Tried my hand at some shounen

CanOfTuna

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Eldoria

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CanOfTuna

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Just to make sure the discussion is going well... what aspect of your writing would you like feedback on?

People might make random comments if you just ask, "What do you think about it?"
That's the question innit? Anything works haha

But to be precise, I would like to know if the scene captivates a typical shounen/action vibe.

If the conversations are easy to follow, i.e. whose line it is etc.

And if the scenario makes sense so to speak?
 

Eldoria

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Sorry, my feedback may have been too honest and harsh. I'm considering not giving feedback this time after reading your manuscript.
 

CanOfTuna

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Sorry, my feedback may have been too honest and harsh. I'm considering not giving feedback this time after reading your manuscript.
Did you send feedback? Didn't get to see it. You don’t have to worry about harshness as honesty is more important for me. Can't only have glazed donuts can we?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read it !
 

Eldoria

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Did you send feedback? Didn't get to see it. You don’t have to worry about harshness as honesty is more important for me. Can't only have glazed donuts can we?

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read it !
Well, I'll write feedback once I'm in a better mood. I still feel bad, especially after writing such honest feedback to a new member who didn't even react, as if my feedback was just empty air. :blob_teary:
 

Nyctoria

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Well, I'll write feedback once I'm in a better mood. I still feel bad, especially after writing such honest feedback to a new member who didn't even react, as if my feedback was just empty air. :blob_teary:
Maybe they just didn't see your feedback or active and need @Leti to accuse them of ignoring you.
 

Fairemont

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I'll give you some feedback in @Eldoria's stead, that way, they can have their much-needed respite.

So, the overall vibe I get here boils down to a "meh". Meh in that it is neither good, nor bad. It has good moments, bad moments, and a lot in between. It is neither a stand-out scene, nor does it fall flat on its face.

I think the biggest thing hurting it is that it is an isolated, one-off scene, and because of that, you stuffed content into it that didn't really need to be there. Alternatively, if I am mistaken, and this is actually part of an ongoing story, there is content misplaced and it is harming you, especially at the beginning.

I can't copy paste it, so giving examples is a bit tricky.

However, there's the two paragraph bit about his father's beliefs, a bit about the Saintess, a little more content on the crowd, and more regarding Phila and Esther, as well as other noteworthy individuals.

These bits take the wind out of your sails. As action begins rising, building up, you have added details that sort of set it back and would be better placed well-beforehand or after the scene entirely.

On a more positive note, once you get to the actual bout between these two duelists you take off. There's no more of this interrupting exposition. The dialogue is a tad clunky here and there, but serviceable. The momentum and cadence of the scene is good. The general concept behind it is good. A put-them-in-their-place scene is a classic of shounen stories, so having one in yours is a good thing. It also establishes that your protagonist is clever enough to pull something like that off.

I think one thing holding the action back is the lack of descriptions. We get a little bit, but I'd say trying to get about 20% more visual would go a *long* way. So, a little more detail on how they move, act, react, etc., especially when the tides turn and Eric takes the lead.

We just get the beep, beep, beep and can assume he's making clean strikes, but even a single sentence describing what he's doing, and how, here and there would be a massive improvement.

So, yeah, I think it's a decent scene, but nothing that will stand out in the grand scheme of your story as "that was my favorite scene". However, it has the groundwork laid for a really good action scene, so dabbling with it, refining the presentation, organization of information, and adding a liiitle more detail to the actual action will bring it up from "meh" to "heck yeah!" in short order.

You seem to have the writing chops for it, too, so its just a matter of going back, looking it over, really trying to visualize it yourself, and then put what you see onto the paper.

:blob_paint:
 
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Eldoria

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Maybe they just didn't see your feedback or active and need @Leti to accuse them of ignoring you.
It's almost impossible for the new member not to see my feedback. I wrote it yesterday, and today the person asked for honest feedback in the open feedback thread.

I don't mind that my feedback wasn't accepted... I already mentioned my feedback might be biased in the notes.

But ignoring the person who gave the feedback is simply unreasonable... at least react or say "okay" out of social etiquette.
 

Nyctoria

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It's almost impossible for the new member not to see my feedback. I wrote it yesterday, and today the person asked for honest feedback in the open feedback thread.

I don't mind that my feedback wasn't accepted... I already mentioned my feedback might be biased in the notes.

But ignoring the person who gave the feedback is simply unreasonable... at least react or say "okay" out of social etiquette.
No one must have taught them this mythical skill social etiquette.
 

CanOfTuna

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I'll give you some feedback in @Eldoria's stead, that way, they can have their much-needed respite.

