What’s the difference between web novel and conventional novel?

[BlackKnightX]

You have a problem with prose dedicated to tangential elements of a narrative. That isn't a "show, don't tell" problem, that's just a problem with poorly-paced writing. Both examples you use are poor writing, because they don't show OR tell the reader anything related to your narrative. It's a description of an ordinary thing, and people do not read fiction in order to see ordinary things. It's the opposite, in fact.

I would disagree on that. Of course getting right to the good part is the best thing to do, but I think an everyday life moment still has its place—especially in slice of life genre.

I use these examples to show the difference between showing and telling—as goes by similar examples I’ve seen in a lot of creative writing advice.

For example: “Don't tell me the moon is shining; show me the glint of light on broken glass.”

But, why can’t you just say, “It was a quiet night. The moon shone bright in the starry sky”?

Don’t know about you, but I think the second one sounds a lot better. It gets right to the point also manage to paint an image in the reader‘s mind.

I think your understanding of ”show, don’t tell” is more like dramatizing event, let it play out, or something similar. And I’m all about that. That’s just what a good story supposed to be like.

But, the term “show, don’t tell” by creative writing‘s definition seems to indicate that the writers should show everything—as indicated by the word DON’T—and should write in a redundant and pretentious way without getting right to the point.

It has some uses, of course, but to say you need to do it like that all the time is simply wrong. It’s just gonna spell disaster.

Since I somewhat tried write on both style now (wn style-ish on my fanfic and conventional-ish on my own series), I will say I prefer either style based on what the main genre of the series to begin with.

Like, if I was reading isekai fantasy full pack of action, I will sure prefered WN format. The same reason as you did, I also hate a scene filled with unnecessary detail. We want to know what happen quickly in those kind of novel, not get bored to dead because author somehow manage to fully detail how protagonist manage to hit enemy and what his enemy feels getting hit by protagonist. I would be get annoyed to death since it would take forever for the story to be completed, lol.

However, when it comes to sliceoflife non-fantasy setting, or story theme where the detail bound to be interesting if its fully detailed, I think conventional much better in this regard. In this kind of novel, we just want know what is character feeling and thought so we can fully relatable ourself with them. Superior example is oregairu novel, a lot people like that novel (I do too) because how fully detail it went, how the protagonist unique thought process manage to interest reader and how his change also manage to change people arround him in full detail. For me, it was incredible reading experience.

I actually like the details when it matters. Like you said, the inner-monologues in oregairu are fun to read because it matters to the story.

I don‘t say that details are bad, no, quite the opposite, it‘s just gonna make the story richer. But getting into detail with every single damn things is boring.

it's about editor and publishing departments.

I mean, ultimately. publishing departments are trying to makes money, they're not running a charity or doing stuff by being an idealist.
so most (if not all of them) are directing the author to wrote it the way that would appeal to the mass.

have you ever read any works that start from webnovel then eventually got published as LN or even got anime adaptation?
i read some of them, and most of the time : they're always change or add some stuff that would make it appeal to a bigger scope of audience.
and most of the time they're trying to "fix" the writing style so it would be more acceptable to the mass public.

publishing company, at the end of the day are trying to makes money. so ofc they would do things that they think would makes their books more appealing and makes people wanted to buy it from the bookstore for themselves.


webnovel doesn't have those, so most of the time webnovel author have the leisure to be idealist and just wrote the story in whichever fashion they like.

which is why sometimes, just sometimes. there's some webnovels i read that actually become worse when it actually published as a light novel.
i've read some of it and felt get horribly disappointed of course.

I get your point, but to tell you the truth, most light novels and English conventional novels still have a very different style just like I describe in the thread.

When I said conventional novel, I mean English novel written on paper and such.

 

[Discount_Blade]

Webnovel's are for people who have a lack of attention span and want the payoff and the big shiny lights and the explosions immediately.
Traditional novels are for people who don't need a constant shot of dopamine to pay attention and be entertained.

 

[vaurwyn]

But, the term “show, don’t tell” by creative writing‘s definition seems to indicate that the writers should show everything—as indicated by the word DON’T—and should write in a redundant and pretentious way without getting right to the point.

It has some uses, of course, but to say you need to do it like that all the time is simply wrong. It’s just gonna spell disaster.

Of course it is not advocating that you write in a redundant way. This rule has nothing to say about what you say, only the manner in which you say it.
You seem to think that "show" means "show everything", but that is false. It is advocating you say exactly the same thing, with the same amount of detail, but in a more effective way.

