Should your selfish hero consider themself virtuous?

[Tempokai]

They can as long the society views their actions as virtuous. But once the society finds out that he has a lavish mansion in the middle of nowhere, then there could be problems with it.

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Dude.

I have thought about it. Telling the stories of the hay-day of collections. It's changed. But yeah, the shit we pulled back in the day. Man. I mean, people went to federal PRISON. I wanted to make a sit-com about it. I called it "PAID IN FULL". Basically Taxi meets the Office in a collection agency.

The last episode would be on 9/11. Everyone sitting around, making jokes as the towers fall. The MC calling the debtors in NYC and not getting anywhere because all the phone lines are jammed. One of his co-workers runs out of the office crying and nobody else understands what the big deal is. Then the MC discovers his client's main office was in the towers as the planes hit. His first thought would be, "Damn. This is going to affect my bonus check, isn't it?"

At the end of the shift he's driving home and he wonders, "Am I Evil?"

And that'd be the fade out.

Because... that was the point I started to figure out I was evil.

As a side note...

I find it disturbing the trend in modern media to basically make fun of heroism and promote MCs who are basically selfish.

The problem is, good times lead to soft men and soft men lead to hard times.

I was evil. I hated everyone and I wanted nothing more than to destroy the world and burn everyone alive in it. I was a bundle of unfocused rage and I tortured people. legally. But I tortured them. I made thousands, tens of thousands suffer. Hell, If we go with the legal proofs I developed and the programs I wrote to automate the whole process of making people hurt for profit... well...

Let's just say I hope that there is no karma, because otherwise there is a very special place in Hell for me.

Not everyone comes back. Not everyone who jumped into the Abyss can find their way back out. I think I am stronger for it. I think I have a much more keen and sharp sense of right and wrong than most. I no longer try to help people to "make up for past wrongs." That's insane. Would you STOP doing the right thing just because you finally "balanced the ledger"?

You should do the right thing because it is better to leave this world better than you found it.
Being heroic is a million small things and being a hero is not something to be mocked. It isn't lame. Being a good man and doing good deeds is it's own reward. Trust me. Being able to sleep at night is a wonderful thing. Don't ever do anything you can't live with that will come back to haunt you.

We like to pretend we could be evil and cruel. We like reading stories about Anti-Heroes or Anti-Villains or just straight up villains because there is an appeal to burning it all down and starting over. But do you really think you could come up with a better world than the one that has been hard won through 12,000 years of civilization?

Of course you do. Because we all ask, Why doesn't The Batman Just Shoot The Joker? How many lives would he be saving if he had just done that?

Because the moment he does that, the moment he crosses that line, you need to draw a new line. Can you live with THAT line you will never cross? What about the Joker -1? Do you shoot him? How about Joker but only 4% of the original? Where do you stop shooting people? It's hard to understand for most people, because most people have never crossed the line. Most people never said, "Fuck It." and did whatever popped into their head while lying to themselves that "They're just ahead of the curve."

I drew the line at never breaking the law. It's amazing how evil you can be, legally. But I watched many people ignore that rule and wind up in prison. Eventually I lost the rage and got to see my past actions through eyes not blinded by rage.

I guess it's why I write about heroes.

Its far better people just were good from the get-go, instead of having to find out the hard way, like I did.

You know where the truth is. He's waiting whenever you want to seek him.

 

[Vnator]

Dude.

I have thought about it. Telling the stories of the hay-day of collections. It's changed. But yeah, the shit we pulled back in the day. Man. I mean, people went to federal PRISON. I wanted to make a sit-com about it. I called it "PAID IN FULL". Basically Taxi meets the Office in a collection agency.

The last episode would be on 9/11. Everyone sitting around, making jokes as the towers fall. The MC calling the debtors in NYC and not getting anywhere because all the phone lines are jammed. One of his co-workers runs out of the office crying and nobody else understands what the big deal is. Then the MC discovers his client's main office was in the towers as the planes hit. His first thought would be, "Damn. This is going to affect my bonus check, isn't it?"

At the end of the shift he's driving home and he wonders, "Am I Evil?"

And that'd be the fade out.

Because... that was the point I started to figure out I was evil.

As a side note...

I find it disturbing the trend in modern media to basically make fun of heroism and promote MCs who are basically selfish.

The problem is, good times lead to soft men and soft men lead to hard times.