So, the overall vibe I get here boils down to a "meh". Meh in that it is neither good, nor bad. It has good moments, bad moments, and a lot in between. It is neither a stand-out scene, nor does it fall flat on its face.

I think the biggest thing hurting it is that it is an isolated, one-off scene, and because of that, you stuffed content into it that didn't really need to be there. Alternatively, if I am mistaken, and this is actually part of an ongoing story, there is content misplaced and it is harming you, especially at the beginning.

I can't copy paste it, so giving examples is a bit tricky.

However, there's the two paragraph bit about his father's beliefs, a bit about the Saintess, a little more content on the crowd, and more regarding Phila and Esther, as well as other noteworthy individuals.

These bits take the wind out of your sails. As action begins rising, building up, you have added details that sort of set it back and would be better placed well-beforehand or after the scene entirely.

On a more positive note, once you get to the actual bout between these two duelists you take off. There's no more of this interrupting exposition. The dialogue is a tad clunky here and there, but serviceable. The momentum and cadence of the scene is good. The general concept behind it is good. A put-them-in-their-place scene is a classic of shounen stories, so having one in yours is a good thing. It also establishes that your protagonist is clever enough to pull something like that off.

I think one thing holding the action back is the lack of descriptions. We get a little bit, but I'd say trying to get about 20% more visual would go a *long* way. So, a little more detail on how they move, act, react, etc., especially when the tides turn and Eric takes the lead.

We just get the beep, beep, beep and can assume he's making clean strikes, but even a single sentence describing what he's doing, and how, here and there would be a massive improvement.

So, yeah, I think it's a decent scene, but nothing that will stand out in the grand scheme of your story as "that was my favorite scene". However, it has the groundwork laid for a really good action scene, so dabbling with it, refining the presentation, organization of information, and adding a liiitle more detail to the actual action will bring it up from "meh" to "heck yeah!" in short order.

You seem to have the writing chops for it, too, so its just a matter of going back, looking it over, really trying to visualize it yourself, and then put what you see onto the paper.

:blob_paint:
(Oops forgot to mention that this was a snippet in an ongoing story, to add some lore to the side character(Eric).)

Did not expect such and in-depth feedback , love it ! :blob_popcorn:

Reading the text again with your comments in mind, I have to wonder why I didn't catch those types of problems before. The rhythm for instance.

And the descriptions of the fight, I will see what my brain can cook up to make it 20% more interesting. I thought too much added descriptions would make the scene less snappy, but that must be my newbieness showing.

Again, thanks ! I will probably post a revised version soon if that interests you?
 

Fairemont

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(Oops forgot to mention that this was a snippet in an ongoing story, to add some lore to the side character(Eric).)

Did not expect such and in-depth feedback , love it ! :blob_popcorn:

Reading the text again with your comments in mind, I have to wonder why I didn't catch those types of problems before. The rhythm for instance.

And the descriptions of the fight, I will see what my brain can cook up to make it 20% more interesting. I thought too much added descriptions would make the scene less snappy, but that must be my newbieness showing.

Again, thanks ! I will probably post a revised version soon if that interests you?

There is a balance between minimalistic approach to snappy action and leaving it a little too threadbare. You don't want to add much, and if you do, it is going to be short and quick.

Short, brief sentences. Bursts of movement, flicks of the wrists. A quick riposte. A deft parry.

Interspersed within the dialogue, adding rises and falls to the action. Beats that move the reader, and flow with the tempo.

It doesn't need to be much, just enough to evoke an image. Keep in mind that not all readers know the ins-and-outs of fencing. Use that to your advantage, because even the basics can be a big improvement.

How they stand, how they move. The way their equipment reacts and sounds. How it feels to be struck, what it feels like to strike the opponent.

All of these are potential options, and all of them should be easy to work with.

If you do make adjustments and want me to take a second look just let me know.

:blob_paint:
 

Joyager2

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There's a lot to be said about how much you say. I know that it's a convention of shounen (and prose in general that's styled after visual mediums like manga and comics) and that I'm not your target audience there, but I have some advice anyway.

My biggest gripe is how blunt you are. Everything is on the nose, everything is in the open. At the beginning of the scene, for instance, you repeat Eric's father's words (perhaps you've written them before in the story, if not it's fine to have them here) and then immediately tell us what Eric is thinking. Worse than that, you have Eric himself tell us. There's a line of dialogue where he talks about how nervous he is to himself, and therefore, the audience. The dialogue itself is clunky, but that's another issue. You do the same thing later on where you point out the surprising turn of events that have brought Eric, Esther, and the Saintess back to the dueling spot. And again when you Siegfried loses.

Overall, you're saying too much. In each of these situations (and more), you give us a solid setup where we can infer the feelings, understand the juxtaposition, and understand the weight of events on our own, but you then say outright what's already been implied. It makes what you've written feel repetitive and flat. Trust your readers a little bit more.

