Spatial magic, magic system ideas.

[unknownking]

After browsing through different websites, I couldn't find any real space magic system building. I completely understand why most writers classify it as a high ranking magic, and be done with it, but I wanted to try something different. How would it look like if space magic was like any other magic discipline.

I would love to hear your ideas/criticism, or spells I could add to this list.

Before I start, I will add another idea of mine, to prevent everyone from focussing on the same element. Everyone’s mana core has a talent that eases one’s understanding about a certain element by around 10% compared to their peers. Nothing more nothing less.

So lemme introduce you to my ideas, starting with space magic’s limitation.

Limitations:

Harming oneself: Since space magic has high damage output, it also means that it often can be a liability to oneself, meaning, good luck practicing or training such an element without loosing your hand.

Focus: it requires a lot more concentration than other elements while casting, meaning distraction have fatal consequences. Imagine distorting space and loosing your concentration halfway through. You would end up as mincemeat. It is easier to kill a space mage by distracting him than by beating him in a fair fight.

Control: combined with Focus. If anything goes wrong, it goes horrible wrong. A failed group teleportation can mean anything from each getting teleported somewhere else in the world, to everyone turning into mincemeat.

Casting speed: Even though one can improve in this area, the fact that space magic affects the world on the grandest scale means that a simple space spell will always take longer to cast than a fireball.

Long learning process: Not only is it hard to comprehend the theory of it, but since it can kill you. There is no such thing as learning by doing. Of course you can experiment with it at the cost of your fingers. Also good luck finding a space magic teacher, since anyone who is good with it, is probably a big shot and won’t waste their time teaching a mere brat, meaning you will be lacking behind your peers.

All the limitations named earlier, create a clear picture what space magic would be.
A magic discipline not meant for any beginner mage even if they have the talent. It is even worse, it is impractical unless one belongs to the Zenit. Sure Tom. After focussing on a single basic space spell for three month, you can finally use it. However, within that timeframe I’ve learnt five different fire spells. Using your spatial spell in a magic fight should be quite difficult to even utilize it. Sure Tom. I will give you, your ten seconds to cast a space spell and I will definitely won’t bomb you to the ground with hundred fire balls.


As for spells, here are some ideas, I got.
They mostly focus on the following areas: spatial distortion, spartial rearrangement, teleportation, gravity control, sealing.
I see the above mentioned areas as sub fields. They depend more on one’s understanding rather than one’s rank. If your understanding is good enough, you can use/manipulate them to certain degrees. But the more you want to fine tune it, the more energy it will cost.

For example, teleportation. If you want to randomize your end point, you can try using it as a beginner mage. But you will end up somewhere else with a broken mana core because you tried chewing more than you can swallow. Want to specify the area? Sorry bro, but you gotta be at least intermediate rank to achieve a ~100m accuracy if you try to teleport within a 5km area. Also if you fuck up your coordinates, you might end up in outer space.

The same goes for gravity magic. But that might have more use in hand to hand combat. A space beginner mage could adjust gravity in a given area slightly, during the battle. This might throw your enemy of balance, but good luck having such a concentration mid battle + mana reserves, meaning a fireball to your face is even more useful than that.

beginner mage/mage apprentice:

Spatial distortion: destroys anything one’s palm touches, unless the object/person has a certain mana resistance. Basically it distorts space on a small surface area/volume.

Good luck learning that, without distorting your hand/foot and turning it into a bloody mess. Sure it is an insta kill, if you grab someone’s throat or their face, but you have to grab them that is the problem. Before you can even do it, a fire mage will send hell flying to you, and a water mage will create a water ball around your head, so that you are incapable to even finish your spell.

Also the high mana cost makes it even more impractical (it depletes all your mana reserves as a beginner mage/mage apprentice).
It is basically an over glorified one shot attack which one will rarely if not ever use.

Manifestation: The basic idea is to mainfest your element into something useful. Condensing fire, to create a fire sword for example. Since it depends on the mana you pour into, it might as well belong here, even if no beginner mage has the mana capacities to even create a spatial blade, nor the necessary fine tuning.
The likelyhood of it exploding in your face is higher than you achieving it.

intermediate mage:
The good thing starts here. So what do we got?

Short distance teleportation:
So you can teleport in small areas a couple of times and attack from different positions. Sounds cool right?
Well, it isn’t really precise at this level + casting speed is still high, also we won’t even start talking about the mana cost. The only usage it might have, is to teleport your friend with you so he can attack.
Sure Tom. Your friends definitely trust you enough to let them teleport with you, to coordinates you will miss by ten meters in a small area. Also, sure Tom, after casting it once, I will definitely give you four seconds so that you can cast it again. Pinky promise

Spatial gates:
This might be the only thing useful here. The basic idea is to connect to spaces, so whatever enters space a, will always leave space b. It could be used to protect oneself against an attack, or to cut oneself into pieces, if one sticked an arm through and lost concentration. Also it might have it’s usage for intelligence gathering, I guess.

Space mantel
Basically, space around yourself vibrates at all time, meaning any projectile get’s destroyed or cannot touch you. Also whatever you touch, gets distorted. You are finally a spicy kitten Tom. Sure Tom, you’ve become invincible for maybe ten seconds… also if you loose control over it, you will turn into mincemeat.


At this point, I should add, that the spells below are just some concepts I had. I haven't classified the magic ranking further. For example what should be legendary magic, grandmaster magic, and so forth.

advanced mage:
Finally the good good stuff, everyone has been dreaming about
Rapid and accurate short distance teleportation
I’m beginning to fear Tommy.

Spatial area lock
Tommy can now lock you in a space case, and you cannot leave (teleportation from within is useless. Space magic is necessary to calm the space prematurely). Touching the walls might result in amputations. Tommy I’m sorry, could you please let me out. I promise I won’t belittle you any further. (This might work for a few minutes until he runs out of mana)

Cursed spatial area lock
Tommy had enough of you and distorted the space around you to such a degree that it might take centuries for it to calm.

Gravity manipulation
Tommy can now decide if you should kiss the ground or the sky. Whatever he choses, your future does not look great.

Spatial gates, advanced
Tommy now uses spatial gates to attack you. If he wants something from you, he will get it. If he wants your ring, he will get it with your finger.

Spatial area teleportation advanced
The weather is too hot for Tommy to fight. That's why he chose to teleport the entire battlefield somewhere else, causing massive rifts in the progress.


