What are your thoughts on using IRL historical figures in fiction?

[John_Owl]

So, in my current work, I'm introducing a new character. Thing is, I want her to be someone well known from the IRL world's history. She's a sailor that kinda bounces around different crews and sniping the best to her own. She works as a pirate, privateer, trader, merchant, etc. Whatever's paying best at the moment, she'll do.

My issue is, I have two historical figures I'd want her to be, but can't decide between them. Either Ching Shih, chinese pirate queen and wife of Zheng Yi (This is a bit niche and would likely only be recognized by pirate buffs). Or Edward Teach, A.k.a Blackbeard (The transfer process allows one to remake themselves into whatever form they desire, so him becoming a her wouldn't really matter).

The issue here is I'm not sure which to go with and I'm not sure of the legalities around using historical figures in fantasy-fiction. It's centuries ago, so no defamation, but still. Descendants and all that.

note: I do get that writing historical fiction requires this, which is why I specified fantasy-fiction.

 

[Naash]

You shouldn't have any problems with defamation or descendants.

I mean, on the same caliber... would be fan-fictions since characters already belong to authors. But fan-fictions still exist. There are countless of these out on the internet, and only nintendo would be dumb enough to try waging legal wars for these things...

Moreover, historical figures don't belong to anyone. They have entered this world's culture. No-one can claim them as theirs. It would be saying "this part of History is mine and mine only !" which is dumb.

You'll be fine. Enjoy writing your stories.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

If they fit the story, it's kind of cool when they (or even old public domain characters) show up in a story. As for defamation and liabilities, I would either not worry about it if this was just a hobby work, or if I planned to monetize it, I'd research to see if there are descendants or a foundation to contact for permission and possible approval of presentation.

 

[Representing_Tromba]

I do it all the time.

 

[Rezcore]

It's complicated. I reference Trump in my upcoming alt history geothriller, and because he's a public figure I can. However I couldn't write about someone like... Hasan, as he is litigious af, and even though he's a public figure, he's never been a public servant. Historical figures are also OK, but if it's a recent figure, change names.

 

[Deleted member 206441]

In my opinion, it's generally fine.

 

[beast_regards]

Never reference the real-world issues. It's not worth the trouble.

The historical figures with no political or religious significance may get a pass, as the very few people would care, or be invested, but even then it's not guaranteed considering the current day and time obsession with rewriting historical figures.

 

[John_Owl]

If they fit the story, it's kind of cool when they (or even old public domain characters) show up in a story. As for defamation and liabilities, I would either not worry about it if this was just a hobby work, or if I planned to monetize it, I'd research to see if there are descendants or a foundation to contact for permission and possible approval of presentation.

I honestly doubt many infamous pirates have modern foundations, though some "charities" could be considered as such, I suppose. Like those "I wanna be rich, so everyone donate $1 to me" charities.

It's complicated. I reference Trump in my upcoming alt history geothriller, and because he's a public figure I can. However I couldn't write about someone like... Hasan, as he is litigious af, and even though he's a public figure, he's never been a public servant. Historical figures are also OK, but if it's a recent figure, change names.

I plan to steer well clear of any direct references to modern figures, but I do plan to have a handful of nods. Like one individual that wanted to have a classic american mall, so he made a mall in a royal city.

They are cool, if they are being used well in a story. Btw, I read manga based on this, and some (almost all) characters have been TS. It's incredible, except for the MC being single Incel using a upgraded power version of steal from Konosuba.

But, the rest of the characters are incredible, better than the MC for some reason. And yes, h**ler is also there, and been TS.

If you want to read the manga, search for Petal of Reincarnation.

I'll check it out. I made mine a little underpowered, and the powers aren't really the main purpose. Unlike most of my writing, this one doesn't really focus on the action so much. Most of the trash fighting takes place off screen. like the MC can learn dragon skills by eating the part of the dragon's body the skill resides in, the primary love interest can learn partial shapeshifting forms by eating a compatible monster (she learned to turn her hands into claws by eating a dragon steak, for instance).

Never reference the real-world issues. It's not worth the trouble.

The historical figures with no political or religious significance may get a pass, as the very few people would care, or be invested, but even then it's not guaranteed considering the current day and time obsession with rewriting historical figures.

I make references to the issues of their days, but I stay away from modern figures (anyone within the last 100-150 years or so, I don't touch). Blackbeard is likely a safe option, since he was 1, hated and feared, and 2, a notable figure that nearly everyone has at least heard of. Ching Shih might be a little safer since she is niche knowledge so most wouldn't have even heard of her, but that kinda loses the appeal of using an IRL figure.

 

[beast_regards]

I make references to the issues of their days, but I stay away from modern figures (anyone within the last 100-150 years or so, I don't touch). Blackbeard is likely a safe option, since he was 1, hated and feared, and 2, a notable figure that nearly everyone has at least heard of. Ching Shih might be a little safer since she is niche knowledge so most wouldn't have even heard of her, but that kinda loses the appeal of using an IRL figure.

Both have been features in the popular culture already....

Same problem as Assassin Creed's use of historical figures, which nobody was batting an eye at back in the day, but become a ... let's say controversial thing.

Ching Shih may be known under six different names. I had to google her to realize I know who she was, just under the different name, which is something that gives you a leeway, but as you said, obscurity is the thing that works in your favour and you are relying on the fact no one else uses the google.

It's really up to you whether you want to go that route, but I am not sure if it is worth the trouble.

 

[Daydreamers]

I think the two you mentioned are more of a symbol than historical figures; so you should be fine

 

[Gray_Mann]

Ancient, Medieval, and Early Modern figures will receive little if any backlash whatsoever.