I will also insist on the fact that showing does not mean it takes more time, because you are supposed to integrate it in your story and multitask.
If I want to say my MC is short and also easily annoyed, I can Tell : "Jacob was tall, and also easily annoyed". You get the information, but that is all it is, information.
If I was Showing, I would add this line somewhere : "Jacob scowled, annoyed at having to look up at this moron." Same information, roughly the same time used to tell it, but much more impactful, and less noticeable. Instead of being taken out of the story to learn some information, you learn about it along the way by yourself. You also have the added information of how he views whoever he is facing.
You don't need to tell us the color of their socks, or the number of passerby glancing at them. That has nothing to do with "show don't tell". What is important is that whatever you decide is important enough to tell, you make the effort to show it instead.

 

[Southdog]

Text

Showing and Telling are both writing tools. "Show, don't tell" is amateur hour advice. It's a good adage but it becomes a millstone around the neck of an author if it's adhered too closely. I stick to a more developed rule. Very simply, "show the important stuff, tell everything else."

I think a lot of webmovel writers would benefit from setting hard limits on wordcount

 

[BlackKnightX]

I feel like most of you are profoundly misunderstanding the "show don't tell" rule.
It has nothing to do with the amount of detail you give. It is about how you give those details.

For example, if I want to show my readers the old lady next door is kind, I can add a line telling them "My neighbor is an old lady. I like her, she is very kind." The reader gets all of the information, but it has absolutely no emotional impact.
Showing would to add a scene where the readers actually sees the old lady being kind. For example :

[It must have looked pretty bad, because the old lady next door came to see me.
"Are you okay? I heard you screaming, is there anything I can do to help?"]

You see? I did not add any detail, I just integrated the information in the story. The reader should be thinking to himself "oh that lady is considerate, she actually went to see what was happening when she heard worrying noises from her neighbors", without me having written that explicitly. They form a much deeper attachment then in the first example, but it does not have to take more words to write.
Instead of halting the plot to blandly exposit some information, it is conveyed through subtext occurring at the same time as the plot, as a natural conclusion to the actions of the characters.

As for the amount of detail and descriptions, it has nothing to do with the this rule. I can take ages just telling you she is kind.
"The neighbor is very kind. She greets me each time I pass next to her house, and is always agreeable when I warn her I am gong to have a noisy party that will end late at night. She always wears a kind smile, with an impassive temperament, as if nothing in the world could worry her. Each time he saw her, he would feel like the no matter what happened, no matter what horrors the world threw at her, that smile would never waver, and her heart would always remain an untouched paradise."
This is an example of Telling you a lot of detail. I assure you I can write a whole chapter telling you she is kind, but it will always be less effective than a few well-placed scenes of her actually being king. At this point, it is only a difference in writing style.

It is true that by telling, you can go very fast. In my book, A lonely exploration of Tao, I could have told you my MC spent decades trapped alone in an abyss, and that he had suffered severe depression. That took one sentence, but did it cause any emotional reactions? Instead, I chose to show you how his mental state collapse because of his prolonged loneliness. that took me 20 chapters, but that does not mean all of the details were superfluous. It is those scenes where you see the characters actions, reactions and thought process that makes you care about them, not the paragraphs where you tell your audience that your MC is actually crippled with grief, despite acting in the exact same way as before.

Yes, of course I understand that. But honestly, the first example you gave still gives off the sense of web novel style. It just gets right to the point, and the prose is very simple and straightforward.

But here’s a thing. I don’t know how to explain it, so let me show you an example from one of the book I’ve read about webfiction:

Spoiler: Conventional Fiction Style

The bridge was just up ahead of them, and the thundering creature was behind them. Andy kept yelling for the kids to move, staying at the back of the group to help any stragglers in case they tripped or risked falling behind. Every loud crash behind them the angry beast made sent his heart racing and fear rippled through his body, but he forced himself to stay at a slow pace and not to bolt ahead. He was responsible for these people, and that sense of duty kept him fixed where he was.

If it caught up, at least he could slow it down enough for the others to cross the rope bridge over the chasm and escape. But, being a hero was a lot harder than it looked, and he resisted the urge to yell and scream for the group to move faster- panic being the last thing the group needed more of.

Finally, Tina, who was at the lead, reached the edge of the bridge and began ushering the kids onto it, telling them to hold the ropes and not run. It was a forty-meter drop, and the more the kids ran the shakier the bridge would become. The shaking bridge would make it harder for the rest to cross, slowing the group down, to say nothing of the chance of someone slipping and falling.

The bridge was old, having been built in the 1940s, and the weathered planks that spanned it looked about that old too. The ropes that held it together didn’t look much newer, and their thick sun-bleached cords had more than a few frayed strings sticking out at odd angles. If there was any choice, they wouldn’t have come this way, but the creature left them only one option, and as the kids trundled across Andy could only pray that their grandfather’s work was as solid as the men who built it.