Tldr: space magic is difficult. Whoever gets it, is fucked since it is hard to train, let alone even find a teacher. A space mage is at best a late bloomer and at worst a cripple/dead man. Realistically most space mages wouldn't touch their own element until later in their life. (For example, only after reaching the intermediate rank. might they even entertain the idea of experimenting with beginner space spells, since mana control is the name of the game here.)

I would greatly appreciate if any of you could name me a few other potential beginner space spells that are not too ground breaking.

 

[Viperqwer]

HOWEVER...
Space-mages are dangerous because they use it as a supplementary element.
Those that do succeed find themselves learning all other branches of magic faster and more efficiently.
Imagine a high speed meteor bomber who can trap you and is basically untouchable.

Also, beginner magic spells.
Phase - Move yourself around 1cm from the original location. A weaker version of teleportation, you move yourself short distances to dodge surefire kills.
Connect - By using the many, many, many, nodes that space have, you can attack your enemy from afar. This can be an intermediate spell.
Rift - Condense all your mana and vibrate space in front of you. This is why people don't attack space mages, even beginners since if they use this you have a high chance of dying with them. Assured Mutual Destruction.

 

[Aspic]

The thing is, as much as space magic like that might be difficult, it is as deadly... I mean, scramble the space your enemy is , you get meat paste as a result. No need for subtelty, just linears attack(since, well, its space wich can travel caster than light (and non space mage dont seem to have munch agility/ speed)) and boom, a fuck everything in that general direction attack...

 

[Shyberu]

Spatial magic will likely be only limited to the ultra-rich and talented, who have the resources necessary to buy tutors, medical attention, and artifacts to prevent Insta-kill abilities that spacial magic entails. (Good luck to any peasants lmao)

But I have to add on to what Spatial Magic should be able to accomplish. Spacial magic is scary, but the main part of Spacial magic would be large, AOE abilities that nukes everything without care of who or what. Or at least, the offensive abilities should mainly focus on wide-scale destruction because you are distorting space.

I'll add a bit to the beginner mage and other stuff:

Invisible Hand:
Allows the user to move small objects using nothing but the space around it. Really only limited to anything less than 300-500 grams, and the lighter it is, the faster it gets. Basically, a glorified party trick if you spend half a year mastering it so that casting only takes a few minutes. Not much practicality in combat, since you will be bombed to death by literally any other magic. (Further ranks would be able to sling around rocks, swords, and arrows like nothing at Mach 1)

Collapsed Space:
Allows the user to distort a portion of space so that it reflects light and damage. Cast time is, at the least, 15 minutes for beginners, and if you fuckc up, it collapses upon itself like a black hole, so if Tommy were to stand too close to it, it'll collapse a portion of his body along with it. Really only useful when the 4 cardinal directions (or 3 cardinal and roof) have fortification since it can only manifest as a wall or roofaround a meter in length. Also drains the hell out of your mana, since you are accomplishing something that approaches a black hole/neutron star. (This'll upgrade into your Space mantel)


Intermediate Mage:
This is where I feel their progress will grow exponentially, since, at this point, they will, at the very least, gain an understanding of their element. Now a space mage could choose between 2 options that they would want to specialize in, either the more difficult path of 'Casting', or retire into the more stable path of 'Inscribing'. Either you spend minutes casting space spells at the cost of most of your mana, or you spend days/weeks laying spells and traps that take multiple times your mana. You could learn both, but that's a lot of work. Also unlocks a vital thing that'll almost eliminate one of their greatest weaknesses.

Spatial Storage:
Creates a small 400 x 400-centimeter box (tesseract) out of space, which can store anything inside. Materials? Yep. Mana? Yep. Corpses? Yep. Living things? You bet. Sure it's only 400 x 400 cm, but if your main goal is to kill someone stealthily, just embed that 400x 400 cm box into something like a bag, and catch someone off guard to stuff their head (or a portion of it) in the bag. Then close it, and boom! Dead person! Not useful if your opponent already knows your there. As long as you keep putting mana into the box, you can withdraw it later for use, kinda like a battery. Still doesn't completely solve the concentration issue though, and if you fuck up trying to make a 4D tesseract, your innards will suddenly be outards.

(Trap) Item Rain:
Very situational use, if sprung it teleports specific batches of items (determined beforehand) directly above where the trap was sprung. Good for ambushes, especially if like, a massive army is approaching. (Nullified if they have any mages with barriers.) Or you can make it inverse, teleporting the army to a set location (within a 5km zone error range), or even make it intentionally fail so that their soldiers get teleported inside rocks or trees. Very demoralizing, but takes weeks/months to complete.

Manifestation (Null Orb):
Condenses a portion of space the size of a small orb so that it pulls anything within a meter inwards and crushes it into a ball. It is completely invisible, and anyone who looks directly at it will only see a distorted image of the world behind the orb. It moves slowly, and its invisibility is nullified if it's too close to the ground since the enemies will just see the ground being ripped upward. The most optimal route would be to remote control it into someone from above. Takes a lot of mana and concentration.

Grand Master Magic:
I think Legendary magic should be after Grandmaster, and I skipped advanced magic because yes. Here, a wielder should have little to no issue with quick or dual casting, and anything below Intermediate magic will be easier than thinking. Barely anyone makes it past Advanced magic since, at this point, they are a valuable asset. You either recruit advanced mages or kill them before they become a Grandmaster mage. No compromise, unless you want any of the following abilities below to destroy you and your entire family tree.

Star Fall:
Calls down a meteorite from a lower orbit to utterly destroy your enemies. Best used on stationary targets, like cities, resting armies, or castles. Meteorites will range from 1-5 meters, nothing world-ending, but it sure as hell will end you and your entire extended family if you didn't know he was there beforehand. Takes a shit ton of mana, and its travel time is roughly a day, but with stationary targets, you are guaranteed to hit anyways.

Sky Fall:
Remember Chicken little and how the sky is falling? Well, Tommy decided to make it a reality, and the sky is literally falling. A massive layer of distorted space presses down onto the ground, ripping everything within that range into a flat, bloody pancake. The only counter is if you somehow had a space mage of the equivalent caliber. Or just teleport out, but I'm sure Tommy had already thought of that and sealed the entire area off. It's like a hydraulic press, except you can't escape.

