The clone spell in D&D

[NotaNuffian]

How genuinely broken is it?

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For starters, it is a level eight spell that can only be initiated by a wizard, those who want to clone themselves can get a wizard capable of casting said spell and provide one cubic inch (cuz murica) of their own biomass as resource. And same as how Rick survives all that BS by somehow sending his soul through all the planes and dimensions and into an empty vessel, as long as the soul is free and willing, they can do body leaps upon deaths with ease. The maturity time of the clone isn't that long as well, up to 120 days, that is a third of a year or four months. Once it is fully mature, you can go do apeshit with an extra life, provided that your enemies can't do soul damage.

Then it struck me that in VRMMORPG novels like Overgeared (a good work getting boring due to Gary Stu) and Mages are too OP (a terrible work that is wish fulfilment due to Gary Stu), when they die, their old bodies either gets Thanos-ed like all who dies in the former's world or they become a prop like the latter's (prop as in the player loses 10% of their EXP and getting the old body back means to regain half of the lost EXP), the players are getting resurrected with the cost being their EXP. This is the same as all VRMMORPGs or even the games in our world (just let me roll with it) with a few points altered to fit the situation.

In Legendary Moonlight Sculptor (& OG etc), players who died need to have cooldown time before they can go back into the game, the EXP and time spent is the cost for instant Clone spell, minus their entire gear go missing with the old body. This fact is impressive.

In Mages too OP, the spatial wizards tried to capture the MC (shit idea you poor fools) in order to gain the players' seemingly unlimited lives and MC is forced to allahu akbar himself instead. They tried to capture his soul for torture but they failed due to game mechanics.

So to me, the player resurrection becomes a powerful Clone spell that:
A. Instantaneously make a body, with most, if not all of the equipment still present.
B. Use up EXP and in Log Horizon case, memories.
C. Provides players with soul protection.

Because I have an idea of a story, something like a Log Horizon event happening but the players no longer has the ability to resurrect and that caused them to get hunted down by the People of the Lands (it is basically Epoch: An NPC’s Tale and I unabashly steal from it) because the Immortals are "monsters". Also, when the players die, their old bodies are still around, so I am stealing from Mages too OP too.

So I wanted to try for a Clone spell as the new mechanic to substitute the resurrection of players and even have the NPCs intentionally hunt for strong players to steal their bodies and torment their souls...

Then I have a question for myself, if the clone spell is present in the game world in the first place, why isn't it use by NPCs? Or better yet, why can't it replace the traditional game resurrection system and remove the whole "EXP loss" problem for players who are rich and don't like to lose their progress?

Just how broken is the Clone spell?

 

[RaidenInfinity]

Why isn't it use by NPCs -> Developer says no.
Why even have EXP loss -> To sell EXP protect cash item.

MMORPGs are business so if you factor in pay-to-win mechanics, suddenly a lot of things make sense. More players = good. More players pay = good. Things that make players not want to play = bad. Heck, in real life MMORPGs, too OP/difficult stuff gets nerfed when enough players whine (imagine like over half of the player base) about it. On the contrary, it feels damn off and unrealistic when fictional games get away with horribly unbalanced stuff without massive controversy and player base exodus.

 

[Kenjona]

Very,
Especially if you clone someone without their knowledge and now have their "body" for all intents and purposes for spell casting on to affect their actual body. Depending on system used, it would make it easier to control them mind body and soul as it were.

Oh and to the above the XP loss originally was not for cash purposes it was to give dying a penalty to players so they would not pull stunts like death teleportation, or massive train pulls by one person in a party to wipe out another to get at a single shot raid.

 

[NonReal]

It's pretty similar to mechanics used in "Game of the World Tree". MC who is sort of an admin has an ability to easily create living bodies but not the souls and consciousness required to power them, so she OBVIOUSLY uses players from earth to move them. Through a synergy of different abilities, she simulates for them a game-like experience.
There are a few reasons stated there why she isn't using locals for that.