As the last of the kids started across the bridge, Andy caught up with Tina. Filled with nervousness, he was just about to tell her to cross when they heard a scream. Looking over, they saw one of the kids, Louis, was hanging from the bottom of the bridge, held up by the hands of two of his campmates, Terry and Lin. Andy guessed a board had broken under the boy’s feet.

It was a delay they didn’t need, and then things got worse.

Behind them, the creature broke through the trees onto the path, a quarter ton of black hairy muscle charging at them like a freight train…

Spoiler: The Webfiction version

“Move it! Move it!” Andy screamed at the kids, urging them on.

He could see the bridge over the chasm just ahead. It made him feel like there was a chance.

Somewhere behind them, the creature smashed through the forest in pursuit. It made Andy’s heart race, but he hung back to catch any stragglers. He was the group leader, and no kid was going to get left behind on his watch.

In his head, he searched for ways to slow the creature down if it caught up. The kids needed time to cross, and he would have to give it to them somehow. Tina was at the front of the group, so she reached the end of the bridge first.

“Miss Tan, is it safe?” Leo asked from beside her, pointing out over the aging rope bridge’s thirty-meter span.

Tina glanced down at the straight forty meter drop next to her and forced a smile. “Sure it is, Leo. You just have to make sure you hold on to the ropes tight, okay? And don’t walk too fast. If you run, the others will run too, and the whole bridge will shake a lot and make it harder to cross.”

The boy nodded, and grabbed the guide ropes, starting across. As each board creaked under his feet, Tina winced, but all she could do was usher more children onto the decaying bridge and try not to think about what might happen if something broke.

Andy was beside Tina as the last of the kids stepped onto the bridge and their eyes met.

“You go,” Andy said. “I’ll wait until you’re…”

He was cut off by a scream

Spinning around, they saw one of the kids, Louis, was being held in the air by the hands of his campmates Terry and Lin. Louis had fallen through a broken board and was now dangling under the bridge while the other two tried desperately to pull him up.

It was a delay they didn’t need.

Then things got worse.

Behind them, the hairy creature exploded onto the path, charging at them like an angry black freight train…

See the difference? The conventional style seems to tell a story in a tense and dramatic way. There are a lot more details.

On the other hand, the web novel style are just a simple play of event using short paragraphs and simple and straightforward prose. The writer will just TELL the readers how the character feel directly without delving too much into the character’s psyche.

**These excerpts are from the book titled: How to Write Light Novels and Webnovels; Your Key to Writing Addictive Stories That Get Reads, Reviews and Sales

It’s an interesting read. Go check it out if you want.**

​

Of course it is not advocating that you write in a redundant way. This rule has nothing to say about what you say, only the manner in which you say it.
You seem to think that "show" means "show everything", but that is false. It is advocating you say exactly the same thing, with the same amount of detail, but in a more effective way.

I will also insist on the fact that showing does not mean it takes more time, because you are supposed to integrate it in your story and multitask.
If I want to say my MC is short and also easily annoyed, I can Tell : "Jacob was tall, and also easily annoyed". You get the information, but that is all it is, information.
If I was Showing, I would add this line somewhere : "Jacob scowled, annoyed at having to look up at this moron." Same information, roughly the same time used to tell it, but much more impactful, and less noticeable. Instead of being taken out of the story to learn some information, you learn about it along the way by yourself. You also have the added information of how he views whoever he is facing.
You don't need to tell us the color of their socks, or the number of passerby glancing at them. That has nothing to do with "show don't tell". What is important is that whatever you decide is important enough to tell, you make the effort to show it instead.

Yes, I understand that. That’s also how I write. Put it more simply, it’s just getting into scene instead of info-dumping.

But the word ”show and DON’T tell” itself leads a lot of amateur writers in the wrong way. That’s why I don’t like it.

Showing and Telling are both writing tools. "Show, don't tell" is amateur hour advice. It's a good adage but it becomes a millstone around the neck of an author if it's adhered too closely. I stick to a more developed rule. Very simply, "show the important stuff, tell everything else."

I think a lot of webmovel writers would benefit from setting hard limits on wordcount

Yes, that’s the perfect way to put it.

I used to suffered from the rule “show, don’t tell” back when I‘d just started writing for the first time—I didn’t show it to anyone, of course. It’s just a practice.

I found a lot of problems with this rule. It also gave me writer block and made my story a mess.

When I finally managed to get myself out of this, I invented a new rule for myself—“TELL, don’t show.”

I don’t mean it literally, of course. The rule just indicates that I should ignore the fucking rule and just focus on TELLING a story.

Get to the point. Use your writer’s intuition you’ve honed by all the reading you’ve been through and decide by yourself which part you should show, which part you should tell, which part should be more detailed, and which part should move fast.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

The difference is really just where the author gets published. Different editors will have different tastes, so you'll find variation between presses as far as pacing goes.