Legendary Magic:
The magnum opus of any Space mage, this is their strongest ability. At this point, their understanding of space is so great, and their control so fine, that almost nothing is out of their reach. Talking shit about Tommy halfway across the world will result in him teleporting to you and teleporting you to enjoy the sights of the world from outer space. Teleportation would be easier than breathing, with no margins of error. Sure, casting still takes at most, a minute or 5, but good luck getting past the Everything Shield™, which renders all attacks useless.

Grand Sky Fall:
Literally, world ending. Calls multiple( 10-100s) meteorites down upon the world, at a target location. Arrives within hours, and each is at minimum, 10 meters in diameter. Good luck if your country offends one, because scorched land is all that awaits your kingdom. Because this thing is so stupidly overpowered, almost no one reaches this rank, or else the world would've ended. (Unless it's a massive world many times larger than Earth).

 

[T.K._Paradox]

After browsing through different websites, I couldn't find any real space magic system building. I completely understand why most writers classify it as a high ranking magic, and be done with it, but I wanted to try something different. How would it look like if space magic was like any other magic discipline.

I would love to hear your ideas/criticism, or spells I could add to this list.

Before I start, I will add another idea of mine, to prevent everyone from focussing on the same element. Everyone’s mana core has a talent that eases one’s understanding about a certain element by around 10% compared to their peers. Nothing more nothing less.

So lemme introduce you to my ideas, starting with space magic’s limitation.

Limitations:

Harming oneself: Since space magic has high damage output, it also means that it often can be a liability to oneself, meaning, good luck practicing or training such an element without loosing your hand.

Focus: it requires a lot more concentration than other elements while casting, meaning distraction have fatal consequences. Imagine distorting space and loosing your concentration halfway through. You would end up as mincemeat. It is easier to kill a space mage by distracting him than by beating him in a fair fight.

Control: combined with Focus. If anything goes wrong, it goes horrible wrong. A failed group teleportation can mean anything from each getting teleported somewhere else in the world, to everyone turning into mincemeat.

Casting speed: Even though one can improve in this area, the fact that space magic affects the world on the grandest scale means that a simple space spell will always take longer to cast than a fireball.

Long learning process: Not only is it hard to comprehend the theory of it, but since it can kill you. There is no such thing as learning by doing. Of course you can experiment with it at the cost of your fingers. Also good luck finding a space magic teacher, since anyone who is good with it, is probably a big shot and won’t waste their time teaching a mere brat, meaning you will be lacking behind your peers.

All the limitations named earlier, create a clear picture what space magic would be.
A magic discipline not meant for any beginner mage even if they have the talent. It is even worse, it is impractical unless one belongs to the Zenit. Sure Tom. After focussing on a single basic space spell for three month, you can finally use it. However, within that timeframe I’ve learnt five different fire spells. Using your spatial spell in a magic fight should be quite difficult to even utilize it. Sure Tom. I will give you, your ten seconds to cast a space spell and I will definitely won’t bomb you to the ground with hundred fire balls.


As for spells, here are some ideas, I got.
They mostly focus on the following areas: spatial distortion, spartial rearrangement, teleportation, gravity control, sealing.
I see the above mentioned areas as sub fields. They depend more on one’s understanding rather than one’s rank. If your understanding is good enough, you can use/manipulate them to certain degrees. But the more you want to fine tune it, the more energy it will cost.

For example, teleportation. If you want to randomize your end point, you can try using it as a beginner mage. But you will end up somewhere else with a broken mana core because you tried chewing more than you can swallow. Want to specify the area? Sorry bro, but you gotta be at least intermediate rank to achieve a ~100m accuracy if you try to teleport within a 5km area. Also if you fuck up your coordinates, you might end up in outer space.

The same goes for gravity magic. But that might have more use in hand to hand combat. A space beginner mage could adjust gravity in a given area slightly, during the battle. This might throw your enemy of balance, but good luck having such a concentration mid battle + mana reserves, meaning a fireball to your face is even more useful than that.

beginner mage/mage apprentice:

Spatial distortion: destroys anything one’s palm touches, unless the object/person has a certain mana resistance. Basically it distorts space on a small surface area/volume.

Good luck learning that, without distorting your hand/foot and turning it into a bloody mess. Sure it is an insta kill, if you grab someone’s throat or their face, but you have to grab them that is the problem. Before you can even do it, a fire mage will send hell flying to you, and a water mage will create a water ball around your head, so that you are incapable to even finish your spell.

Also the high mana cost makes it even more impractical (it depletes all your mana reserves as a beginner mage/mage apprentice).
It is basically an over glorified one shot attack which one will rarely if not ever use.

Manifestation: The basic idea is to mainfest your element into something useful. Condensing fire, to create a fire sword for example. Since it depends on the mana you pour into, it might as well belong here, even if no beginner mage has the mana capacities to even create a spatial blade, nor the necessary fine tuning.
The likelyhood of it exploding in your face is higher than you achieving it.

intermediate mage:
The good thing starts here. So what do we got?

Short distance teleportation:
So you can teleport in small areas a couple of times and attack from different positions. Sounds cool right?
Well, it isn’t really precise at this level + casting speed is still high, also we won’t even start talking about the mana cost. The only usage it might have, is to teleport your friend with you so he can attack.
Sure Tom. Your friends definitely trust you enough to let them teleport with you, to coordinates you will miss by ten meters in a small area. Also, sure Tom, after casting it once, I will definitely give you four seconds so that you can cast it again. Pinky promise

Spatial gates:
This might be the only thing useful here. The basic idea is to connect to spaces, so whatever enters space a, will always leave space b. It could be used to protect oneself against an attack, or to cut oneself into pieces, if one sticked an arm through and lost concentration. Also it might have it’s usage for intelligence gathering, I guess.

Space mantel
Basically, space around yourself vibrates at all time, meaning any projectile get’s destroyed or cannot touch you. Also whatever you touch, gets distorted. You are finally a spicy kitten Tom. Sure Tom, you’ve become invincible for maybe ten seconds… also if you loose control over it, you will turn into mincemeat.


At this point, I should add, that the spells below are just some concepts I had. I haven't classified the magic ranking further. For example what should be legendary magic, grandmaster magic, and so forth.

advanced mage:
Finally the good good stuff, everyone has been dreaming about
Rapid and accurate short distance teleportation
I’m beginning to fear Tommy.

Spatial area lock
Tommy can now lock you in a space case, and you cannot leave (teleportation from within is useless. Space magic is necessary to calm the space prematurely). Touching the walls might result in amputations. Tommy I’m sorry, could you please let me out. I promise I won’t belittle you any further. (This might work for a few minutes until he runs out of mana)

Cursed spatial area lock
Tommy had enough of you and distorted the space around you to such a degree that it might take centuries for it to calm.

