The Dense/Doormat/Beta MC

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I've noticed from the novels that I read, not only in this site but in others as well, that when a certain MC displays a passive, 'pushover', non-assuming behavior towards others, they are quickly labeled as 'Doormat'/'Dense'/'Beta'.

Well, while I don't try to contest such beliefs, I'd like to try to explain why the 'Dense, Japanese MC' stereotype exists.

First off, though Asia is a big continent enough to have several subcontinents and diversity in cultures, one cannot deny the fact that most Asian cultures lean on the conservative side. This meant, though it may sound questionable to Westerners, that there's a certain bias towards the men over women. Yep, we're highly patriarchal.

So, influenced by this, we mostly are given the education that women should be given certain priviledges they should enjoy. Thus, the MCs that are kind (sometimes unconditional to the point of being seen as a pushover) to the ladies.

Second, we have that perception that men who often speak, are generally seen as effiminate. Also, men who fight back against women physically or verbally. In fact, there were countries (like mine), that if you physically hurt a woman regardless of the circumstance, the case could be turned against you. Yeah, it sounds weird, but it does exist.

And so explains the quiet, 'pushover' MC.

Third, we are educated to treat the ladies with reserved behavior, meaning, those men who aggressively pursue or pick-up a lady on the street is generally frowned upon, and can even get that guy arrested. Thus, the shy-type MCs, especially around women.

Okay. Let me be clear that I'm not defending these practices. I'm just trying to explain why the 'Beta' MC exists in the eyes of the Western audiences.

You see, we may be the shy, quiet, 'pushovers', however, we prefer to let out our aggressiveness over something else, like in the fields of science, literature, etc. That's why the Asian dad meme, and the OP, but dense MC exists. Again, this is a product of a generally-strict Asian household.

Take note, though this may be common, there are exceptions to the rule...especially in Asian societies heavily influenced by Western standards. But generally, it's been like that before globalization.

So yeah, this is what I observed while going around in webnovel platforms like ScribbleHub.
 

Saileri

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I have nothing against those tropes and they are enjoyable in their own way, but when there's literally zero development in the MC who for eg. got yeeted to another world and spends like a year or more doing various stuff there, and is still being the same level of withdrawn from all the friends or lovers he has around, is a slight turn off. It's not easy to change who you are obviously, but we often start opening up to those in our close circles, while still being a similar way we used to, to the others. A total inexistence of any kind of development bores me a bit.

Oh well, I kinda hate the overly comedic type of denseness tho. It's just not my thing I guess. I don't mind the 'normal' amount. I like reading about more firm MC's, but I don't throw away other types instantly.

When it comes to writing, I'd rather think about what type of MC would fit the story idea, than just slap the one personality I like and go with it. But well, it always can end up at saying "a good author will portray everything in an interesting way", and while that's true, we are not perfect existences.
 
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I have nothing against those tropes and they are enjoyable in their own way, but when there's literally zero development in the MC who for eg. got yeeted to another world and spends like a year or more doing various stuff there, and is still being the same level of withdrawn from all the friends or lovers he has around, is a slight turn off. It's not easy to change who you are obviously, but we often start opening up to those in our close circles, while still being a similar way we used to, to the others. A total inexistence of any kind of development bores me a bit.

Oh well, I kinda hate the overly comedic type of denseness tho. It's just not my thing I guess. I don't mind the 'normal' amount. I like reading about more firm MC's, but I don't throw away other types instantly.

When it comes to writing, I'd rather think about what type of MC would fit the story idea, than just slap the one personality I like and go with it. But well, it always can end up at saying "a good author will portray everything in an interesting way", and while that's true, we are not perfect existences.
Ah indeed.

The lack of development of a character sure is bad. And the overly dense MC is, well, sometimes could be a way to satire the typical asian guy. Also, add the flat FL characters, and the story would be good as forgotten.

Also, on a related note, the isekai genre had degenerated into wish-fulfillment stories. While that in itself isn't that bad, but the lack of diversity of ideas because there's an unofficial set of rules or expectations regarding the isekai is making the trope stale.

Sex, and cheat skills because it's popular, and those who try something else are in the danger of being shot down because some readers don't agree to their story's direction.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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1595424560306.png

:blob_evil_two:
 
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I had to think about it when I read your post. Cross-cultural perception of certain behaviour patterns differ even among countries close on the Lewis scala. Just compare American and German discussion culture.:blob_evil_two:
Yep, and the values of each culture affect the literature of each society.

Thus, many of the Japanese LNs have the Beta MCs, and so are the others. What differentiates the stories is how the characters would develop, which, as the state of isekai genre shows, often failed to deliver.

Oh, and thanks for the illustration. I'll show this to my students. ^_^
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Yep, and the values of each culture affect the literature of each society.

Thus, many of the Japanese LNs have the Beta MCs, and so are the others. What differentiates the stories is how the characters would develop, which, as the state of isekai genre shows, often failed to deliver.

Oh, and thanks for the illustration. I'll show this to my students. ^_^

O.o Your are a teacher?

:blob_evil_two: Anyway, on part of the Beta males. The western perception is not entirely wrong. Japanese society is still strongly hierarchical and conformist, with a grip that can for legitimate reasons be considered stifling and even oppressive.

So the novels, albeit an exaggeration of reality, are not that far from the truth.
 
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O.o Your are teacher?

:blob_evil_two: Anyway, on part of the Beta males. The western perception is not entirely wrong. Japanese society is still strongly hierarchical and conformist, with a grip that can for legitimate reasons be considered stifling and even oppressive.

So the novels, albeit an exaggeration of reality, are not that far from the truth.