1. Players who all think this is only a game are willing to abuse this 'mechanic', and they can have the most gruesome and casual deaths if it meant advancing their goals, and not facing serious consequences for doing so. Whereas locals who knew that they're dying for real would face a powerful emotional trauma and have this innate instinct of protecting their lives instead of being willing to throw it away at a moment's notice, like the players.
2. Souls bind to the bodies over time, and whereas it's possible to sever that connection at higher power levels it still requires a fair amount of effort, doing so for a high number of people would be inefficient in terms of cost/performance.
3. Bodies of all the players are infused with a spell, which is actually pretty common in that setting but allows them to absorb the vitality of defeated opponents and turn them into their own strength. Obviously the EXP. That's actually the main reason the MC is doing the whole game thing because part of that power that players 'harvest' is transferred to her and turned into her own power. That's why she's pretty self-conscious about spending her own power on maintaining mechanics like 'resurrection'. The XP Loss, in this case, is exactly the cost for whatever she needs to do to bring the players to life without using her own hard-earned energy. Whether it's teleporting dead bodies back to her and repairing them; or creating new bodies from zero and giving them previous strength and abilities. She can obviously choose to make 'resurrection cost free or forego her share of power to grand players' additional exp gain, and she sometimes does so if the situation calls for it.
4. Locals that she has available, have cultural problems with violence and such so they wouldn't be as efficient for her goals, as players who think that this is all a game, were pretty much a bunch of psychopaths destroying every obstacle in their wake.

 

[NotaNuffian]

It's pretty similar to mechanics used in "Game of the World Tree". MC who is sort of an admin has an ability to easily create living bodies but not the souls and consciousness required to power them, so she OBVIOUSLY uses players from earth to move them. Through a synergy of different abilities, she simulates for them a game-like experience.
There are a few reasons stated there why she isn't using locals for that.

1. Players who all think this is only a game are willing to abuse this 'mechanic', and they can have the most gruesome and casual deaths if it meant advancing their goals, and not facing serious consequences for doing so. Whereas locals who knew that they're dying for real would face a powerful emotional trauma and have this innate instinct of protecting their lives instead of being willing to throw it away at a moment's notice, like the players.
2. Souls bind to the bodies over time, and whereas it's possible to sever that connection at higher power levels it still requires a fair amount of effort, doing so for a high number of people would be inefficient in terms of cost/performance.
3. Bodies of all the players are infused with a spell, which is actually pretty common in that setting but allows them to absorb the vitality of defeated opponents and turn them into their own strength. Obviously the EXP. That's actually the main reason the MC is doing the whole game thing because part of that power that players 'harvest' is transferred to her and turned into her own power. That's why she's pretty self-conscious about spending her own power on maintaining mechanics like 'resurrection'. The XP Loss, in this case, is exactly the cost for whatever she needs to do to bring the players to life without using her own hard-earned energy. Whether it's teleporting dead bodies back to her and repairing them; or creating new bodies from zero and giving them previous strength and abilities. She can obviously choose to make 'resurrection cost free or forego her share of power to grand players' additional exp gain, and she sometimes does so if the situation calls for it.
4. Locals that she has available, have cultural problems with violence and such so they wouldn't be as efficient for her goals, as players who think that this is all a game, were pretty much a bunch of psychopaths destroying every obstacle in their wake.

Not going through that paywall...
Also, Mother god of tree even though He repeats that He is He, not She.

Still, it is a fun concept to drag a bunch of murderous psychopaths to do your bidding using the net.

Very,
Especially if you clone someone without their knowledge and now have their "body" for all intents and purposes for spell casting on to affect their actual body. Depending on system used, it would make it easier to control them mind body and soul as it were.

Oh and to the above the XP loss originally was not for cash purposes it was to give dying a penalty to players so they would not pull stunts like death teleportation, or massive train pulls by one person in a party to wipe out another to get at a single shot raid.

No... no... no. I am not planning on using the cloned bodies as voodoo doll. But you did help to awaken some ideas.

For the record, player corpses are often purchased by necromancers or sickos, be they NPCs or other players, and used as materials like turn undead. If cloning is available, then one can legit create a clone army featuring the high stats players. Or ffs just use it as a fuck doll or something.

That is the point of the penalty, to prevent/ discourage players from dying. Not only do they lose EXP, but also all the equipment on them plus random items in the inventory. Furthermore, there is a death cooldown to prevent players from rushing back too fast, thus increasing the chance of item loss.

 

[NonReal]

Not going through that paywall...

I assume that you're speaking about Webnovel. I've actually read that novel as an MTL before they tried to translate it manually, so it was a nice surprise when they did, but I haven't tried that version.

Also, Mother god of tree even though He repeats that He is He, not She.