Gravity manipulation
Tommy can now decide if you should kiss the ground or the sky. Whatever he choses, your future does not look great.

Spatial gates, advanced
Tommy now uses spatial gates to attack you. If he wants something from you, he will get it. If he wants your ring, he will get it with your finger.

Spatial area teleportation advanced
The weather is too hot for Tommy to fight. That's why he chose to teleport the entire battlefield somewhere else, causing massive rifts in the progress.


Tldr: space magic is difficult. Whoever gets it, is fucked since it is hard to train, let alone even find a teacher. A space mage is at best a late bloomer and at worst a cripple/dead man. Realistically most space mages wouldn't touch their own element until later in their life. (For example, only after reaching the intermediate rank. might they even entertain the idea of experimenting with beginner space spells, since mana control is the name of the game here.)

I would greatly appreciate if any of you could name me a few other potential beginner space spells that are not too ground breaking.

I always like applying practical physics to magic it makes things way more dangerous and fun.

Given the fact legitimate teleportation would cause a large displacement of the air -- because you are now suddenly occupying its space -- and would cause an explosion.

Space to me is best imagined as a piece of paper, you can fold it, rip it, crumble it up, warp it and modify it with the correct tools.

Some examples for your beginner spells would probably be displacement, distance manipulation, and size manipulation.

When you displace an object you'd basically be folding space to get the object to the desired area. This could be applied to get a apple out of a tree or cutting someone by displacing the cut.

Size manipulation would basically condense the mass of an object down or enlarging it. You could later increase or decrease the weight when you start dipping in the gravity element of space.

And distance would basically be an opposite effect of displacement. Instead of folding the space you are stretching it out or causing things to remain static in space. It could be used to basically 'rubber band' yourself from place to place I.e. when lag catches up in a video game and it seems like they are moving a million miles per hour. Or it could 'freeze' objects in place regardless of their momentum.

Obviously this is very broken, so balancing would have to come into play, but the would lie to you the author to figure out.

 

[melchi]

Have you read paranoid mage? The MC is a spacial mage and I think the author does a good job with what he can and can't do.

 

[LilRora]

Right now I'm merely borrowing an idea from Bioshifter, but something like spatial blade (named Spacial Rend in Bioshifter) would be really nice. It would basically cut anything that's not protected from space magic. Though it's hard to imagine how it would work physically.

Another similar idea, this time my own, is something I'd call spatial severance, which is basically about separating space along a 2d plane without distorting it, effectively splitting anything on the border in two.

The problem is that both would fall at the very least into higher end of intermediate magic, but more likely well into advanced magic (especially the latter) and they don't exactly fit into the categories you've mentioned.

One spell that fits better is something inspired by Baron Violence, namely eye-popping, achieved by compressing(?) a very small space to a great degree, causing whatever it is in the space you're affecting to collapse on itself. If you take gravity magic as tilting the space-time, then this would be greatly tilting space-time in a small spherical shape (which would reduce the mana cost massively, but increase the required degree of control by the same amount, likely making it very impractical, even more so for beginners).

As for the more boring ideas, you can definitely do a wave of distorted space, working essentially in the same way as your spatial distortion, but at range.
This idea has a practical problem, because as you might know gravitational waves contain absolutely massive amount of energy while not doing basically anything; what I'm talking about here is more about shaping the distortion in a certain way that would carry it away from the caster in a similar way to what happens in Conaway's game of life. As for how, that's not something I considered.

Also, if we're speaking about waves, you can do communication via spatial magic, though it's definitely not something for a beginner to try.

The communication would probably be done by a spatial rope/cord/however you call it, which is also an idea worth considering. In more general terms, it would mean compressing space and doing something to it to stay in shape; you could also extend this idea to spatial knots, which would basically be space twisted in a way it would be unable to untwist by itself and would likely function either as a trap or some sort of barrier.

 

[StrongArm]

in the wheel of time series (the books, not the god awful show) the space magic used is dangerous. The portals the mage characters make cut through space, if you accidentally touch the edge, it will cut right through you like a hot knife through butter.

While you are travelling through time and space, if you lose focus you will die. you will fall for an eternity through nothingness until you starve to death. And then your corpse will continue falling.

 

[unknownking]

Have you read paranoid mage? The MC is a spacial mage and I think the author does a good job with what he can and can't do.

thanks for the recomendation. I will be giving it a try.^^

One spell that fits better is something inspired by Baron Violence, namely eye-popping, achieved by compressing(?) a very small space to a great degree, causing whatever it is in the space you're affecting to collapse on itself. If you take gravity magic as tilting the space-time, then this would be greatly tilting space-time in a small spherical shape (which would reduce the mana cost massively, but increase the required degree of control by the same amount, likely making it very impractical, even more so for beginners).

The eyepopping spell is quite an interesting idea, I will probably "borrow." Even though it is kinda impractical like you stated earlier for beginner mages and requires a high control of mana, it could be utilized as a "training spell," to increase one's mana/space control. The fact that it is envelops quite a small volume combined with the lower energy usage compared to my beginner spell, makes it quite an ideal candidate. Especially since it should be way less deadly to oneself compared to my idea.

As for spatial blade and spatial wave, they would at least be intermediate spell. They could even be the same spell, with the only difference being the area of effect. For example, spatial blade focuses more on a small area while spatial wave, is the same spell, that went haywire after reaching a certain distance. For example the mage is no longer in control of the space that is shooting, resulting in it "spreading." This would increase the area of effect at the cost of "potency."

You might get cuts instead of an amputation.

Also, if we're speaking about waves, you can do communication via spatial magic, though it's definitely not something for a beginner to try.

The communication aspect is indeed an interesting topic. The problem I'm having would be, where does space magic stop, and "wind magic" begins, for example.

But space magic would probably be the fastest method of sending "secure" messages, via spatial gates.

Spatial twisting sounds like a great idea. Thanks

 

[melchi]

I would say there has to be some kind of practical limitations though. Otherwise someone could pull a chell from portal 2 and use a portal gun to connect to connect earth to the moon and vent everything into space.

For example, a portal that can only transport 3 people before it runs out of juice. Weird sanity physics breaking stuff like the pressure won't try to equalize on either side of portal can make life easier. In paranoid mage, one can't do direct damage with spacial magic. Using spacial magic to move very fast doesn't get momentum so if it runs into something then it just stops. Also, using spacial magic to rend someone is not possible because mixing mana repels the different types.