I was evil. I hated everyone and I wanted nothing more than to destroy the world and burn everyone alive in it. I was a bundle of unfocused rage and I tortured people. legally. But I tortured them. I made thousands, tens of thousands suffer. Hell, If we go with the legal proofs I developed and the programs I wrote to automate the whole process of making people hurt for profit... well...

Let's just say I hope that there is no karma, because otherwise there is a very special place in Hell for me.

Not everyone comes back. Not everyone who jumped into the Abyss can find their way back out. I think I am stronger for it. I think I have a much more keen and sharp sense of right and wrong than most. I no longer try to help people to "make up for past wrongs." That's insane. Would you STOP doing the right thing just because you finally "balanced the ledger"?

You should do the right thing because it is better to leave this world better than you found it.
Being heroic is a million small things and being a hero is not something to be mocked. It isn't lame. Being a good man and doing good deeds is it's own reward. Trust me. Being able to sleep at night is a wonderful thing. Don't ever do anything you can't live with that will come back to haunt you.

We like to pretend we could be evil and cruel. We like reading stories about Anti-Heroes or Anti-Villains or just straight up villains because there is an appeal to burning it all down and starting over. But do you really think you could come up with a better world than the one that has been hard won through 12,000 years of civilization?

Of course you do. Because we all ask, Why doesn't The Batman Just Shoot The Joker? How many lives would he be saving if he had just done that?

Because the moment he does that, the moment he crosses that line, you need to draw a new line. Can you live with THAT line you will never cross? What about the Joker -1? Do you shoot him? How about Joker but only 4% of the original? Where do you stop shooting people? It's hard to understand for most people, because most people have never crossed the line. Most people never said, "Fuck It." and did whatever popped into their head while lying to themselves that "They're just ahead of the curve."

I drew the line at never breaking the law. It's amazing how evil you can be, legally. But I watched many people ignore that rule and wind up in prison. Eventually I lost the rage and got to see my past actions through eyes not blinded by rage.

I guess it's why I write about heroes.

Its far better people just were good from the get-go, instead of having to find out the hard way, like I did.

That's one hell of a life, then.

Though you know, you don't have to do good to "make up for it," you can just do it because you want to be better now.

And honestly, your life story plus your writing style has everything for a bestselling memoir about an asshole a la Always Sunny. Like, New York times bestselling.

》Before you can say "I love you" you must first know the word 'I'《

Ayn Rand, The Fountainhead

"To love is to value. Only a rationally selfish man, a man of self-esteem, is capable of love—because he is the only man capable of holding firm, consistent, uncompromising, unbetrayed values. The man who does not value himself, cannot value anything or anyone."

Ayn Rand, The Virtue Of Selfishness

Lol first quote from Ayn Rand I actually half agree with. Self esteem and the ability to value others is necessary, but not selfishness. She thinks being a selfish hypocritical asshole is the greatest virtue a person can have. Which makes sense when she did the same thing in her older age by accepting social security checks that she bashed earlier.

 

[phaeous]

That's one hell of a life, then. Though you know, you don't have to do good to "make up for it," you can just do it because you want to be better now. And honestly, your life story plus your writing style has everything for a bestselling memoir about an asshole a la Always Sunny. Like, New York times bestselling. Lol first quote from Ayn Rand I actually half agree with. Self esteem and the ability to value others is necessary, but not selfishness. She thinks being a selfish hypocritical asshole is the greatest virtue a person can have. Which makes sense when she did the same thing in her older age by accepting social security checks that she bashed earlier.

The moral purpose of a man’s life is the achievement of his own happiness. This does not mean that he is indifferent to all men, that human life is of no value to him and that he has no reason to help others in an emergency. But it does mean that he does not subordinate his life to the welfare of others, that he does not sacrifice himself to their needs, that the relief of their suffering is not his primary concern, that any help he gives is an exception, not a rule, an act of generosity, not of moral duty, that it is marginal and incidental—as disasters are marginal and incidental in the course of human existence—and that values, not disasters, are the goal, the first concern and the motive power of his life.
-Ayn Rand