 

[SternenklarenRitter]

The difference is purely format. Conventional novels are physical things made out of paper, while webnovels exist in the internet. Even the quality isn't much different; there's a reason most used book stores only offer you a dime for romance paperbacks and a quarter for paperbacks of most other genera. Although conventional novels might be a little less explicit, having been filtered by the publisher's 'content decency' rules that are constantly changing but never adapted for a time more recent than 40 years ago (although in my country of residence that simply reduces the frequency of the word -fuck- by 99%, since 40 years ago was when hippies were young).

 

[Deleted member 1244]

golden rule “show, don’t tell.”

It's not a rule. I feel like I am a broken record.

It's a technique, a narrative technique. It's no more a rule than starting a novel using "In media res", "using past/present tense"

"Show, don't tell" have its roots are from playwrights a visual medium, and later adopted by screenwriters.

For example, in a movie, don't have to character sit face to face "SAYING" this is a diner they go to every day, instead, "SHOW" that they have a booth they always sit at, have the staff call the characters by name in familiarity.

Show don't tell, is useful in stories, but is such a small part of novels compared to screenwriting. And even tho it is such a big part of filmmaking owing to the fucking "economy of actions", it is still not "RULE" in screenwriting.

Novelists should not adopt movie-making methods and call them RULES

Screenwriting there are lots of these things all to with how efficient information gets conveyed like
Keep it simple stupid
Enter late, leave early
Make sure a single page represent 1 min of screen time


There are useful bits in all these adages that can be cross-disciplined.

BUT one should not think of them as rules, the problem is people thinking that there are rules. there are no rules.

new rule for myself—“TELL, don’t show.”

Stop making rules! If you make rules, it just restrains creativity.

Just write what works and use what methods suit the story at the time.

Showing and Telling are both writing tools

Exactly.


With that out of the way.

Most web novels—either they’re Japanese, Chinese, or Korean—seem to break this rule a lot.

But—I still prefer the web novel‘s writing style more.

the problem of this is that they are translated novels, and original novels that mimics them (? do you read Eng WN)

Because translated novels are filtered and processed and due to the problem of Low and high context cultures' linguistics. the idea of show don't tell can't be neatly understood nor translated.

From my pov, it is not Translated WN.LN often lacking in "SHOW don't Tell", it is often lost in translation due to it being embedded in the language itself, therefore often unnecessary.

"show, don't tell" cannot be used as an element that distinguished the difference between WN and Conventional Novels, because it is something the author often has no control over.

Instead, using the narrative structure of the "chapter by chapter" approach, and usage of cliffhangers is the more constructive starting point for learning the point of difference, between the two.

 

[Deleted member 22388]

I was about to make a new thread, its about 98% of the bookstore full of books is not my interest.
I know what their content going to be - long descriptive from my running simulation because my budget is low.
This thread covers the reason why. I simply prefer comedy text from a Chinese style, they hid their meaning well like

'Have Eyes but Fails to Recognize Mt. Tai', 'She is a Green Jade Beauty'​

And yes most of them in the bookstore are of Western book :P, no hate just again 'not my interest.'
I'm that imaginative and not descriptive guy.

I found a lot of problems with this rule. It also gave me writer block and made my story a mess.

When I finally managed to get myself out of this, I invented a new rule for myself—“TELL, don’t show.”

I don’t mean it literally, of course. The rule just indicates that I should ignore the fucking rule and just focus on TELLING a story.

Get to the point. Use your writer’s intuition you’ve honed by all the reading you’ve been through and decide by yourself which part you should show, which part you should tell, which part should be more detailed, and which part should move fast.

Thank you man and shi* now I have to revise my novel.

Stop making rules! If you make rules, it just restrains creativity.

Just write what works and use what methods suit the story at the time.

hmm... interesting.

 

[BearlyAlive]

The biggest difference between WN and "professional" style is the work put in after you finish writing.

Conventional novels live through editing cycles almost as long as the writing process itself while WN style is mostly "wrote a bunch, here are some extra chapters".

And then there's the difference in payment methods. I think most WN/LN authors are paid by word count, same as Visual Novel writers, while still needing to tell an engaging story, so they adapted a more condensed and interacting style of writing. Otherwise they'd sure as hell overprose even harder than some professionals.

And "show, don't tell" is more of a cautionary bedtime story than a rule. "Show the important stuff and tell everything else" would be better, imo.

 

[BlackKnightX]

It's not a rule. I feel like I am a broken record.

It's a technique, a narrative technique. It's no more a rule than starting a novel using "In media res", "using past/present tense"

"Show, don't tell" have its roots are from playwrights a visual medium, and later adopted by screenwriters.

For example, in a movie, don't have to character sit face to face "SAYING" this is a diner they go to every day, instead, "SHOW" that they have a booth they always sit at, have the staff call the characters by name in familiarity.