There is one character in death march(or maybe it is another LN, I could be getting them mixed up) that can tear out people's hearts. She stomps on the ground and her clawed foot comes up with a heart in it. Broken powerful right? However, she has to line up the shot do do it right. Her target has to be stationary for a couple seconds to pull it off.

Anyway, just to say trying to put some boundaries so it isn't completely OP is important.

 

[unknownking]

I would say there has to be some kind of practical limitations though. Otherwise someone could pull a chell from portal 2 and use a portal gun to connect to connect earth to the moon and vent everything into space.

For example, a portal that can only transport 3 people before it runs out of juice. Weird sanity physics breaking stuff like the pressure won't try to equalize on either side of portal can make life easier. In paranoid mage, one can't do direct damage with spacial magic. Using spacial magic to move very fast doesn't get momentum so if it runs into something then it just stops. Also, using spacial magic to rend someone is not possible because mixing mana repels the different types.

There is one character in death march(or maybe it is another LN, I could be getting them mixed up) that can tear out people's hearts. She stomps on the ground and her clawed foot comes up with a heart in it. Broken powerful right? However, she has to line up the shot do do it right. Her target has to be stationary for a couple seconds to pull it off.

Anyway, just to say trying to put some boundaries so it isn't completely OP is important.

Well, the limitation I had in mind would be that they close abruptly the moment you stop the mana flow to it. Also, whenever something passes through it, mana gets consumed. The farther the two portals are from each other, the less stable and more energy intensive they become.

If these limitations are not enough, one could also add the condition that each portal must be controlled/powered by a space mage. These two now need to find each others perfect coordinates to operate a "gate."

 

[ThrillingHuman]

Well, why must it be used for combat?

All the limitations named earlier, create a clear picture what space magic would be.
A magic discipline not meant for any beginner mage even if they have the talent. It is even worse, it is impractical unless one belongs to the Zenit. Sure Tom. After focussing on a single basic space spell for three month, you can finally use it. However, within that timeframe I’ve learnt five different fire spells. Using your spatial spell in a magic fight should be quite difficult to even utilize it. Sure Tom. I will give you, your ten seconds to cast a space spell and I will definitely won’t bomb you to the ground with hundred fire balls.

Maybe it just shouldn't be used for combat. Sure Jeff, you can bomb me with a hundred fireballs if you want but it will be treason since despite me knowing only how to use a super tiny space blade with a 30% chance of me slicing my head off if I do it raw, my value is of national importance since I am leading the (outer) space exploration research team. Why do you even want to bomb me? I haven't done anything to you you sicko.

As for spells, here are some ideas, I got.
They mostly focus on the following areas: spatial distortion, spartial rearrangement, teleportation, gravity control, sealing.

I like how you put hard limitations (I hope) on what magic can do

Spatial distortion: destroys anything one’s palm touches, unless the object/person has a certain mana resistance. Basically it distorts space on a small surface area/volume.

Manifestation: The basic idea is to mainfest your element into something useful. Condensing fire, to create a fire sword for example. Since it depends on the mana you pour into, it might as well belong here, even if no beginner mage has the mana capacities to even create a spatial blade, nor the necessary fine tuning

That's like, super useful. I could make a nuclear bomb with it. If a state doesn't grab a young space mage with a tight lock then it is run by idiots. So many potential applications for high-difficulty manufacturing.

The rest

is kind of unecessary. I feel like being able to distort space and create space constucts is OP enough and further down should be just refining those techniques.
A highly unstable blade of space that you have to use a specialised staff made out of wyvern testicles to barely control to a super precise blade that can cut with nanometer precision. Or even a space wall that can completely isolate an area from anything.
A distortion that destroys everything in an area to a precise space bridge that shrinks space, or elongates it. Or stabilises a point.

TLDR: space mages too OP need nerf and get kicked out of fighting area. Let them be crafters and scientists. The people who will take fantasy land to conquer space! Have them need high-precision equipment, formations and rituals to make their magic work, so that the first space mage ever to not die by accident doesn't cause 10 industrial revolutions and space magic becomes a super important, super costly and super niche discipline useless in direct combat but irreplaceable for a country ever wanting to become a global superpower.

If a high-level fire mage is a renewlable eco-friendly nuclear bomb, then a high-level space mage will be a supercomputer cluster that will build you ten spaceships if you give them the necessary materials + infrastructure.
Even, make it so space mages just don't have a high level. They have to learn tonnes of auxiliry techniques and very complicated theories instead, creating new techniques and applications for manufacturing and engineering. So they are very scholarly but can't use their magic directly. And can only ever use 2 techniques from their magic tree. Or rather their magic tree only having 2 techniques. That one has to use many auxiliry techniques from common magic tree to even use effectively and safely.

 

[Chaos_Sinner777]

No time to get into full detail now, but one of my important points is to imagine a 3D grid pattern and focus on affecting the pattern to cause changes to space. Shrink a section of implemented grid, shrink the space within. Cut the grid lines, cut everything within the severed section, probably a durability negation attack. Move one piece of grid to another grid area, transport everything within to the new location. The main limitations I had in mind for the character using that, are HUGE mana costs, and a need to establish the grid well ahead of time. The fact that mana stored within the grid doesn't degrade is basically the only reason it'd be usable at all. But, you'd be basically a god within your established territory.

 

[melchi]

I would agree with @TrashyHuman trying to make spacial magic too general and applicable in everything waters down the theme of the power. Stuff like condensing fire to create a fire sword. Readers would expect that stuff to be in the realm of a fire mage. One could say a fire mage could create a better fire sword but still as a reader I'd rather there be clear boundaries between what fire powers and spacial powers can do. Intuitive is best!

One of the best points of paranoid mage is that the MC can't beat anyone in a stand up slugfest. A MC who has already lost if he or she gets put into a traditional fight is more interesting than one who can just power through anything no matter the odds. The strength of a spacial mage is that there is no safe distance from them. Traps and surprises should be their strength not raw power.

 

[Jemini]

I've put a little thought into this area as well, and used a little bit of layman's knowledge of Einstein's theory of space-time as my guide for the mechanics. As such, I have it as a 3rd tier magic system in a progression of Earth magic ---> Gravity magic ---> Space-time magic. You've gotta go through that progression in order to be able to utilize it. Also, there is no isolated "space magic" and "time magic." Both space and time are a single discipline

Using the space-time fabric model, it allows for some more concrete effects that I don't often see in other magic systems that just go all "Yeah, teleportation, because it's handy and cool."

