TLDR : Chinese golden sentence :
Villains live long while good people die fast
Hrmmm.... Interesting.
Man this entire thread is depressing as fuck
dunno how to actually help you. I just kinda write what I know yknow
The purpose of writing, at least for me, is to push myself into uncomfortable places. I can't grow if I don't know my limitations.
I also do not see a purpose for sugar coating the situation. It is not a plea for help. it is an admission of my limitations. I have been stuck for a week now and unable to really progress the story because everything I write is shit. The advice I get is that the characters don't read as 'friends'. So, having exhausted all other courses of action, I figured, Post here.
Reading this paragraph is incredibly painful. I understand exactly what you are talking about this mindset, but you just need ignore it’s implications and be fine with getting fulfillment in return for putting on a manipulative act and a lot of effort to build such an act.
Well, the problem was, it was bleeding through into what I was writing. I've tossed it all out and I'm starting over. It's that old problem, how do you write about something you know nothing about? I am what I am. I want to write, NOT ME. Simple as that.
In answer to your actual question, I write a psychological fantasy that specifically exposes the falsities found in building friendships. I’ve got shit experience in writing a healthy perspective/ignorance is bliss relationships.
Yeah, I'm good at that. Alas, not good at the whole Healthy relationship thing. hence the request for advice.
Yeah, that one is fairly obvious. However, I was told it was coming across as they were working towards a common purpose, not a hobby.
Always jokes around, not centered around one guy, but as a group.
Ahhh... maybe that's the problem. I think I've been writing a 'cult of personality', not a group of friends.
A true guy's friend group is 90% shitpost-worthy conversations and 10% ultra deep philosophical discussions. And you mess with each other all the time, but at the end of the day when things really come down to it, each one would die for the other.
Is it? is there really a high level of 'shitposting' one another? Hrmmm... maybe I just have too high a level of sensitivity to that sort of thing. I tend to take people at face value. I see most jokes as, "This is What I really want to say, but I want plausible deniability incase this backfires." In my personal experience, this sort of thing only happened to the 'omega' of the group, where there was the one guy everyone picked on, but they hung around because they had no where else to go, and being laughed at was better than being alone.
Do you want friends? In real life, I mean. If the answer is no, then why bother writing about something you clearly have no interest on, have no experience with, and have no idea what it is or what it's like? Do you want to because you think most readers love the theme of friendship, and so if you want to succeed in this field, you have to jump up that bandwagon?
Uh, sure I want friends, but I don't need them. I have no strong need for companionship. I have my wife, we are very close. We are very much alike and she is a great partner in my life. However, when it comes to a need to interacting with people, I get no enjoyment from it, and often I find myself thinking, 'This is so unproductive. I could be getting so much work done right now.'.
If you have no interest in friendship, then don't bother. Just write something you're really interested in. A story features a manipulative MC can be very interesting—like, Ayanokoji from Classroom of the Elite. I for one wanna know what's going on in the mind of a manipulative person. It'd be an interesting experience for sure.
Interest in something is different from doing something. I find porn interesting. I have no desire to go out and do it with anyone. Even if my wildest fantasy showed up, I'd be like, "No thanks. I do not want to deal with the consequences of those actions." The intellectual interest in something doesn't mean I want something.
On the other hand, if your answer is yes, then start by learning how to make friends in real life. By that, I mean "real friend," not the fake kind with ulterior motives.
Maybe part of it is, I have given up. I can make friends, IF I put in the work, and spend my time, money, and energy on THEM. I cannot think of a single attempt I have made in the past 25-odd years where I got any sort of return on my investment. I have periodically made attempts to make friends based on hobbies and interests, but alas, the cost is often way too high.
I like comedy. I'm good at it. I figured I'd take up the hobby of stand-up comedy. Someone was offering a course and I figured, what the Hell. I need to get out of the house. It was 20 bucks. Let's go for it. It was okay. Honestly, most of them weren't that funny, but hey, we came up with some crazy stuff. We made ourselves laugh.
Then I found out I needed to change my politics if I wanted to continue hanging around the local comedy clubs.
Sorry. WAY TOO MUCH OF AN INVESTMENT. I told the rest of the group, "Not me." gave out my phone number and said, "If any of you wanna hang, let me know." I made a few calls, had a few chats, and then said to myself, if they can't bother to call me, then there is no point in trying. Nobody ever called me to stay in touch, I let it go.
I know how to make friends, but either it's me and I drive people away, or I just suck at picking people to be friends with, but if you cannot bother the investment of CALLING ME, then why am I spending time and money on you? Like one guy acted like he wanted to hang out, we had stuff in common, but you know, despite the fact I was willing to make time to hang out, say, HALF THE WEEK. Just pick a time in HALF THE WEEK, and I'll clear my schedule to hang. He just kept getting 'busy'.
Well, sorry mate, but if in a month, you can't commit to a time, I assume you don't want to be friends.
I've been used enough by people that I need some level of investment from you to call something a 'friendship'. Now, could be I'm people repellant. Could be I suck at picking people who are all leeches. Whatever. It is what it is and I don't sweat it. I have my standards, and they are quite low, yet people cannot reach the low low low bar of spending time with me when they aren't making money.
You know, one thing I've learned from life experience is that more often than not, you are the one responsible for everything that happens in your life, be it good or bad.