Show don't tell, is useful in stories, but is such a small part of novels compared to screenwriting. And even tho it is such a big part of filmmaking owing to the fucking "economy of actions", it is still not "RULE" in screenwriting.

Novelists should not adopt movie-making methods and call them RULES

Screenwriting there are lots of these things all to with how efficient information gets conveyed like
Keep it simple stupid
Enter late, leave early
Make sure a single page represent 1 min of screen time


There are useful bits in all these adages that can be cross-disciplined.

BUT one should not think of them as rules, the problem is people thinking that there are rules. there are no rules.

Yes, I‘m well aware of that. I just used the word like ”rule”or “golden rule” because a lot of creative writing advice on the internet or some how-to books seem to think that it is one.

It’s just an attempt at sarcasm.

I mistrust it. Not its purpose itself, but rather how misleading its name is. Saying “show, DON’T tell” will definitely get amateur writers to write in the wrong way.

And I’m not alone in this one, either. You can go search in the internet anywhere.

Stop making rules! If you make rules, it just restrains creativity.

Just write what works and use what methods suit the story at the time.

This is another sarcasm.

You seem to have read everything I said in my replies, so you must have come across this: “Of course, I don’t just tell all the time. There are some moments that I want to show more details. And I can feel it instinctively about which part I should show, and which part I should tell after following this rule I created myself.”

See what I mean? I said I invented a new rule for myself, saying, “tell, and DON’T show.” But then in that paragraph I already made it clear that I don’t follow this so-called “rule” I created. I don’t even think about it.

It’s just a mental trick, actually.

I admit, I used to suffer from the so-called rule “show, don’t tell” in the past. Yes, yes, I know it’s not a rule, but back then—a long time ago—I did think that it is because a lot of creative writing advices said so.

Like I said, I invented a new ”rule” for myself due to three reason:
1) It’s just a sarcasm, actually.
2) It’s a mental trick to tell myself that you should break the so-called “rule”.
3) It’s a mental trick for me to just focus on telling a story, add details or whatever when I feel like the story needs it, and just follow my intuition.

I DON’T follow it like it IS a rule. I just keep it in mind because it makes me forget about the ADVICE “show, don’t tell” and just keep on writing.

Just a mental trick for me, and it works, so why not?

And "show, don't tell" is more of a cautionary bedtime story than a rule. "Show the important stuff and tell everything else" would be better, imo.

Exactly! I know it‘s not a rule, but a lot of creative writing advices on the internet seem to want amateur writers to think that it is one. Believe me I used to fall into this trap myself.

The advice “show, don’t tell” means well, of course, and has its purpose. But it’s a bad advice because of how misleading it is.

Using the word DON’T and saying that it is a rule will surely lead amateur writers to convey informations in a strange and pretentious way.

Yes, it really happens. Go check on the internet or anywhere at all if you don’t believe me.

 

[Snusmumriken]

Let me try to tackle this as well, if you don't mind.

I feel like if one is to talk about the show and tell is better to start at what it is trying to achieve, rather than following it blindly. And it is trying to achieve immersion. It is about making the story feel like it is all around you, rather than a task you are trying to complete.

This alone already allows you to draw a preliminary line between what needs explanation and what does not. From an immersive standpoint saying that the "rose is red" isn't telling - you can imagine a red rose just fine in your mind. Do you want to use a different description? Sometimes and for a different reason, but if we are talking about flowers in particular by stating the colour you have already "shown" it to the audience.

Then there are complex ideas, specifically - emotions and motivations. This is the area where telling breaks the immersion somewhat. This famous clip is the perfect example of that:

Where the actor intentionally broke character and declared his feelings.

This is why for real immersion - you don't want to simply tell readers "The X character is afraid for the safety of their sister" Yes it tells readers about his emotions but it doesn't make them fleshed out character. Readers don't associate what you told them to the character and mostly perceive it as a statement. What you want to do is to make readers realise "hey, this character really cares about their sister. I hope nothing will happen to it."

Don't forget that in the real-world a lot of communication happens at the subconscious level - body language, subtle intonations, differences in tone. While you can simply tell someone "he looks angry but actually afraid" you aren't engaging the subconscious mind of a reader. Showing is used specifically for that it provides hints to our minds to piece together and suddenly exclaim "Hold on he isn't angry - he is afraid!" And then Bam! now you really feel like you are standing right there between these characters.

Rules might be a bit laxer if you are talking about first-person POV as you can "tell" personal emotions without breaking immersion more often. But that is when the nuances of perception help. "Red rose" is showing that the rose is freaking red. But the character seeing that rose and colouring it as "colour of freshly spilt blood" is now showing that the rose is freaking red, AND the character is in a broody mood. That is where that extra detail is handy, not to drown readers in extra detail but to provide additional insight to something else often enough.