Examples of space magic effects would include...

-Bending/folding the fabric of space-time
-Stretching space
-Compressing space
-Time manipulation (faster/slower)
-Time-space phasing (ability to pass through the fabric of space time)
-Ripping space-time
-Fusing space-time

These 7 abilities are the core abilities of space-time manipulation. These can be used in combination with various space-time sensing abilities and each other to produce various effects.

Space-time phasing can be used to teleport to another location simply by walking in 4 dimensions instead of 3. However, you cannot control your destination with this, and need to combine the effect with bending/folding space-time and also using your spacial senses in order to control your teleportation destination.

Stretching and compressing space-time can be used in combination to create an effect similar to warp as discussed in sci-fi stories, except on a personal scale, allowing you to move faster or even fly by manipulating space.

Ripping and fusing space-time can be used to create the "gate" spell, a sort of stable worm-hole. Combining this with bending space-time and spatial senses can allow you to control where the other end of the gate will be.

Another label of a space-time magic user's skill that would limit the effectiveness of this magic would probably be how much they can minimize the stress of the magic on the target, since it involves utilizing gravity magic as a medium and greatly increasing gravity on the target. Being able to isolate that effect to the space itself somehow in order to avoid destroying the subject of the spell would take some doing.

EDIT: one interesting thing with this system that considers what IRL science has to say about space-time is that this shows that the "gate" spell and a "4D walk" effect should both be easier effects to use than actually teleporting a stationary object from one location to another, as that would probably require the use of the "warp" spell in combination with the 4D walk spell. So, it's not just using the 7 basic abilities, it's also using 2 actual spell effects together in order to produce the effect. That said, while it's probably a higher skill level, it's likely safer than creating a "gate."

(Yeah, my preference is to go pseudo sci-fi with my magic systems, making it a SUPER hard magic system in terms of the precise details and limitations of the magic.)

 

[unknownking]

Spatial magic will likely be only limited to the ultra-rich and talented, who have the resources necessary to buy tutors, medical attention, and artifacts to prevent Insta-kill abilities that spacial magic entails. (Good luck to any peasants lmao)

But I have to add on to what Spatial Magic should be able to accomplish. Spacial magic is scary, but the main part of Spacial magic would be large, AOE abilities that nukes everything without care of who or what. Or at least, the offensive abilities should mainly focus on wide-scale destruction because you are distorting space.

I'll add a bit to the beginner mage and other stuff:

Invisible Hand:
Allows the user to move small objects using nothing but the space around it. Really only limited to anything less than 300-500 grams, and the lighter it is, the faster it gets. Basically, a glorified party trick if you spend half a year mastering it so that casting only takes a few minutes. Not much practicality in combat, since you will be bombed to death by literally any other magic. (Further ranks would be able to sling around rocks, swords, and arrows like nothing at Mach 1)

Collapsed Space:
Allows the user to distort a portion of space so that it reflects light and damage. Cast time is, at the least, 15 minutes for beginners, and if you fuckc up, it collapses upon itself like a black hole, so if Tommy were to stand too close to it, it'll collapse a portion of his body along with it. Really only useful when the 4 cardinal directions (or 3 cardinal and roof) have fortification since it can only manifest as a wall or roofaround a meter in length. Also drains the hell out of your mana, since you are accomplishing something that approaches a black hole/neutron star. (This'll upgrade into your Space mantel)


Intermediate Mage:
This is where I feel their progress will grow exponentially, since, at this point, they will, at the very least, gain an understanding of their element. Now a space mage could choose between 2 options that they would want to specialize in, either the more difficult path of 'Casting', or retire into the more stable path of 'Inscribing'. Either you spend minutes casting space spells at the cost of most of your mana, or you spend days/weeks laying spells and traps that take multiple times your mana. You could learn both, but that's a lot of work. Also unlocks a vital thing that'll almost eliminate one of their greatest weaknesses.

Spatial Storage:
Creates a small 400 x 400-centimeter box (tesseract) out of space, which can store anything inside. Materials? Yep. Mana? Yep. Corpses? Yep. Living things? You bet. Sure it's only 400 x 400 cm, but if your main goal is to kill someone stealthily, just embed that 400x 400 cm box into something like a bag, and catch someone off guard to stuff their head (or a portion of it) in the bag. Then close it, and boom! Dead person! Not useful if your opponent already knows your there. As long as you keep putting mana into the box, you can withdraw it later for use, kinda like a battery. Still doesn't completely solve the concentration issue though, and if you fuck up trying to make a 4D tesseract, your innards will suddenly be outards.

(Trap) Item Rain:
Very situational use, if sprung it teleports specific batches of items (determined beforehand) directly above where the trap was sprung. Good for ambushes, especially if like, a massive army is approaching. (Nullified if they have any mages with barriers.) Or you can make it inverse, teleporting the army to a set location (within a 5km zone error range), or even make it intentionally fail so that their soldiers get teleported inside rocks or trees. Very demoralizing, but takes weeks/months to complete.

Manifestation (Null Orb):
Condenses a portion of space the size of a small orb so that it pulls anything within a meter inwards and crushes it into a ball. It is completely invisible, and anyone who looks directly at it will only see a distorted image of the world behind the orb. It moves slowly, and its invisibility is nullified if it's too close to the ground since the enemies will just see the ground being ripped upward. The most optimal route would be to remote control it into someone from above. Takes a lot of mana and concentration.

Grand Master Magic:
I think Legendary magic should be after Grandmaster, and I skipped advanced magic because yes. Here, a wielder should have little to no issue with quick or dual casting, and anything below Intermediate magic will be easier than thinking. Barely anyone makes it past Advanced magic since, at this point, they are a valuable asset. You either recruit advanced mages or kill them before they become a Grandmaster mage. No compromise, unless you want any of the following abilities below to destroy you and your entire family tree.

Star Fall:
Calls down a meteorite from a lower orbit to utterly destroy your enemies. Best used on stationary targets, like cities, resting armies, or castles. Meteorites will range from 1-5 meters, nothing world-ending, but it sure as hell will end you and your entire extended family if you didn't know he was there beforehand. Takes a shit ton of mana, and its travel time is roughly a day, but with stationary targets, you are guaranteed to hit anyways.