This is pretty funny, because in I think chapter 6 hundred something author addressed this issue in the footnote. This problem is caused by a faulty translation. The World Tree, so MC, is referred to with a word for God, which in China is non-gender specific. It would be closer to 'it' than 'he', or 'she'. Only in English translation do they try and assign it sex so it constantly switches between he or she. Only when MC is in the Eve mode or in any other incarnation do they refer to it as a She.

But that doesn't really matter here. My point is that the book explains pretty well how it uses the local magic system to simulate a VRMMORPG like experience. And gives a believable explanation as to why they're using players instead of NPCs. Cultural, psychological, economic, and many more issues, that simply make it impossible to use locals in a make-shift 'players'.

 

[NotaNuffian]

I assume that you're speaking about Webnovel. I've actually read that novel as an MTL before they tried to translate it manually, so it was a nice surprise when they did, but I haven't tried that version.

This is pretty funny, because in I think chapter 6 hundred something author addressed this issue in the footnote. This problem is caused by a faulty translation. The World Tree, so MC, is referred to with a word for God, which in China is non-gender specific. It would be closer to 'it' than 'he', or 'she'. Only in English translation do they try and assign it sex so it constantly switches between he or she. Only when MC is in the Eve mode or in any other incarnation do they refer to it as a She.

But that doesn't really matter here. My point is that the book explains pretty well how it uses the local magic system to simulate a VRMMORPG like experience. And gives a believable explanation as to why they're using players instead of NPCs. Cultural, psychological, economic, and many more issues, that simply make it impossible to use locals in a make-shift 'players'.

Ok now I found the raw. I hope I don't drop this work out of boredom like the Plague Doctor.

Yeah, as a player, you tend to be more reckless (GTA folks) because you are not in any danger of dying. So players are good shock troopers like Han Xiao in Lengendary Mechanic would say.

 

[ThrillingHuman]

If you could split a soul, and have those pieces placed inside the bodies, that would be even more op.
If I were ever to write a similar setting, I wouldn't prevent the natives (or npc's) from using it, as it could potentially make for more interesting developments
Hell, it would make sense even in a game (not that I play those enough to know), since important npc's wouldn't die, not because they are protected by game design, but because they have clones.
You kill a vital to plot npc? Comes back, with an in-game explanation for why.

 

[NotaNuffian]

If you could split a soul, and have those pieces placed inside the bodies, that would be even more op.
If I were ever to write a similar setting, I wouldn't prevent the natives (or npc's) from using it, as it could potentially make for more interesting developments
Hell, it would make sense even in a game (not that I play those enough to know), since important npc's wouldn't die, not because they are protected by game design, but because they have clones.
You kill a vital to plot npc? Comes back, with an in-game explanation for why.

I can't use the "split soul" thing, because I already gave it to my MC.

And you know what is the most frustrating thing? It is not finding tons of people already done it, it is to read those that has succeed in it. Frustrating yes, but also good point as I can steal some ideas as well. Still frustrating nonetheless.

 

[TheHelpfulFawn]

In DnD 5e narrative, only a wizard that has decades worth of experience and wealth or some sort of prodigy genius can realistically cast the Clone Spell. Then you have to think about the material components needed for the spell to be cast. Some of those components are pretty hard to get (Diamond Worth 1k gold and a vessel worth 2k gold).

In Legendary Moonlight Sculptor (& OG etc), players who died need to have cooldown time before they can go back into the game, the EXP and time spent is the cost for instant Clone spell, minus their entire gear go missing with the old body. This fact is impressive.

Why isn't it use by NPCs -> Developer says no.
Why even have EXP loss -> To sell EXP protect cash item.

MMORPGs are business so if you factor in pay-to-win mechanics, suddenly a lot of things make sense. More players = good. More players pay = good. Things that make players not want to play = bad. Heck, in real life MMORPGs, too OP/difficult stuff gets nerfed when enough players whine (imagine like over half of the player base) about it. On the contrary, it feels damn off and unrealistic when fictional games get away with horribly unbalanced stuff without massive controversy and player base exodus.

In addition to this, I know that in the Manhwa: Skeleton Couldn't Protect the Dungeon, transferring one's soul into a new vessel will result in a net loss. Example: You have 100% of your soul in your original body. Then you die and transfer you soul into a mature clone. After the transference, you only have 85-90% of your soul in the clone body which becomes less and less the more Soul Transferring you do. A hard limit to cloning or body jumping essentially.