Now about the main distinction between novels:

I believe the main distinguishing factor is that conventional novels are published in book form. instead of being published per chapter, you know you are getting the whole story (or at least that is your expectation with them)

As such Conventional novels have the advantage of allowing greater peaks in chapter intensity, While web novels need to have at least somewhat enticing chapters all the time lest they start shedding their reader base, conventional novels can afford to string up a few "slow" chapters back to back to accumulate tension and result in an explosive resolution.

In that regard, conventional stories can easily feel like a rollercoaster. while web novels usually need a separate driving force to achieve anything close.

 

[Comiak]

Can we all appreciate the fact that "Show, don't tell" breaks its own rule? I mean, it's used to say "The writing needs to invoke an image in the reader's mind" but "Show, don't tell" invokes the image that one simply needs to describe more because surprise, surprise, a medium that is told exclusively through "telling" cannot "show". Judging by how many people, myself included, misunderstood the meaning of that "rule" shows just how badly worded it is.

 

[skillet]

Your definition of writing style for 'conventional' novels seem to veer towards the literary than what would be called more... mainstream? I might be reading you wrong but

Just a reminder that beyond the literature that you either read in high school for class or hear praise for from all the greatest critics (e.g. Tolkien, as you have mentioned), there is a vast, vast world of 'conventionally' printed novels that really can't be put into one big genre just because they're all printed. (Despite what the publishing industry seems to want you to think, there are not-so-great novels out there that were somehow 'conventionally' published, too, so keeping that in mind as well haha)

I do agree that generally speaking, webnovels do seem to have a tendency to be quicker to read (that's what it was originally made for, after all) which may mean that they don't go as deep into descriptions as full-length, ready-made novels might, but even here I can't say that all or even most 'conventional' novels are more descriptive and deep. I've also had my fair share of really well-written (even when translated!) webnovels, as descriptive as descriptive can get. And while I have read Korean webnovels in its original language, I haven't had as much exposure to 'conventional' Korean novels, so I can't compare if the webnovels in the original language are actually shorter in description than what's printed.

So yeah, not too sure on the stylistic differences between the two. Lots to say about other mechanics that differ between the two, but not much on their styles.

tl;dr: I lack the necessary information, but from what I can gather, I can't generalize that one or the other is more descriptive by default, as "'conventional' novels" is just way too diverse a field to make more concrete conclusions about.

 

[BlackKnightX]

Can we all appreciate the fact that "Show, don't tell" breaks its own rule? I mean, it's used to say "The writing needs to invoke an image in the reader's mind" but "Show, don't tell" invokes the image that one simply needs to describe more because surprise, surprise, a medium that is told exclusively through "telling" cannot "show". Judging by how many people, myself included, misunderstood the meaning of that "rule" shows just how badly worded it is.

Exactly!

Your definition of writing style for 'conventional' novels seem to veer towards the literary than what would be called more... mainstream? I might be reading you wrong but

Just a reminder that beyond the literature that you either read in high school for class or hear praise for from all the greatest critics (e.g. Tolkien, as you have mentioned), there is a vast, vast world of 'conventionally' printed novels that really can't be put into one big genre just because they're all printed. (Despite what the publishing industry seems to want you to think, there are not-so-great novels out there that were somehow 'conventionally' published, too, so keeping that in mind as well haha)

I do agree that generally speaking, webnovels do seem to have a tendency to be quicker to read (that's what it was originally made for, after all) which may mean that they don't go as deep into descriptions as full-length, ready-made novels might, but even here I can't say that all or even most 'conventional' novels are more descriptive and deep. I've also had my fair share of really well-written (even when translated!) webnovels, as descriptive as descriptive can get. And while I have read Korean webnovels in its original language, I haven't had as much exposure to 'conventional' Korean novels, so I can't compare if the webnovels in the original language are actually shorter in description than what's printed.

So yeah, not too sure on the stylistic differences between the two. Lots to say about other mechanics that differ between the two, but not much on their styles.

tl;dr: I lack the necessary information, but from what I can gather, I can't generalize that one or the other is more descriptive by default, as "'conventional' novels" is just way too diverse a field to make more concrete conclusions about.

Yep, I know there’re different varieties of conventional novel. I wasn’t talking about literary at all.

I mean, you can’t really compare the two because literary fictions and web fictions have completely different purpose altogether. Web fictions and conventional fictions are pure entertainment, while literary fictions focuses more on the beauty of prose and human nature and all that. So I’m not comparing the two.

But what I said is true, though.

Most web novels and conventional novels in general seem to have different writing styles. The most noticeable difference is the details given.

