of exceptions. nothing too morally dirty. no slaves, no raiding towns, no scuttling ships, never taking more than half of the cargo of a given ship, and leaving enough supplies for the ship to make the nearest port. Things like that.

My own pirate Ruby One-Eye is not the least bit moral. She's got her own twisted sense of honor, even among thieves.

I do like that you are changing the characters from history a bit. That means you're even more safe. It's going to be your character with a historical influence.

 

[John_Owl]

> Unless they are protected by trademark, they are a target.

No. Trademark is for like Pepsico's trademark on Pepsi. This is about image rights, aka rights of publicity. You can satirize, if you do it obviously, the deceased musician Michael Jackson. Likewise some living public person like William Shatner. But you can't use cgi of Michael Jackson or William Shatner to make their "holograms" act in a standard movie for the next 65-odd years without involving MJ's estate.

It's a well-explained subject online for folk that want to do the reading. Some of it is tedious and some I find personally disagreeable.

I think he meant in some circumstances. Such as the Captain Morgan pirate for Captain Morgan Whiskey. He was a real pirate, yes, but that specific depiction could be a matter of trademark to the whiskey company. Or it could just fall under copyright. I haven't looked into it as I find the whiskey rather nasty.

My own pirate Ruby One-Eye is not the least bit moral. She's got her own twisted sense of honor, even among thieves.

I do like that you are changing the characters from history a bit. That means you're even more safe. It's going to be your character with a historical influence.

I'm just kinda changing his history a bit. IRL, he took a pardon, retired, then returned to piracy. I'm writing that he handed off the pirate name to someone else, and the real Teach remained retired and got transmigrated. So the "him" that was killed in battle wasn't the real him. Like the pirate from Princess Bride. It's a mantle anyone can step into.

 

[Feather]

Everything older than 100 years is public domain. (Except disney because america)
Everything in a history book is public domain. (Aside from stealing the writing itself as-is which is plagarism)
Historical fiction is fan fiction.

 

[beast_regards]

Everything older than 100 years is public domain. (Except disney because america)
Everything in a history book is public domain. (Aside from stealing the writing itself as-is which is plagarism)
Historical fiction is fan fiction.

Public domain is for fictional characters.

Like King Arthur, Cthulhu, Sherlock Holmes or Fu Manchu...

There is still a problem with those. While the original interpretation of those characters is indeed a public domain, their subsequent interpretation is copyrighted, and lawyers would love to ... well, rule-lawyer... how close you are to this or that idea.

The public figures, celebrities, historical figures, politicians and so on. That's the different matter.

It spells trouble.

Unlike the acting politicians and celebrities, there usually isn't any direct consequence of using historical figures...

...except until the real politicians step in and make it an issue of damaging the national legacy of whatever...

...or until you include a religious figure and suddenly there is a bomb attack...

 

[Jailbreak571]

Defamation will only become a problem if someone's getting offended

 

[Fairemont]

*opens a trunk filled with Japanese anime and Manga featuring figures fromnthe warring states.*

You'll be fine.

 

[beast_regards]

*opens a trunk filled with Japanese anime and Manga featuring figures fromnthe warring states.*

It's fine only when they do it. When Westerners do it, it is offensive.

 

[yeul_e]

I like it as long as they are not out of character.

 

[John_Owl]

I like it as long as they are not out of character.

You mean like, the same personality as they're reported to have had in history? Or reasonably explained changes to personality?

 

[butierHHF]

Lots of manga include historical figures. I'm fine with it.

 

[soupsabaw]

I think it's cool! Danmei writer Meng Xi Shi does it in her books. She did it a lot in Thousand Autumns. There are quite a few characters like so, however, she only did this with background characters. But there's nothing stopping you from doing it with main characters. Maybe it can make your story fall more underneath the line of historic fiction