Anyone in the last 100-150 years? It's possible some descendant will launch a crusade against you, depending on your depiction of them, whether negative or otherwise.

 

[SirDogeTheFirst]

I don't think any of these figures have descendants that will attack you. Also, if you are so worried, just make a character very like them with a slightly different name.

Still, I doubt any historical pirate will cause you any trouble. I mean look at Fate franchise. If they can make king Arthur a waifu, and Astolfo a femboy and get away with it, what is stopping you from making a female Blackbeard?

Don't stop with Blackbeard or Zheng Yi. Go after Mediterranean corsairs like Barbarossa, and Francis Drake too. This is fiction, and backlash can be fixed with a simple name retcon, as long as you don't go after people with living relatives/foundations and write weird ass things.

 

[John_Owl]

I don't think any of these figures have descendants that will attack you. Also, if you are so worried, just make a character very like them with a slightly different name.

Still, I doubt any historical pirate will cause you any trouble. I mean look at Fate franchise. If they can make king Arthur a waifu, and Astolfo a femboy and get away with it, what is stopping you from making a female Blackbeard?

Don't stop with Blackbeard or Zheng Yi. Go after Mediterranean corsairs like Barbarossa, and Francis Drake too. This is fiction, and backlash can be fixed with a simple name retcon, as long as you don't go after people with living relatives/foundations and write weird ass things.

lol well, I write plot-focused, uncensored sex. And while Teach doesn't have descendants as far as I know, he does have a fandom. Similar to how a lot of modern-day serial killers have fandoms. Still, I'm not overly worried. I wasn't intending to ask permission so much as others' thoughts on it. If they're for or against using IRL historical people, etc.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

I love it!

 

[Spacerunner357]

A really good idea like Bob Ross, in my story Plantalearer Welcome to Tarareia!!!:D It has going to have spoliers Bob Ross in it
It also has Misses Gura
As a easter egg:) because they are all in another world.

 

[Placeholder]

> The issue here is I'm not sure which to go with and I'm not sure of the legalities around using historical figures in fantasy-fiction.

There's a few hundred legal jurisdictions involved, but if they've been dead for 70+ years, they (their estate's heirs actially) don't have legal standing to sue on Right to Publicity grounds, noting legal terminology and law is intensely localized. (See also yadda yadda about emotional distress? Dunno, I'm not a lawyer.)

Blackbeard has been dead for more than 70 years. Ching Shih more so, I suspect.

Meaning you are fine.

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Separate from this is your right to make obvious satire of living public figures. You can't mock Xi or Putin in their countries, you can (currently) mock Trump in the US. You can't use Trump’s photo to sell steaks, since that's not satire.

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Personality Rights…From Beyond the Grave! - All About Estates

Who owns the rights to a celebrity's image after death? Do these rights pass automatically to the celebrity's estate? How are these rights protected?

www.allaboutestates.ca

> In 1985, in response to the exemptions to the above rule, California strengthened its protection of publicity rights even more by passing the Celebrities Rights Act. This act enabled the post-mortem rights of any person to be extended to 70 years after death, and more importantly, gave standing to bring an action under (the more celebrity-favourable) Californian law regardless of where the litigants live, as long as some violation of this statute occurred in California.

> In Canada, the jurisprudence relating to this newly emerging area is still in a state of infancy. Unlike California, Canada does not have legislation that directly addresses the right to publicity. Instead, Canadian litigants might seek recourse under a patchwork of different statutes and common law torts. If the specific situation involves an infringement of a trademark, portrait or signature within thirty years of the death, litigants might utilize Canada’s federal Trademarks Act.

> Similarly, Canada’s federal Copyright Act provides little protection to the estate of deceased actors who are resurrected with digital means. The reason: copyrights protect the work of an actor, whereas personality rights protect their persona. In this case, movies such as Star Wars are works of the studio, not the deceased actor.

> There are three weaknesses with the current Canadian legal framework: first, provincial laws deal only with the “right to privacy,” as opposed to publicity. This means that most provincial statutes are only useful to litigants seeking to place an all-out ban on the use of the images of deceased celebrities. Second, the scope of statutory protection varies from province to province. Last, these rights expire upon death.

> Quebec law offers the strongest statutory protection in Canada. The Quebec Civil Code declares that personality rights are inalienable and are transmissible upon death. This allows heirs to claim compensation on behalf of the deceased for actions that took place after the death.


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Personality rights - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[BigBadBoi]

They are cool, if they are being used well in a story. Btw, I read manga based on this, and some (almost all) characters have been TS. It's incredible, except for the MC being single Incel using a upgraded power version of steal from Konosuba.

But, the rest of the characters are incredible, better than the MC for some reason. And yes, h**ler is also there, and been TS.

If you want to read the manga, search for Petal of Reincarnation.

Petal of Reincarnation is peak.

 

[Rhaps]

If you feel unsafe and uncertain, just add a disclaimer in the synopsis as a warning, like this:
This is a work of fiction. Any names or characters, businesses or places, events or incidents, are fictitious. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.

 

[Placeholder]

If you feel unsafe and uncertain, just add a disclaimer in the synopsis as a warning, like this:
This is a work of fiction. Any names or characters, businesses or places, events or incidents, are fictitious. Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, or actual events is purely coincidental.

Unfortunately OP, like many historical non/fiction writers, is using non-fictitious characters, with non-coincidental resemblance to actual persons.

Secondly, it's best to bury potential out-of-story drama or timewasters, because it may discourage potential readers.

 

[DireBadger]

Are they dead?
Unless they are protected by trademark, they are a target.
Whining readers? Well, you are going to get those no matter what you do. Just avoid literal trademark or copyright infringement.

Remember, there is no such thing as bad press for an artist's work... not when people will pay for your work just to see what all the fuss is about.