Sky Fall:
Remember Chicken little and how the sky is falling? Well, Tommy decided to make it a reality, and the sky is literally falling. A massive layer of distorted space presses down onto the ground, ripping everything within that range into a flat, bloody pancake. The only counter is if you somehow had a space mage of the equivalent caliber. Or just teleport out, but I'm sure Tommy had already thought of that and sealed the entire area off. It's like a hydraulic press, except you can't escape.

Legendary Magic:
The magnum opus of any Space mage, this is their strongest ability. At this point, their understanding of space is so great, and their control so fine, that almost nothing is out of their reach. Talking shit about Tommy halfway across the world will result in him teleporting to you and teleporting you to enjoy the sights of the world from outer space. Teleportation would be easier than breathing, with no margins of error. Sure, casting still takes at most, a minute or 5, but good luck getting past the Everything Shield™, which renders all attacks useless.

Grand Sky Fall:
Literally, world ending. Calls multiple( 10-100s) meteorites down upon the world, at a target location. Arrives within hours, and each is at minimum, 10 meters in diameter. Good luck if your country offends one, because scorched land is all that awaits your kingdom. Because this thing is so stupidly overpowered, almost no one reaches this rank, or else the world would've ended. (Unless it's a massive world many times larger than Earth).

thanks for your comment. It opened my eyes as to what should be possible.
I believe that space mages would rather be the "toys/trophies" of the ultra rich, in the sense that they will recruit you/fight each other to get you. Whatever you like it or naht, you will be theirs, or dead. There is no such thing of being an independent space mage, except after fullfiling a 50 year long servitude.


Another idea I had in mind was: the stronger a space mage gets, the more it focusses on how to mess with other space mages, to prevent assassinations and so forth.

One idea I had was the following:

since every space mage is way to used to the standard conditions: g being 9.81 m/s^2, why not add another pulling force surrounding you, that would mess up with any teleportation using the standard formula.

For example, why not carry a freaking meteorite inside your pocket dimension, to whose pull you are accustomed to. The moment a space mage would come into your orbit of influence, it would be their death sentence if they are way too accustomed to standard conditions. Since now they have to adapt. Instant teleportation become inaccurate and so forth.

 

[LilRora]

Also, whenever something passes through it, mana gets consumed.

Remember 'bout air. I'm always annoyed by completely illogical magic thingies that are alright if you squint real hard, but stop making sense in at least three different ways when you start thinking about it on the level of average inexperienced high school graduate.

One example I remember really pissed me off was that in some chinese novel all a skill named gravity manipulation did was amplifying natural gravity with a cost scaling linearly with amplification, and with a hard cap on the amplification depending on skill level - it's kinda logical on a very simple level, but becomes idiotic once you learn anything about space-time and general relativity.

Back to portals, even if maintaining the portal itself costs nothing (which, logically, should only be possible if you anchor it somewhere so the space doesn't collapse on itself, quite like when you're putting a balloon onto a plastic bottle and the gum refuses to stay stretched until you pull it all over the thing), the portals shouldn't be as selective as to allow only tangible objects through - hence air passing through would introduce passive mana consumption unless the portal was sealed.

My advice is to (when possible) think scientifically while keeping the magic in the back of your mind, because that will greatly reduce the number of potential logical mistakes. Plus make your magic more grounded.


Also, an amazing idea that's applied in The Reincarnation of Alysara as well as slightly differently in Bioshifter is being able to cross into different spatial planes in the fourth dimension, or simply into fourth dimension depending on interpretation. It's a very wide concept I'm too tired to explain now, but to show simply what it is, if you imagine our space-time as a 2d plane, it means moving in the z axis. You can use it in a myriad of ways, from storage space and bypassing physical obstacles, through summoning magic all the way to alternate or parallel worlds and all that comes with them.

For example, why not carry a freaking meteorite inside your pocket dimension, to whose pull you are accustomed to. The moment a space mage would come into your orbit of influence, it would be their death sentence if they are way too accustomed to standard conditions. Since now they have to adapt. Instant teleportation become inaccurate and so forth.

That's an interesting idea, though I think its execution would be a tad impossible.

A similar idea would be to introduce harmless harmonic vibrations in space all around you, small enough to be unnoticeable visually but strong enough to mess up all calculations. I'm not sure if it matches your setting and how space magic works tho.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

Use hero system or mage: the ascension. I find them the most balanced for spacial magic. Look up correspondence sphere. Although Amber was good. Pattern vrs logos.

 

[FoxxieFox]

There could also be a perception based spell, Spacial Sense for a beginner spell. It allows you basic awareness of the space around you for use in additional magics or basic movement. The detail and range increase with proficiency. It also helps to relieve some of the concerns with damaging yourself, allowing for more easy short-term teleportation and manipulation of space.

 

[FaustVoncleave]

After browsing through different websites, I couldn't find any real space magic system building. I completely understand why most writers classify it as a high ranking magic, and be done with it, but I wanted to try something different. How would it look like if space magic was like any other magic discipline.

I would love to hear your ideas/criticism, or spells I could add to this list.

Before I start, I will add another idea of mine, to prevent everyone from focussing on the same element. Everyone’s mana core has a talent that eases one’s understanding about a certain element by around 10% compared to their peers. Nothing more nothing less.

So lemme introduce you to my ideas, starting with space magic’s limitation.

Limitations:

Harming oneself: Since space magic has high damage output, it also means that it often can be a liability to oneself, meaning, good luck practicing or training such an element without loosing your hand.

Focus: it requires a lot more concentration than other elements while casting, meaning distraction have fatal consequences. Imagine distorting space and loosing your concentration halfway through. You would end up as mincemeat. It is easier to kill a space mage by distracting him than by beating him in a fair fight.

Control: combined with Focus. If anything goes wrong, it goes horrible wrong. A failed group teleportation can mean anything from each getting teleported somewhere else in the world, to everyone turning into mincemeat.

Casting speed: Even though one can improve in this area, the fact that space magic affects the world on the grandest scale means that a simple space spell will always take longer to cast than a fireball.

Long learning process: Not only is it hard to comprehend the theory of it, but since it can kill you. There is no such thing as learning by doing. Of course you can experiment with it at the cost of your fingers. Also good luck finding a space magic teacher, since anyone who is good with it, is probably a big shot and won’t waste their time teaching a mere brat, meaning you will be lacking behind your peers.