Conventional novels tend to give more details to the readers, and usually take their time to slowly build things up. I do understand that they were made to be stand-alone mostly, so they have the privilege of taking their time; to give the readers the full experience.

You could even say it’s the difference between having a full meal and a snack. But the writing styles are still vastly different between the two.

Even James Patterson’s novels that rely heavily on action and dialogue and less descriptions still have more details than most web novels I’ve read.

 

[AliceShiki]

I'd say that webnovels aren't really that different from published novels, really... Like... The more marketable a given series is, the more you'll see of some patterns though... Like... Webnovels might use short chapters and a lot of cliffhangers and have some excitement in each chapter in order to keep the readerbase engaged... But it's not like this a rule or anything.

Similarly, a published novel might have longer chapters, less cliffhangers, and the excitement might take a while to build up... But it's not like there aren't published novels with shorter chapters, lots of cliffhangers and that have some exciting thing happening every single chapter... >.>

The format shapes the average story of both mediums to some extent I suppose, but it's not like it shapes them all.


As for the whole "Show don't tell" debate... Well, people already said a lot about it, so I won't go too much into it, but basically, the way I see it is... "Don't go a whole chapter explaining to the reader the whole damn plot in a giant exposition... Show it to the reader, you stupid."
^ This is the most important thingy you can take out of "Show don't tell" for writing IMO... And even then, there are exceptions where exposition might be needed.

The other useful thing I can think of in the "Show don't tell" expression, is like, "In first person narrative, your MC shouldn't be using their internal monologue to introduce characters that they should already know about. The new character's relationship with the MC should be shown by their interaction." which is basically like... Not having your MC look at a girl and think like, "Oh, it's [name], the boy I love." when you could instead just put a bit of dialogue with the two characters talking, names being mentioned during the conversation, and some small description of how the MC is blushing or whatever.

Like, sure, putting some dialogue there and adding some blushing is taking longer than putting an internal monologue explaining the MC's feelings, but like... It's not like it would take that long either.

Basically speaking, if your description of a scene is useful, I'd say you can and should use it instead of like... Telling the situation to the readers... If your description is there just to let the reader better imagine the scene, or to show off how beautiful a given location is... Then I think you should really cut it, unless this is like... A total part of your style or something.

Yes, of course I understand that. But honestly, the first example you gave still gives off the sense of web novel style. It just gets right to the point, and the prose is very simple and straightforward.

But here’s a thing. I don’t know how to explain it, so let me show you an example from one of the book I’ve read about webfiction:

Spoiler: Conventional Fiction Style

The bridge was just up ahead of them, and the thundering creature was behind them. Andy kept yelling for the kids to move, staying at the back of the group to help any stragglers in case they tripped or risked falling behind. Every loud crash behind them the angry beast made sent his heart racing and fear rippled through his body, but he forced himself to stay at a slow pace and not to bolt ahead. He was responsible for these people, and that sense of duty kept him fixed where he was.

If it caught up, at least he could slow it down enough for the others to cross the rope bridge over the chasm and escape. But, being a hero was a lot harder than it looked, and he resisted the urge to yell and scream for the group to move faster- panic being the last thing the group needed more of.

Finally, Tina, who was at the lead, reached the edge of the bridge and began ushering the kids onto it, telling them to hold the ropes and not run. It was a forty-meter drop, and the more the kids ran the shakier the bridge would become. The shaking bridge would make it harder for the rest to cross, slowing the group down, to say nothing of the chance of someone slipping and falling.

The bridge was old, having been built in the 1940s, and the weathered planks that spanned it looked about that old too. The ropes that held it together didn’t look much newer, and their thick sun-bleached cords had more than a few frayed strings sticking out at odd angles. If there was any choice, they wouldn’t have come this way, but the creature left them only one option, and as the kids trundled across Andy could only pray that their grandfather’s work was as solid as the men who built it.

As the last of the kids started across the bridge, Andy caught up with Tina. Filled with nervousness, he was just about to tell her to cross when they heard a scream. Looking over, they saw one of the kids, Louis, was hanging from the bottom of the bridge, held up by the hands of two of his campmates, Terry and Lin. Andy guessed a board had broken under the boy’s feet.

It was a delay they didn’t need, and then things got worse.

Behind them, the creature broke through the trees onto the path, a quarter ton of black hairy muscle charging at them like a freight train…

Spoiler: The Webfiction version

“Move it! Move it!” Andy screamed at the kids, urging them on.

He could see the bridge over the chasm just ahead. It made him feel like there was a chance.

Somewhere behind them, the creature smashed through the forest in pursuit. It made Andy’s heart race, but he hung back to catch any stragglers. He was the group leader, and no kid was going to get left behind on his watch.

In his head, he searched for ways to slow the creature down if it caught up. The kids needed time to cross, and he would have to give it to them somehow. Tina was at the front of the group, so she reached the end of the bridge first.

