Villain as MC, Let's Discuss

[JayDirex]

So a few minutes was in gen-chat discussing the villain as MC and what kind of story they make. And I wrote this:

The villain story is one of motivation. The reader will side with an MC villain who has a clear cut motivation and shows a ruthlessness about it. However you still want your villain to be suave and debonair. Either male or female. And the character should have an arc. In that arc, people become close to them. But at first the villain uses them but then the villain grows fond of the new people. And then they use their villainy to get their aims and still help their friends at the end.

Debate with me fellow Authors. Was my statement correct? What makes a villain MC story?

 

[Echimera]

Sounds a lot like a redemption arc to me, or at least the rough direction sounds similar.
It's a valid choice to write a villain-protagonist, but not the only one.
It's equally valid to write an unsympathetic villain-protagonist, or even a total monster.

 

[Moonlight-sama]

The concept itself is good but writing this kind of story with a sympathetic villain mc will spell trouble. Why you ask that is because depending on how the story will progress there will be a loophole in the story so I would suggest making the mc a ruthless from the start but the supporting characters will be there so that the mc won't cross the line becoming a total monster. In a sense the supporting characters will be the leverage of the mc, this is only my opinion depending on how you take it is your decision

 

[Ilikewaterkusa]

So a few minutes was in gen-chat discussing the villain as MC and what kind of story they make. And I wrote this:

The villain story is one of motivation. The reader will side with an MC villain who has a clear cut motivation and shows a ruthlessness about it. However you still want your villain to be suave and debonair. Either male or female. And the character should have an arc. In that arc, people become close to them. But at first the villain uses them but then the villain grows fond of the new people. And then they use their villainy to get their aims and still help their friends at the end.

Debate with me fellow Authors. Was my statement correct? What makes a villain MC story?

Villains are really fûcking based. Conceptualized the friend enemy distinction, cold, stoic mind, no pussying around for pussy. No shitty ideals

 

[NoraNali]

Personally I think a Villain MC'S the way you describe them is a fine way of making a villain MC, and that there are many a story that can be written around such a core concept, but I think it is not the only way.

You could write like I do and write a villain MC completly unhinged, a person fitting of the description "Monster with human skin". A pure evil MC.
They are basically the complete opposite from what you described, there is no higher goal or motivation to their actions, they do it because it's funny to them or they are bored. Their relationships with other characters are either the other is a servant, a victim or someone who opposes them and their character always stays the same, they don't grow, they are static.

Now this alone would obviously be a terrible story, but these kinds of MC's can still work if you follow two rules.

1. Since their character is literally unable to change through growth, the only way to make readers invested in them is through their personallity, make them extremly charasmatic,funny, over the top or simply flamboyant so people want to keep reading about them.
2. Make the side characters the "real" characters, let them carry the revenge plots or similar things, creat characters that have distinct goals and growth around your pure evil MC, which will perfectly contrast the MC and keep the reader invested in the story (For an example of this look up the series "Overlord")

Obviously this is rather niche and will definetly not apeal to the broader audiences but I personally think they are rather good if executed corectly and it can be test of sorts for writers on writing characters.

But of course this is just my own opinon.

 

[Moonlight-sama]

Personally I think a Villain MC'S the way you describe them is a fine way of making a villain MC, and that there are many a story that can be written around such a core concept, but I think it is not the only way.

You could write like I do and write a villain MC completly unhinged, a person fitting of the description "Monster with human skin". A pure evil MC.
They are basically the complete opposite from what you described, there is no higher goal or motivation to their actions, they do it because it's funny to them or they are bored. Their relationships with other characters are either the other is a servant, a victim or someone who opposes them and their character always stays the same, they don't grow, they are static.

Now this alone would obviously be a terrible story, but these kinds of MC's can still work if you follow two rules.

1. Since their character is literally unable to change through growth, the only way to make readers invested in them is through their personallity, make them extremly charasmatic,funny, over the top or simply flamboyant so people want to keep reading about them.
2. Make the side characters the "real" characters, let them carry the revenge plots or similar things, creat characters that have distinct goals and growth around your pure evil MC, which will perfectly contrast the MC and keep the reader invested in the story (For an example of this look up the series "Overlord")

Obviously this is rather niche and will definetly not apeal to the broader audiences but I personally think they are rather good if executed corectly and it can be test of sorts for writers on writing characters.

But of course this is just my own opinon.