The one constant in all your bad relationships is YOU. Oh yeah. I LIVE by those words. I assume it's always my fault. You'll grow and improve much faster if you take that position.
At the heart of social skill is connection. Connection is everything. To connect, you have to engage and open yourself up. Engage means you are truly interested in the person you're interacting with and paying full attention. When you're interested, you'll naturally wanna know more about that person. Putting all your focus on that person also means you're not thinking about yourself, which in turn makes you not self-conscious whatsoever. The key take away is this: get out of your head and put your attention on the person you're talking to. That's the only thing you need to know about social skill. Everything else will follow right after, including opening yourself up and being vulnerable (I mean vulnerable, not miserable; you'll know what I mean after you interact with lots of people).
Indeed. I often can get people to be friendly and open up like that. I talked people out of suicide for YEARS. I can make you feel like the center of the universe. How to sound like you care without being insincere. How to agree, but not agree with everything so you demonstrate you have your own opinion. When to disagree on something trivial so they don't think you are blowing smoke up their ass. How to start debates over passionate topics to distract from other issues then bring it back around to the important things and showing how it's all connected and how YOU matter. Dude, I'm quite the charmer.
And it isn't that I'm fake about it. I actually do care about people. I find them to be wonderful, even horrible and broken people. In fact, broken people are my favorate people. I enjoy putting broken people...
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
That's my problem, isn't it? I home in on the people who need help the most and they are the ones who aren't capable of giving anything back. Fuck. Yeah... I guess that's the process at work, isn't it? Even in a room full of normal people, I always wind up talking to the person who needs the most attention because I find them the most interesting. I can just SMELL a wounded soul. Damn. Well no wonder I never find anyone willing to give something back. They can't.
Being open can be hard because most people are scared of being judged and shunned. The cure to such fear is to say fuck it and be yourself anyway. If someone judge you, make you feel uncomfortable, then they might not deserve to be your friend. Just move on.
DUDE. Read the original post. What makes you think I have a problem with being open? I got NO filter. I have NO problem baring my soul because I have become a much happier person ever since I stopped lying. Telling the truth, all the time, has freed me from guilt. I show off my scars and flaws at the drop of a hat because I know the first step to self-improvement is admitting you have a problem.
My issue is OVERSHARING. I WELCOME being judged. I mean... what animal isn't fascinated by a mirror?
Also, if you find someone hard to connect with—their beliefs, values, interests, hobbies, or personalities are completely different from yours—don't stress out; just look for someone else. The easiest way to make friends is to find like-minded individuals (those who share the same interests, values, beliefs with you).
Hrmmm... alas, I don't think there is anyone out there who is like-minded, except for my wife. We share a brain. But what we have isn't friendship. It is way beyond that.
Extrovert energy is a good place to start. If they're talkative, laugh and know how to joke or take one then that helps considerably compared to say someone that can't/struggles to.
Good point, but what someone else said I think was the problem. I made a cult of personality, not a group of friends.
Good friends on the other hand... sorry I can't help you. I am watching this thread for help as well.
Well, you may or may not be friendless, but you are cared about. The whole, EldritchGod persona/joke aside, I happen to like people and have yet to meet anyone who I found truly unworthy. I'm sure you have had multiple offers, but should you need to talk about any specific problem, I welcome anyone who needs an ear to talk to, or even a shoulder to cry on.
One shoulder only. No hugging. No homo. ;)
The irony is, I've helped lots of people "make" friends, but I have not experienced it myself more than a few times. I suspect it is because I pick people who need help and thus lack anything to give in return. Friendship is a two way street, after all.
When people say they want a friend, I feel they are saying, "I want someone who gives a shit if I live or die, enjoys spending time with me in a setting where they are not getting compensated in some other fashion, and that they give something back." I am a very supportive soul. I'm just sad that I cannot seem to find anyone who is willing to do it in return.
I think, at least in my case, it's because I don't seek out popular people. I figure they have enough friends, they certainly don't have time for me. But maybe I should do that more. Alas, I don't know anyone who is popular, so the point is moot.
That all said, if you need help, feel free to ask, and I'll be happy to go over the specifics of your situation and help you determine the best course of action to find the outcome you want.
You do realise that this thread will end up as a convention of friendless people whining about their life with the way you wrote it, right?
Nope. Didn't know that at all.
And you can make characters make friends however you want - as long as you think "yeah that sounds abput right". Force the circumstances. Suspension of disbelief is a powerful thing.
Ahh... but that last part. Suspension of disbelief. That's what the problem is. My writing has been SHIT on this topic and my pre-readers agreed that the 'friendships' read as fake. I don't want it to be fake. I want people to read it and think it's real. So the pre-readers could NOT suspend disbelief, and thus this thread.
Man this entire thread is depressing as fuck
It is? Hrmmm...
Edit: To add now that I think about it, there's also various levels of friendship that we sort of layer people into. People you chat with at work, people you invite to your house, people you call for a fling, people you call when you're crying. Everyone has a role in your life and people reach different levels of "comfort" based on how they interact with you, how you interact with them, levels of familiarity with one another, and also "TIS" or "Time in Service". In other words- how long have they been around? What's their trust level with you?
Yes. I have been using the same "type" of friendship universally when I write. I need to use a different one.
