Should the sites like Scribble Hub use the 5-star rating system?

Should the Scribble Hub use the 5-star rating system?


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    60

melchi

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I think that the problem is a disconnect between reviewers and what that means for potential readers.

A 3 star review is mid in some people's mind. They think it is not good, but not bad either.

However, anything below a 4 star effectively is a vote against the fiction. A lot of readers won't give a work that averages below 4 stars a chance.

Like Keane was saying, there are people who just give everything a review around a certain level. If all the reviews a certain person reviews are averaging around 3 stars then said reviewer giving a 4 or 5 star means more.

If the average review a certain reviewer gives is below 3 stars that also says something too.
 

owotrucked

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There is nothing wrong with the system, its the people that use it who are the problem.
Who are you building the system for, if not people? Cats?

Nah for real, there are systemic issues that you can only solve from the top. Pinning the blame on the choice of individual leads to nowhere, because it's not a compliant variable. There are always people who will dump their trash in nature no matter how many education campaign, people who will cook chicken in cough syrup despite warnings, or cavers who will squeeze themselves to death in the tiniest holes.

I believe systems can be improved. Like making a system's Nash equilibrium a win for everyone, instead of being trash for everyone.

The only other possibility left from a flawed system is to not use it. And I'm sure you don't want to hear another author whine about lack of rating
 

beast_regards

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Who are you building the system for, if not people? Cats?
There is the direct correlation between this post and cats, yes, but it isn't this...

The 5-star system isn't built to benefit people, i.e. users, consumers.

It is built to benefit the sellers, i.e. shops and manufacturers.

However, the "manufacturer" of the story, the writer, has no control over what the shop does with their merchandise (i.e. story) they sell, and how to sell it. Normally, they do, because the shop pays for merchandise which they sell with profit, at which manufacturer gains some money, and leverage.

In the writing world, all leverage is on the provider site, which isn't interested in the merchandise (story) being sold (read). They get it for free as they aren't publishers. They are interested in traffic.

Hence, they turn the system around.

The site doesn't benefit from the high rating of the novel, because, well, they aren't getting any money from it. They benefit from traffic in generates, and that doesn't correlate with being rated high, but low, as there is conflict, and with conflict comes traffic.

Hence, when normal, the negative reviews are frowned upon (because inferior product still need to be sold, along with the good one) ...

... the negative reviews are encouraged, and conflict is necessary.

I bomb your story, then you bomb mine, then you create a second account to double down, then I create a new account to double down ...
 
D

Deleted member 266

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My opinion is that rating are for readers, writers shouldnt care or paid attention to it.


Then again when i read I don't care or use ratings, I look at the content, synopsis and tags, I don't even read reviews, i just read the first few chapters.

But that's just a throw back to physical books I guess, I mean if you want to know if a book is good, you just read it, who gives a shit what some rando thinks, I can read my self, thanks. That sort a feeling.

On the other side, I find even less use as a writer, if I want feed back I ask someone, irl, or forum. Someone that actually giving advice and not a drive by reviewer, shouting into the void.

Honest question when you look for something to read do you use the ratings to sort your search? I mean thats some next level shit, I ain't making that effort i just type tags and genre, and then sort by whats new.
 

Tyranomaster

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This couldn't happen with dislikes. You could give only one dislike with one account.

This may seem bad, considering the bots, but if you compare it to the ability to inflict what is essenctially 20 dislikes with one account where rating scale is involved, that's still a lesser evil.
While I can agree that this is generally true, the effort to spin up 1 vs 20 accounts is a matter of a few minutes on google + SH. Sure, the effort might be higher, but malicious intent happens regardless.

Reviews don't even have to be left, they can simply be ratings that are added, to further obfuscate the problem.
... the negative reviews are encouraged, and conflict is necessary.