This is the kind of story that will have multiple character pov to make it good but this is a common type of a villain mc story

 

[JayDirex]

The concept itself is good but writing this kind of story with a sympathetic villain mc will spell trouble. Why you ask that is because depending on how the story will progress there will be a loophole in the story so I would suggest making the mc a ruthless from the start but the supporting characters will be there so that the mc won't cross the line becoming a total monster. In a sense the supporting characters will be the leverage of the mc, this is only my opinion depending on how you take it is your decision

Totally agree.

Personally I think a Villain MC'S the way you describe them is a fine way of making a villain MC, and that there are many a story that can be written around such a core concept, but I think it is not the only way.

You could write like I do and write a villain MC completly unhinged, a person fitting of the description "Monster with human skin". A pure evil MC.
They are basically the complete opposite from what you described, there is no higher goal or motivation to their actions, they do it because it's funny to them or they are bored. Their relationships with other characters are either the other is a servant, a victim or someone who opposes them and their character always stays the same, they don't grow, they are static.

Now this alone would obviously be a terrible story, but these kinds of MC's can still work if you follow two rules.

1. Since their character is literally unable to change through growth, the only way to make readers invested in them is through their personallity, make them extremly charasmatic,funny, over the top or simply flamboyant so people want to keep reading about them.
2. Make the side characters the "real" characters, let them carry the revenge plots or similar things, creat characters that have distinct goals and growth around your pure evil MC, which will perfectly contrast the MC and keep the reader invested in the story (For an example of this look up the series "Overlord")

Obviously this is rather niche and will definetly not apeal to the broader audiences but I personally think they are rather good if executed corectly and it can be test of sorts for writers on writing characters.

But of course this is just my own opinon.

This is good!

 

[NotaNuffian]

I often think that villain MCs are odd, since from my childhood, I was taught to root for the good guys and even if the MC is a "bad guy", they almost never go pass the moral event horizon and it feels weak sauce. Making them sympathetic and maybe their world shitty feels even worse, because the amount of justification for MC committing genocide is ridiculous that it should be a parody or comedy and not to be played for straight.

Then there are the genuine bastards like Slaughterer Hero MC, who I have no idea why he existed and is just distraught that he just wants to kill, WTF?! At least CN MCs bother to be a hypocrite.

So yeah... villain MCs are in my eyes are mid due to how overdone it is. I like Fang Yuan, but if you have to pull another "society" on me, ima out.

 

[Temple]

For me, a true Villain MC is one where the MC is the most evil character. There are many stories with supposedly villainous leads, but all the antagonists are all much worse characters. So, if all of them are evil, but the MC is the least evil, then that kind of looks like a normal story then?

What I mean by this, let's say you have a demo lord MC. Evil right? And he gets into a fight with the king of a human kingdom or something. But, it turns out that the king is the biggest asshole around, and the story makes it seem like the MC is justified in killing the MC because he was a tyrant anyway. Sooo...the MC isn't really a villain, after all? A lot of web novels are structured this way. But I understand why they are like that. They want the tag of Villain MC while still being a sort of "good guy" because most readers do want to be the good guy. That's not a Villain story though.
Just going to add that murderhobos make the Villain MC tag look bad because it takes away nuance. Although, murderhobos do seem to be the main type of true villain MC.

 

[JayDirex]

For me, a true Villain MC is one where the MC is the most evil character. There are many stories with supposedly villainous leads, but all the antagonists are all much worse characters. So, if all of them are evil, but the MC is the least evil, then that kind of looks like a normal story then?

What I mean by this, let's say you have a demo lord MC. Evil right? And he gets into a fight with the king of a human kingdom or something. But, it turns out that the king is the biggest asshole around, and the story makes it seem like the MC is justified in killing the MC because he was a tyrant anyway. Sooo...the MC isn't really a villain, after all? A lot of web novels are structured this way. But I understand why they are like that. They want the tag of Villain MC while still being a sort of "good guy" because most readers do want to be the good guy. That's not a Villain story though.
Just going to add that murderhobos make the Villain MC tag look bad because it takes away nuance. Although, murderhobos do seem to be the main type of true villain MC.

Yes I have also noticed this. But I think in the mainstream it's almost like K-pop. The bad boy is pretty he's a demon Lord he can do everything and he's kind to his harem. ... That's what mainstream readers want. But I'm sure there's some authors who go down the dark road. Where the villain is the most evil dude on the block.

Yet, at the same time. If you want to root for any character as an MC you want to feel good when he kills his opponent. So the opponent has to be worth it, you know what I mean. It's a conundrum.

