The fantasy potion making processes

[Zagaroth]

I think that is part of the point, as alchemy is not science, and it took a long time for proper chemistry on scientific principles. Until then, it was mostly trial and error, with discoveries being mostly coincidence.

Yes, but in a world with magic, it actually works, so it's not the same as RW alchemy (which mostly did not work). And Alchemists know how to make it work. So that means they have learned the rules.

That's the thing with a world where magic is reliably repeatable. If it is repeatable, it has rules. If it has rules, those rules can be learned and analyzed.

I don't treat such magic as not being scientific, I treat it as not being technology. Technology is externalized and can be readily built up by using tool A to build better tool B, etc.

With magic, each user must build up their personal understanding and strength individually, though external sources of knowledge can make this process much more efficient. This even applies to enchanted tools used by non-mages, such as magic swords.

A novice swordsman can not master an ancient holy relic and gains only some basic benefits if they try to wield it. An experienced veteran with a strong will and focused intent on the other hand can call out all of its power.

A sword enhanced by technology somehow doesn't care about the wielder's developed mental fortitude and understanding of swordsmanship, though depending upon the technology it may require some minimal skill to use the enhancement (such as knowing how to recharge/replace a batter and turn it on, for powered features)

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Yes, but in a world with magic, it actually works, so it's not the same as RW alchemy (which mostly did not work). And Alchemists know how to make it work. So that means they have learned the rules.

That's the thing with a world where magic is reliably repeatable. If it is repeatable, it has rules. If it has rules, those rules can be learned and analyzed.

I don't treat such magic as not being scientific, I treat it as not being technology. Technology is externalized and can be readily built up by using tool A to build better tool B, etc.

With magic, each user must build up their personal understanding and strength individually, though external sources of knowledge can make this process much more efficient. This even applies to enchanted tools used by non-mages, such as magic swords.

A novice swordsman can not master an ancient holy relic and gains only some basic benefits if they try to wield it. An experienced veteran with a strong will and focused intent on the other hand can call out all of its power.

A sword enhanced by technology somehow doesn't care about the wielder's developed mental fortitude and understanding of swordsmanship, though depending upon the technology it may require some minimal skill to use the enhancement (such as knowing how to recharge/replace a batter and turn it on, for powered features)

Chemistry also worked, and was repeatable, yet it took until the 18th century until we had a proper one because until then it was often lumped together with alchemy. Exactly because they had no understanding of it.

People were building giant monuments without having the slightest idea of gravity and statics. Yet it worked. They couldn't explain how or why, but the intuitively knew.

The thing is you presume a world where the scientific theory exists, which is not a given at all and not an immediate outcome. In fact, it took millennia for such a mindset to emerge, and in very specific circumstances confined to a certain corner of the world no less.

That is why I don't think it is realistic for a scientific mindset to automatically emerge with magic when it took so long with science.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Chemistry also worked, and was repeatable, yet it took until the 18th century until we had a proper one because until then it was often lumped together with alchemy. Exactly because they had no understanding of it.

People were building giant monuments without having the slightest idea of gravity and statics. Yet it worked. They couldn't explain how or why, but the intuitively knew.

The thing is you presume a world where the scientific theory exists, which is not a given at all and not an immediate outcome. In fact, it took millennia for such a mindset to emerge, and in very specific circumstances confined to a certain corner of the world no less.

That is why I don't think it is realistic for a scientific mindset to automatically emerge with magic when it took so long with science.

Well, with those monuments (and a lot of the early alchemical experiments) there was a lot of trial and error. Often lethal errors, setting things back a few decades...

Though some of the most impressive monuments, like the Pyramids of Egypt, were done with intensive mathematics that did not need to understand the underlying physics - the numbers worked, it must be the will of the gods!

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Well, with those monuments (and a lot of the early alchemical experiments) there was a lot of trial and error. Often lethal errors, setting things back a few decades...

Though some of the most impressive monuments, like the Pyramids of Egypt, were done with intensive mathematics that did not need to understand the underlying physics - the numbers worked, it must be the will of the gods!

That was exactly the point. Trial and error. Or rather, you do not necessarily need to understand something completely in order to do it.

 

[Zagaroth]

That was exactly the point. Trial and error. Or rather, you do not necessarily need to understand something completely in order to do it.

Fair, but fantasy worlds also tend to have deep histories and thus nations/states that were stable enough to keep thousand+ year old records.

If they were developed enough to have medieval-esque castles and high-quality steel millennia ago, some semblance of that rigor should have had a chance to develop. It doesn't have to be as well-developed or rigorous as ours, but some basic rules should be understood.

I'm looking at the 1100's here. For comparison, De Vinci was born in 1452, and, genius that he was, he also failed at scientific rigor fairly often.

 

[Assurbanipal_II]

Fair, but fantasy worlds also tend to have deep histories and thus nations/states that were stable enough to keep thousand+ year old records.

If they were developed enough to have medieval-esque castles and high-quality steel millennia ago, some semblance of that rigor should have had a chance to develop. It doesn't have to be as well-developed or rigorous as ours, but some basic rules should be understood.

I'm looking at the 1100's here. For comparison, De Vinci was born in 1452, and, genius that he was, he also failed at scientific rigor fairly often.

The scientific theory is a social question, primarily. Not a technological one.

As the thousands of years, that should be taken more metaphorically.

 

[corruption]

I can just imagine a Deity of Magic laughing to themself as they watch mortals throw all kinds of weird stuff together to drink. All because the deity figured to have a laugh.
Some Egyptian remedies were horrific. Hippo dung, crocodile dung, fly dung, fat from someone of a certain ethnicity and more, just in the one remedy. They used coc dung as a contraceptive! If you need horrible remedies, just look as what was done in real life!

 

[Llamadragon]

It sounds ok to me. I wouldn't think anything was off if I read the passage.

But if alchemy is important in your book, go deeper. What kind of alchemy is used in this world? Is it another word for chemistry? Is it spell-work? Is it like those medieval alchemy movements that were spiritual practices and mixing stuff in bottles wasn't actually the point? If it's important to sterilize bottles, does this guy know (or care) or is he just wiping the bottle clean with a rag?

You could add a lot of flavor to your world easily here with just a sentence or two.