Yep, and not only the Japanese society, but the general Asian cultures as well. I'm not saying the western perception is wrong; I'm just explaining why it led to such kinds of MCs. As one of our authors here said, literature is the mirror of its society.

And yes, I'm a teacher. ^_^
 

Samuel_Spader

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So... it's basically a culture shock, then?

And thank you for this explanation; it may not ease my hatred towards those 'beta' Japanese pussies, but at least now I can understand why most of those MCs are written as such so that I won't judge too harshly.

This knowledge may not help my career, but it broadens my perception... at least...
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Yep, and not only the Japanese society, but the general Asian cultures as well. I'm not saying the western perception is wrong; I'm just explaining why it led to such kinds of MCs. As one of our authors here said, literature is the mirror of its society.

And yes, I'm a teacher. ^_^

Germanistik, I assume? ^^
 
D

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So... it's basically a culture shock, then?

And thank you for this explanation; it may not ease my hatred towards those 'beta' Japanese pussies, but at least now I can understand why most of those MCs are written as such so that I won't judge too harshly.

This knowledge may not help my career, but it broadens my perception... at least...
Thanks for that! ^_^
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Err...actually, I'm a Filipino literature and language teacher. And Hans Trondheim is actually a pen name I chose randomly. >.<

Lol, you got me. <.<

Filipino literature? O.o Serious question, does this even exist? Didn't the Spanish colonisation destroy everything?
 

Nanakawaichan

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I've noticed from the novels that I read, not only in this site but in others as well, that when a certain MC displays a passive, 'pushover', non-assuming behavior towards others, they are quickly labeled as 'Doormat'/'Dense'/'Beta'.

Well, while I don't try to contest such beliefs, I'd like to try to explain why the 'Dense, Japanese MC' stereotype exists.

First off, though Asia is a big continent enough to have several subcontinents and diversity in cultures, one cannot deny the fact that most Asian cultures lean on the conservative side. This meant, though it may sound questionable to Westerners, that there's a certain bias towards the men over women. Yep, we're highly patriarchal.

So, influenced by this, we mostly are given the education that women should be given certain priviledges they should enjoy. Thus, the MCs that are kind (sometimes unconditional to the point of being seen as a pushover) to the ladies.

Second, we have that perception that men who often speak, are generally seen as effiminate. Also, men who fight back against women physically or verbally. In fact, there were countries (like mine), that if you physically hurt a woman regardless of the circumstance, the case could be turned against you. Yeah, it sounds weird, but it does exist.

And so explains the quiet, 'pushover' MC.

Third, we are educated to treat the ladies with reserved behavior, meaning, those men who aggressively pursue or pick-up a lady on the street is generally frowned upon, and can even get that guy arrested. Thus, the shy-type MCs, especially around women.

Okay. Let me be clear that I'm not defending these practices. I'm just trying to explain why the 'Beta' MC exists in the eyes of the Western audiences.

You see, we may be the shy, quiet, 'pushovers', however, we prefer to let out our aggressiveness over something else, like in the fields of science, literature, etc. That's why the Asian dad meme, and the OP, but dense MC exists. Again, this is a product of a generally-strict Asian household.

Take note, though this may be common, there are exceptions to the rule...especially in Asian societies heavily influenced by Western standards. But generally, it's been like that before globalization.

So yeah, this is what I observed while going around in webnovel platforms like ScribbleHub.
I agree with this. I also feel the same thing. A confident man with a little shyness is more attractive than overly confident man. Because a little shyness and dense are actually a plus. It's make us (asian women) want to find about them more. Men are also seen as family protectors in my country. This stereotypes are difficult to change, and that also affects my writing, which describes my two MCs as his family / kingdom / harem protector.
 
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Lol, you got me. <.<

Filipino literature? O.o Serious question, does this even exist? Didn't the Spanish colonisation destroy everything?
Well, we do have our literature during the Spanish Era, like 'Florante and Laura', 'Noli Me Tangere' and 'El Filibusterismo'. The last two actually caused a revolution in our country during the late 1890s that led to the First Philippine Republic (the first republic to exist in Asia).

As for the American and Commonwealth era, Filipino-language literature was dropped in favor of English-language literature, but Filipino in culture. Then when the Japanese came during WW2, they encouraged the Filipino-language literature in an effort to erase the American influence. This would lead to the development of both English and Filipino language literature during the post-WW2 era (1948-1960s).

During the time of President Marcos and the Martial Law, most of the relevant literature in the Philippines talked about government oppression and rebellion. When Marcos fell after the 1986 People Power revolution, the contemporary Philippine Literature began its existence.

Though most of the authors after the Marcos era discussed about the poor and the society, lately, our literature developed into a more diverse background, but you could feel that it's mostly focused on romance. Because, well, Filipinos are highly-romantic people. It's not that globalize yet, but we do have a lot of literature here, especially in Wattpad.
 

TachimeSan

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Lol, you got me. <.<

Filipino literature? O.o Serious question, does this even exist? Didn't the Spanish colonisation destroy everything?

There's quite a number of Filipino literatures actually, Noli Me Tàngere and El Filibusterismo to name a few.
 
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There's quite a number of Filipino literatures actually, Noli Me Tàngere and El Filibusterismo to name a few.
Honestly, it's quite understandable that it's not that very well-known, considering that most of the contemporary Filipino writers are concentrated in Filipino Wattpad with the overused romantic cliches. Noli Me Tangere and El Filibusterismo are quite old to not to relate to a younger audience (unless they're university students).

But then again, we're both here, and we can contribute to the development of our own literature. ^_^
 
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