All the limitations named earlier, create a clear picture what space magic would be.
A magic discipline not meant for any beginner mage even if they have the talent. It is even worse, it is impractical unless one belongs to the Zenit. Sure Tom. After focussing on a single basic space spell for three month, you can finally use it. However, within that timeframe I’ve learnt five different fire spells. Using your spatial spell in a magic fight should be quite difficult to even utilize it. Sure Tom. I will give you, your ten seconds to cast a space spell and I will definitely won’t bomb you to the ground with hundred fire balls.


As for spells, here are some ideas, I got.
They mostly focus on the following areas: spatial distortion, spartial rearrangement, teleportation, gravity control, sealing.
I see the above mentioned areas as sub fields. They depend more on one’s understanding rather than one’s rank. If your understanding is good enough, you can use/manipulate them to certain degrees. But the more you want to fine tune it, the more energy it will cost.

For example, teleportation. If you want to randomize your end point, you can try using it as a beginner mage. But you will end up somewhere else with a broken mana core because you tried chewing more than you can swallow. Want to specify the area? Sorry bro, but you gotta be at least intermediate rank to achieve a ~100m accuracy if you try to teleport within a 5km area. Also if you fuck up your coordinates, you might end up in outer space.

The same goes for gravity magic. But that might have more use in hand to hand combat. A space beginner mage could adjust gravity in a given area slightly, during the battle. This might throw your enemy of balance, but good luck having such a concentration mid battle + mana reserves, meaning a fireball to your face is even more useful than that.

beginner mage/mage apprentice:

Spatial distortion: destroys anything one’s palm touches, unless the object/person has a certain mana resistance. Basically it distorts space on a small surface area/volume.

Good luck learning that, without distorting your hand/foot and turning it into a bloody mess. Sure it is an insta kill, if you grab someone’s throat or their face, but you have to grab them that is the problem. Before you can even do it, a fire mage will send hell flying to you, and a water mage will create a water ball around your head, so that you are incapable to even finish your spell.

Also the high mana cost makes it even more impractical (it depletes all your mana reserves as a beginner mage/mage apprentice).
It is basically an over glorified one shot attack which one will rarely if not ever use.

Manifestation: The basic idea is to mainfest your element into something useful. Condensing fire, to create a fire sword for example. Since it depends on the mana you pour into, it might as well belong here, even if no beginner mage has the mana capacities to even create a spatial blade, nor the necessary fine tuning.
The likelyhood of it exploding in your face is higher than you achieving it.

intermediate mage:
The good thing starts here. So what do we got?

Short distance teleportation:
So you can teleport in small areas a couple of times and attack from different positions. Sounds cool right?
Well, it isn’t really precise at this level + casting speed is still high, also we won’t even start talking about the mana cost. The only usage it might have, is to teleport your friend with you so he can attack.
Sure Tom. Your friends definitely trust you enough to let them teleport with you, to coordinates you will miss by ten meters in a small area. Also, sure Tom, after casting it once, I will definitely give you four seconds so that you can cast it again. Pinky promise

Spatial gates:
This might be the only thing useful here. The basic idea is to connect to spaces, so whatever enters space a, will always leave space b. It could be used to protect oneself against an attack, or to cut oneself into pieces, if one sticked an arm through and lost concentration. Also it might have it’s usage for intelligence gathering, I guess.

Space mantel
Basically, space around yourself vibrates at all time, meaning any projectile get’s destroyed or cannot touch you. Also whatever you touch, gets distorted. You are finally a spicy kitten Tom. Sure Tom, you’ve become invincible for maybe ten seconds… also if you loose control over it, you will turn into mincemeat.


At this point, I should add, that the spells below are just some concepts I had. I haven't classified the magic ranking further. For example what should be legendary magic, grandmaster magic, and so forth.

advanced mage:
Finally the good good stuff, everyone has been dreaming about
Rapid and accurate short distance teleportation
I’m beginning to fear Tommy.

Spatial area lock
Tommy can now lock you in a space case, and you cannot leave (teleportation from within is useless. Space magic is necessary to calm the space prematurely). Touching the walls might result in amputations. Tommy I’m sorry, could you please let me out. I promise I won’t belittle you any further. (This might work for a few minutes until he runs out of mana)

Cursed spatial area lock
Tommy had enough of you and distorted the space around you to such a degree that it might take centuries for it to calm.

Gravity manipulation
Tommy can now decide if you should kiss the ground or the sky. Whatever he choses, your future does not look great.

Spatial gates, advanced
Tommy now uses spatial gates to attack you. If he wants something from you, he will get it. If he wants your ring, he will get it with your finger.

Spatial area teleportation advanced
The weather is too hot for Tommy to fight. That's why he chose to teleport the entire battlefield somewhere else, causing massive rifts in the progress.


Tldr: space magic is difficult. Whoever gets it, is fucked since it is hard to train, let alone even find a teacher. A space mage is at best a late bloomer and at worst a cripple/dead man. Realistically most space mages wouldn't touch their own element until later in their life. (For example, only after reaching the intermediate rank. might they even entertain the idea of experimenting with beginner space spells, since mana control is the name of the game here.)

I would greatly appreciate if any of you could name me a few other potential beginner space spells that are not too ground breaking.

Best Beginner spell I can think of(that's not busted) is spatial designation. It's pretty much a kiddy version of area lock, you designate an area and form a spatial border around it. It's not impenetrable like area lock, but what passes by the boundary gets slowed down as it's like passing through jelly. The advantages are that it slows down projectiles, or can temporarily have someone stuck for a short while. It also doesn't risk deadly injury from messing it up, the boundary will just either not form or have holes in it, so it gives something for beginners to practice their mana control without fear for their life, and they can actually get a shot at joining a party for adventuring as a control mage. Disadvantages are the usual space magic stuff, it's difficult without practice and can take time if you haven't already mentally designated the area. Because of this, imperfect designations are the norm, and some smart mages have made a habit of forming a line designation instead of a full area, making it more like a jelly wall. It can also be the building block of future spells, like spatial gates can be reliant on designating two areas, an item box ability could be added to intermediate based on it, and area lock/cursed is obvious.

This all said, I think the ridiculous requirements to even start learning space magic here will always keep it high end. I can't see a clever farm lad who gets the attribute not killing themselves, and that's poor design imo. If you want it to feel normalized then lower the requirements, have most of the abilities in the beginner section be safe control type skills and only add the more dangerous damage skills at the intermediate level.