Trying too hard not to copy Tolkien

[Rezcore]

I’ve noticed there is a subset of writers that try their damnedest not to copy the world building of Tolkien, and I think a lot of the time it just makes what they write suck. Almost all of medieval fantasy is based of what Tolkien did, which was extremely innovative for the time. I see authors try a lot to be as innovative as lotr but often it just fails and makes thing weird arbitrarily.

I think it’s most common to see with ‘elves’. If you’ve ever been to the cesspit that is /r/worldbuilding you’ve probably already seen one of those posts like ‘This is what elves are like my world. They are ugly and smelly, and they only live for 3 seconds before dying.’

Do any of you who write fantasy stuff try not use generic troupes that were established by Tolkien? Or are you like me who doesn’t really care at all?

In my world I have many of the "Tolkien" races, so I don't really care if people think it's derivative. His works were derivative of older stories also. Though I genuinely hate his version of elves, mine are based on east Asian cultures. Though i do, shamelessly, rip some of R. A. Salvatore ideas on drow.

 

[Deleted member 146224]

I’ve noticed there is a subset of writers that try their damnedest not to copy the world building of Tolkien, and I think a lot of the time it just makes what they write suck. Almost all of medieval fantasy is based of what Tolkien did, which was extremely innovative for the time. I see authors try a lot to be as innovative as lotr but often it just fails and makes thing weird arbitrarily.

I think it’s most common to see with ‘elves’. If you’ve ever been to the cesspit that is /r/worldbuilding you’ve probably already seen one of those posts like ‘This is what elves are like my world. They are ugly and smelly, and they only live for 3 seconds before dying.’

Do any of you who write fantasy stuff try not use generic troupes that were established by Tolkien? Or are you like me who doesn’t really care at all?

I don't really care. I'm not ripping anything anyways. I refuse to go through hoops to be "not like the other girls writers", unless I have a revelation in my sleep or something. Otherwise it will be forced and it will show. Being different for the sake of being different rarely ends well.

 

[Succubiome]

Do any of you who write fantasy stuff try not use generic troupes that were established by Tolkien? Or are you like me who doesn’t really care at all?

I basically write whatever I want, and let the cards fall where they may. Obviously I'm influenced by things, but I don't think I feel any need to either cleave to the lines that have been set by others, nor subvert them, except insofar as it makes the story closer to what I want. Of course sometimes the story is in itself sort of following a certain line to it's logical conclusion, or a subversion, so... hmm.

All in all, I'd rather authors make glorious new mistakes when writing than carefully follow formulas out of fear of being bad. You don't get interesting writers that way, in the long run.

 

[LilRora]

The only thing I care about doing my worldbuilding is if something is interesting and believable for me, though I often avoid the most popular tropes because people often have a lot of preconceptions about them. It's not like I'm actively trying to make them different though; dwarves will be the same in any story I might write, and if I want a different race, I'll make a different race.

Plus, on a related note, there's a concept that applies equally well in learning as it does in writing, you need to start with what you know and move forward steadily, adding more and more unknown things. Starting with a generic race is as good a start as any, and throwing readers into a story with thirteen different races they know nothing about is probably not a good idea.

 

[Zirrboy]

I think calling them Tolkien elves is part of the problem. A single person's idea, rather than folklore or other forms of collective creativity, seems to evoke a much stronger impression of ownership and hence plagiarism if you were to adapt it.

Obviously it's hard to deny that Tolkien's were one of the best-selling fantasy works and that most modern uses of the term 'elf' refer to something that strongly resembles his, but he's also the only ever mentioned link in the chain of adaption. The name isn't something that he came up with, but by using it your idea will inevitably be put in context with the Tolkien variant, rather than RPGs or similar whose version probably have a bigger direct influence on present day fantasy writers.

 

[Sylver]

Hmmm

I'm hoping people read my story with an open mind, because it's set in a fantasy medieval setting from my own invention. There's no set rules so far, just me having fun with it. Like in my cannon, the thing about elves living for centuries like with Tolkien's work is debunked as a rumor by an elf who gets annoyed whenever people spread that stereotype. Also my story has different subspecies of each species, so like different types of Elves like Wood Elves and Dark Elves.

Heck, Elves and Humans are closely related in my work. Elves are ancient humans so to speak, Humans came from Elves and evolved differently due to migration and adaptation to new environments. Just my own spin on things to have fun with my own lore

It's not so much that I am trying not to copy Tolkien in that regard, it's that I find Elves and Dwarves way overused and just.... Boring. Even the 'edgy' versions in Warhammer and WH40k. I was always more interested in the Ents and the Balrogs, even the Watcher in the Water. I have spent hours going through the DnD and Pathfinder bestiaries. Mythology as well is full of neat, interesting critters. With all the various ideas out there already, why waste page space on the same thing as everyone else?

Personally I find dwarves to be underutilized we only had Gimli in the LotR trilogy and the other dwarves in The Hobbit didn't really stand out for me. I hardly learned much about what differentiates them as a race. Like what's there culture like and what do the Dwarven women look like?

But hey, I only watched the movies I read the book for The Hobbit though, if that counts. Still didn't learn much about dwarves haha

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Now that I think about, I've never saw anyone copy Tolkien's worldbuilding. Tropes, yes, as for worldbuilding? People like to complain about elves or dwarfes, the superficial stuff they saw in movies, but I've never seen people complain about Arda being created by singing, nor did I see similar words. And I'm not even scratching the surface when I mention creation of Arda. People who don't want to be like Tolkien should at least read Silmarillion. That way they would be able to move in the right direction.

 

[beast_regards]

Just take tolkien and add cat girls.

No, replace the elves with catgirls.

No elf, no problem.

 

[Shrimp_eater]

No, replace the elves with catgirls.

No elf, no problem.

No one likes those knife-ears anyway

 

[Cortavar]

Caveat: I don't write.

I do, however, master and play Tabletop RPGs, so I have designed and played in a few fantasy settings along the years.

Tolkien races are a good starting point, because they're easily recognized by anyone, meaning you're not going to lose your newcomer. Of course, unless you actually want to play in Middle Earth, you're not going to have the exact same setting, so your elves will be a little different.

And that's actually a good way to introduce your version of elves: "oh, yeah, we've got elves in this world, still tall and eary, loves a longbow, but they're different from Tolkien elves on this and that point". It provides context, and allows you to have both familiarity and originality, in a fairly low time.

Same goes for space opera. You want to give your players a sense of the tech? Just compare it to Star Wars already, point the difference, and everyone shares the same universe!

My point is that benchmarking yourself to a widely known reference is a fast and efficient way to share the specificities of your setting. It will work when you communicate outside of the setting itself, like online forums or pre game night discussions, but the descriptions still need to be woven into the story.

That being said, if you want to describe your elves as small, girthy, beardy beings who love forging and beer, just to be different, you can skip the trouble and call them dwarves already, and everyone will know what you're talking about.