“Miss Tan, is it safe?” Leo asked from beside her, pointing out over the aging rope bridge’s thirty-meter span.

Tina glanced down at the straight forty meter drop next to her and forced a smile. “Sure it is, Leo. You just have to make sure you hold on to the ropes tight, okay? And don’t walk too fast. If you run, the others will run too, and the whole bridge will shake a lot and make it harder to cross.”

The boy nodded, and grabbed the guide ropes, starting across. As each board creaked under his feet, Tina winced, but all she could do was usher more children onto the decaying bridge and try not to think about what might happen if something broke.

Andy was beside Tina as the last of the kids stepped onto the bridge and their eyes met.

“You go,” Andy said. “I’ll wait until you’re…”

He was cut off by a scream

Spinning around, they saw one of the kids, Louis, was being held in the air by the hands of his campmates Terry and Lin. Louis had fallen through a broken board and was now dangling under the bridge while the other two tried desperately to pull him up.

It was a delay they didn’t need.

Then things got worse.

Behind them, the hairy creature exploded onto the path, charging at them like an angry black freight train…

See the difference? The conventional style seems to tell a story in a tense and dramatic way. There are a lot more details.

On the other hand, the web novel style are just a simple play of event using short paragraphs and simple and straightforward prose. The writer will just TELL the readers how the character feel directly without delving too much into the character’s psyche.

**These excerpts are from the book titled: How to Write Light Novels and Webnovels; Your Key to Writing Addictive Stories That Get Reads, Reviews and Sales

It’s an interesting read. Go check it out if you want.**

Like... Looking at those examples... I simply like both?

The bridge was old, having been built in the 1940s, and the weathered planks that spanned it looked about that old too. The ropes that held it together didn’t look much newer, and their thick sun-bleached cords had more than a few frayed strings sticking out at odd angles. If there was any choice, they wouldn’t have come this way, but the creature left them only one option, and as the kids trundled across Andy could only pray that their grandfather’s work was as solid as the men who built it.

This paragraph in particular seems mostly useless, so I'd probably scrap it entirely, or at least cut most of it. There isn't a need to talk about the year the bridge was built, or to overly describe how wobbly it is... And I'm fairly sure the earlier paragraphs had already shown the sense of urgency, so there wasn't really any need to talk about how this was the only option available. They had to cross it and that was that.

But for basically everything else that was in the examples... Both ways of writing the scene seemed to be absolutely fine? It really seemed more like an author-style kind of thing than anything else.

 

[Agentt]

I have my take on it, but I still wanna hear your opinion. For me, the most obvious difference seems to be the rule—“show, don’t tell.”

Most web novels—either they’re Japanese, Chinese, or Korean—seem to break this rule a lot.

Conventional novels—if not talking about the quality of prose, story, and plot—seem to have far more concern about the cinematic style, which again comes from the golden rule “show, don’t tell.”

The writer will narrate story as if they are a camera. They will give readers more details in every single moment. This, of course, make the story richer.

But—I still prefer the web novel‘s writing style more.

Mostly because it moves faster and tends to leave the details to the reader’s imagination. Some stories are still rich in details even if they’re written in this style—ignoring the rule ”show, don’t tell”.

And because the conventional novels add too much details, the story move at a snail pace. I find it really irritating to read through all those tiniest details, like who cares about this! Just get to the fucking point and move on already!

I can’t really finish it unless I force myself to wade through all this mass of boredom.

So, that’s my opinion. What about you? What do you think is the difference between the two? And how you feel about it?

This is just because you only read conventional novels which are already famous. Try reading a normal one, or read early sherlock holmes, or early lovecraft

 

[BlackKnightX]

It really seemed more like an author-style kind of thing than anything else.

Well, that’s kind of what we’re talking about here, though. Lol

Not saying either one is bad. That’s just plain stupid. I was just trying to show the difference between the two style.

Not all web novels and conventional novels have these very exact styles, of course. But generally they seems to differ in this way.

Honestly, this thread is just for fun, so don’t be too serious about it. I just want you guys to share you opinions, that’s all.

This is just because you only read conventional novels which are already famous. Try reading a normal one, or read early sherlock holmes, or early lovecraft

Those are pretty old stuffs. And Sherlock Holmes is somewhat of a pulp fiction, I think? The writing style’s kind of similar to light novel.

 

[SirDogeTheFirst]

In my experience, web novels have that episodic series feeling while conventional ones are more like a movie. Both have a plot, but the story flow feels smoother in most conventional novels than web ones.

 

[RavenWolf]

Fair. What about the writing style, though?

Writing style can be anything. Webnovels don't need that you have to write like something from anime. Webnovels just are popular with anime folks so there are more like that style here.