The Objectivist ethics holds that human good does not require human sacrifices and cannot be achieved by the sacrifice of anyone to anyone. It holds that the rational interests of men do not clash—that there is no conflict of interests among men who do not desire the unearned, who do not make sacrifices nor accept them, who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value.
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/selfishness.html
regarding the social security incident, her lawyer who was authorized as her proxy accepted it sans her knowledge. she would not have agreed if she knew - but also believed that since the government had coerced away her values copiously throughout her life via taxes, perhaps it could be viewed as restitution. She mentioned if you don't have the awareness or implicit intent that you're getting back what was taken there wasn't a conceivable justification in accepting pilfered funds from those who steal not merely from yourself

 

[Vnator]

The moral purpose of a man’s life is the achievement of his own happiness. This does not mean that he is indifferent to all men, that human life is of no value to him and that he has no reason to help others in an emergency. But it does mean that he does not subordinate his life to the welfare of others, that he does not sacrifice himself to their needs, that the relief of their suffering is not his primary concern, that any help he gives is an exception, not a rule, an act of generosity, not of moral duty, that it is marginal and incidental—as disasters are marginal and incidental in the course of human existence—and that values, not disasters, are the goal, the first concern and the motive power of his life.

Ayn Rand

The Objectivist ethics holds that human good does not require human sacrifices and cannot be achieved by the sacrifice of anyone to anyone. It holds that the rational interests of men do not clash—that there is no conflict of interests among men who do not desire the unearned, who do not make sacrifices nor accept them, who deal with one another as traders, giving value for value.

—Ayn Rand Lexicon

The Ayn Rand Lexicon: This mini-encyclopedia of Objectivism is compiled from Ayn Rand’s statements on some 400 topics in philosophy, economics, psychology and history.

aynrandlexicon.com

regarding the social security incident, her lawyer who was authorized as her proxy accepted it sans her knowledge. she would not have agreed if she knew - but also believed that since the government had coerced away her values copiously throughout her life via taxes, perhaps it could be viewed as restitution. She mentioned if you don't have the awareness or implicit intent that you're getting back what was taken there wasn't a conceivable justification in accepting pilfered funds from those who steal not merely from yourself.

You say that her ideals don't require being selfish, but her writings and fans say otherwise. And she even said herself that it was fine for her to accept social security because she decried it earlier in life.

I get that you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm, but she and her characters will happily set others in fire if they feel a little chilly.

 

[phaeous]

You say that her ideals don't require being selfish, but her writings and fans say otherwise. And she even said herself that it was fine for her to accept social security because she decried it earlier in life.

I get that you don't have to set yourself on fire to keep others warm, but she and her characters will happily set others in fire if they feel a little chilly.

I really disdain responding at this point. When did I say I rejected selfishness? Her ideals require rational (genuine) selfishness

It's amazing & yet dumbfounding you can spout ludicrous bs with so much confidence...

If there's anybody else reading this, please consider the following quote & ask yourself whether the person speaking could be the daft lunatic this thing says she be.

"Love is the emotional price paid by one man for the joy he receives from the virtues of another" (virtue = value attaining)

 

[Vnator]

I really disdain responding at this point. When did I say I rejected selfishness? Her ideals require rational (genuine) selfishness

It's amazing & yet dumbfounding you can spout ludicrous bs with so much confidence...

If there's anybody else reading this, please consider the following quote & ask yourself whether the person speaking could be the daft lunatic this thing says she be.

"Love is the emotional price paid by one man for the joy he receives from the virtues of another" (virtue = value attaining)

I'm fine with ending our argument, but what's with the personal attacks and insults against me? Do you not have any actual responses so you've defaulted to insults with big words to sound like you're correct and reasonable?

All anyone needs to do to dislike Ayn Rand is to read one of her books and how she portrays her ideal person, then look at the real world to see how that "ideal person" actually acts.

 

[phaeous]

I'm fine with ending our argument, but what's with the personal attacks and insults against me? Do you not have any actual responses so you've defaulted to insults with big words to sound like you're correct and reasonable?

All anyone needs to do to dislike Ayn Rand is to read one of her books and how she portrays her ideal person, then look at the real world to see how that "ideal person" actually acts.

I already addressed & explicitly, clearly contradicted what you said I claimed... you simply displayed no evidence o actually reading what i wrote let alone understanding

Moreover, do you think those writing fics just take the meta nature their story possesses from nonexistence or something? nonexistence non -exists, you know.

If you're objecting & saying the logic or reality depicted's nonreal- please describe what exactly you mean¤