 

[Moonlight-sama]

Yes I have also noticed this. But I think in the mainstream it's almost like K-pop. The bad boy is pretty he's a demon Lord he can do everything and he's kind to his harem. ... That's what mainstream readers want. But I'm sure there's some authors who go down the dark road. Where the villain is the most evil dude on the block.

Yet, at the same time. If you want to root for any character as an MC you want to feel good when he kills his opponent. So the opponent has to be worth it, you know what I mean. It's a conundrum.

A revenge type of story fits this description so well

 

[JayDirex]

A revenge type of story fits this description so well

Sure does. The revenge to get the evil guy at the end justifies the evil the MC does. But to not make it just seem like a good guy on a revenge flick he's got to be so ruthless that innocents get hurt.

 

[Moonlight-sama]

Sure does. The revenge to get the evil guy at the end justifies the evil the MC does. But to not make it just seem like a good guy on a revenge flick he's got to be so ruthless that innocents get hurt.

Collateral damage at it's finest

 

[Western42]

In my stories, I make it so that there is no real villain since, everyone is a villain in someone else's eyes. In that sense, you can make the MC go about with their goal, than have side stories/chapters that are on the other end, showing that, to them, the MC is pretty much a villain.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

want your villain to be suave and debonair.

You mean like, a villain with tentacles or lots of brute strength or a special enzyme that has an effect on your body?

 

[LotusEater]

A villain should be able to persuade you of his goals or reasonings, to have indisputable morality that twists everything you believe and convinces you whole heartedly that he is right and you are wrong. In fact right and wrong, good and evil do not exist and the villain should prove this. Anything less and the villain is unbelievable where they should be relatable. The villain is the center of the story, a bad villain ruins the thread of the narrative.

 

[patbateman123x]

based and chad pilled

Villains are really fûcking based. Conceptualized the friend enemy distinction, cold, stoic mind, no pussying around for pussy. No shitty ideals

 

[RICHIESPIDER505]

So a few minutes was in gen-chat discussing the villain as MC and what kind of story they make. And I wrote this:

The villain story is one of motivation. The reader will side with an MC villain who has a clear cut motivation and shows a ruthlessness about it. However you still want your villain to be suave and debonair. Either male or female. And the character should have an arc. In that arc, people become close to them. But at first the villain uses them but then the villain grows fond of the new people. And then they use their villainy to get their aims and still help their friends at the end.

Debate with me fellow Authors. Was my statement correct? What makes a villain MC story?

I am not authors but I read a lot hero and villian novel to see the difference is. A villain is person can female or male and thier goals are mostly Revenge, Conquer,Control , Pleasure what they do.Thier backstory mostly Tragic and who case is sometihing deal the hero or Corruption.The hero is mostly opposite of that set for the back story.To this mc u Describe is a antihero but that my opinion

 

[RavenRunes]

my MC: good guy -> villain ->worse villain ->destroyer of worlds ->repentant emo -> good(?) guy 'I did it all for love' (of a monster).

WELL IT SEEMS FINE TO ME

 

[Ai-chan]

So a few minutes was in gen-chat discussing the villain as MC and what kind of story they make. And I wrote this:

The villain story is one of motivation. The reader will side with an MC villain who has a clear cut motivation and shows a ruthlessness about it. However you still want your villain to be suave and debonair. Either male or female. And the character should have an arc. In that arc, people become close to them. But at first the villain uses them but then the villain grows fond of the new people. And then they use their villainy to get their aims and still help their friends at the end.

Debate with me fellow Authors. Was my statement correct? What makes a villain MC story?

Ai-chan can't say whether your statement is right or wrong. It is your interpretation. If you believe that is the kind of villain protagonist you want to make, then that's your right to write it.

However, in Ai-chan's opinion, a villain protagonist should be clear cut villain, either from the start to the end or gradually changing. You don't have to keep showing that he's evil the whole time, but the readers should be made aware that the protagonist is on the villain side and is aware that what he's doing is bad.

In Ai-chan's story, In Service of Evil, the protagonist Samantha (or Sarah, Ai-chan hasn't finalized her name) is a maid and servant of an eldritch horror. Her moral values are slowly corroded through acts that she herself would deem evil but she knowingly did it anyway as with every bad deed that she did, it desensitized her, following the lines of "I've already done ****, doing **** is not a big deal in comparison." But if she had compared what she's currently doing with the bad thing she was told to do at the start of her employment, she would've realized how much worse her current task is. In this case, she is gradually turning evil to match her master.

So in this case, is she a villain protagonist or is she a manipulated protagonist?