Fairemont talked pretty at length about how you could improve your descriptions and help us feel the scene a little more, but I want to talk also about the feelings we as readers are supposed to have going in. Are we supposed to be nervous for Eric? Are we supposed to understand that he is in danger, that he could lose? Are we supposed to feel the tension that the crowd feels, watching him get pummeled (and then the triumph of him winning)? If so, we need more time to settle. Spend some more time with the other characters at the start of the chapter. Does Lucas have anything else to say? Are his emotions strong? What about Phila, who seems nervous? Some insight into the source of this worry in these characters (and perhaps some clear demonstrations of Siegfried as a dangerous opponent) would help make your readers feel the tense push-and-pull of the duel.

Finally, your dialgue is...very shounen, mainly in that it's over-the-top, melodramatic, and largely removed from how actual people speak. That's fine if that's what you're going for, but like I said earlier, as someone who's technically not your target audience, I think there's room for improvement.

Overall, I think, lots to work on. But you have some very strong bones here.
 

CanOfTuna

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Finally, your dialgue is...very shounen, mainly in that it's over-the-top, melodramatic, and largely removed from how actual people speak. That's fine if that's what you're going for, but like I said earlier, as someone who's technically not your target audience, I think there's room for improvement.
Nice, I got the vibe down at least :blob_joy:

Fairemont talked pretty at length about how you could improve your descriptions and help us feel the scene a little more, but I want to talk also about the feelings we as readers are supposed to have going in. Are we supposed to be nervous for Eric? Are we supposed to understand that he is in danger, that he could lose? Are we supposed to feel the tension that the crowd feels, watching him get pummeled (and then the triumph of him winning)? If so, we need more time to settle. Spend some more time with the other characters at the start of the chapter. Does Lucas have anything else to say? Are his emotions strong? What about Phila, who seems nervous? Some insight into the source of this worry in these characters (and perhaps some clear demonstrations of Siegfried as a dangerous opponent) would help make your readers feel the tense push-and-pull of the duel

I may have shot myself in the foot by only taking a snapshot of a larger chapter. In actuality, this scene is only filler to lure the reader into a sense of normalcy(?) before the main plotline takes over again. Not to say that I shouldn't uphold the same standard of writing.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write a feedback, I will think more about how to develop the scene !
 
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Fairemont

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Joyager does bring up a good point. Establishing a bit more of the mood would help. However, we might be missing a lot of that preceding emotion as this is a snippet, rather than the whole story.

That being said, doubling down and really stoking the flames of whatever emotion you build up will also be valuable when improving the scene.

It is good advice. I'd act on it. :blob_paint:
 

CanOfTuna

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There is a balance between minimalistic approach to snappy action and leaving it a little too threadbare. You don't want to add much, and if you do, it is going to be short and quick.

Short, brief sentences. Bursts of movement, flicks of the wrists. A quick riposte. A deft parry.

Interspersed within the dialogue, adding rises and falls to the action. Beats that move the reader, and flow with the tempo.

It doesn't need to be much, just enough to evoke an image. Keep in mind that not all readers know the ins-and-outs of fencing. Use that to your advantage, because even the basics can be a big improvement.

How they stand, how they move. The way their equipment reacts and sounds. How it feels to be struck, what it feels like to strike the opponent.

All of these are potential options, and all of them should be easy to work with.

If you do make adjustments and want me to take a second look just let me know.

:blob_paint:
https://ellipsus.com/read/4FPpal9Gp84KrQAGBJBIF/Eric-shounen-2

The long awaited sequel !

I took your guyses comments in consideration but don't really know if I did it right? Cut out some unneeded exposition and a few filter-words.

@Joyager2 would you like to check it out too?

imma slep now
 

Joyager2

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https://ellipsus.com/read/4FPpal9Gp84KrQAGBJBIF/Eric-shounen-2

The long awaited sequel !

I took your guyses comments in consideration but don't really know if I did it right? Cut out some unneeded exposition and a few filter-words.

@Joyager2 would you like to check it out too?

imma slep now
Still not for me, but this is much better. The only other bit of advice I'll offer is that, occasionally, your narration becomes too personal. While third person doesn't have to be cold and detached and you can mix your character's thoughts with the removed point of view, you occasionally overstep and break into first person. When Eric thinks of his father's advice and says, 'Thanks,' is a good example. Later on when Eric's first response to Siegfried's arrogance is, 'Yikes,' is another. It's a bit strange and jarring, and, if I were you, I'd do what I could to smooth it out so that your readers don't feel like they're being pulled from one point of view to another.
 
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