I bomb your story, then you bomb mine, then you create a second account to double down, then I create a new account to double down ...
This happens rarely, but it does happen. Reporting and moving on is the best thing to do. If you're advocating for breaking the rules to harm other people, I can't stand with that. Retaliation is also just breaking the rules and is wrong. I thought someone who hated royalroad for the exact reason of coordinated attacks would also feel that way, but I guess not, and you're just a hypocrite.

Ideally, there is a system in place to weight reviews based on prior review accuracy and number of prior reviews. This not only solves fresh account botting, but also helps to lower the influence of accounts that only give 5 stars or 1 stars, or have little to no reviews other than one story (After all, how can we know how good that person is at reviewing without other reviews to compare to?)

In an ideal world, honest actors are the only reviews that matter, and malicious actors reviews mean nothing. While it's not possible to reach that ideal, it's possible to approximate it. With algorithmic attention weighting, it'd be very costly to review bomb a single story with a bot network, and could cost years of work if the review bomb was found out. You'd have to coordinate dozen of bot accounts of hundreds of other stories in order to build up their reputation and accuracy rating, and if the review bomb was spotted, the whole network and all that work would get taken down.

That said, every review system stems it's own cultural problems around it. Amazon's system encourages sellers to incentivize buyers to leave positive reviews with monetary incentives. Steam's system is easy to fool for small number of reviewed games; there are numerous accounts of 'high rated' games that sell for hundreds as scams, that after two or three purchases get deleted, but they've already made their money back.

Even the system I've prescribed would likely result in authors needing to actively reach out to 'High rated reviewers' in order to get a settled rating early. Basically, review threads would become much more common, where a select number of people's opinions would be worth much more than random users (even if their opinion is proven to be more accurate on average, that still puts undue power in random people's hands). Basically, it'd create a reviewer aristocracy, but I'd argue that's probably better than either of the other systems.

In lieu of that, the up/down rating is probably better than 1-5 stars, but steam has also had review bombs happen, so the system isn't immune to malicious actors, it just helps limit the harm to mediocre creators in some contexts.
 

owotrucked

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The 5-star system isn't built to benefit people, i.e. users, consumers.

It is built to benefit the sellers, i.e. shops and manufacturers.
Hmm... I disagree with that premise. Imo users actually want to express themselves and shit on the seller. The ability of 5star ratings benefits the platform (SH) and the readers, not the writers.

Look, have you ever seen a reader go complain about the rating system? Ofc not. But you will see authors go "BURN THE 5STAR RATING!!!" on a daily basis.

As a writer, I think one reader's 5 is a banana and another reader's 5 is an apple. So it makes no sense to me to lump them together, so I'll vote for like and dislike.

But, ask a reader: Hey I'll take away your power to rate 1 to 5 stars and only give you like and dislike, they'll go "wtf dont touch my stars"

Aaaand that's why, Tony prolly won't give a shit and keep the rating system as it is. So don't get your hopes to high, unless you can organize a writer strike lmao
 

beast_regards

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This happens rarely, but it does happen. Reporting and moving on is the best thing to do. If you're advocating for breaking the rules to harm other people, I can't stand with that. Retaliation is also just breaking the rules and is wrong. I thought someone who hated royalroad for the exact reason of coordinated attacks would also feel that way, but I guess not, and you're just a hypocrite.
You received hundreds, if not thousands, suggestions on how to improve your rating system, and you ignored every single one of them, or dismissed them outright.

I made some of those suggestions, and you rejected them too.

I, among others, suggested that the hobbyist writers uninterested in the mad dash to the Rising Stars, and subsequent Amazon contract, could opt out, creating the hobbyist section which would be completely devoid of your rating wars.

You rejected it. In fact, you were horrified that someone on the suggested "hobbyist section" could put up the Patreon, and you wouldn't get a share. Pure, simple greed, nothing more, a million dollar company and doesn't have enough.

But fine...

I suggested the different suggestion then. A very cheap one, at that, and wouldn't even require any change to your fabulous system...

Just explain what each star means. No other change, just a legend. Horrible<Bad<Average<Good<Excellent

You rejected that too, because you were too greedy.

Not to mention, you came here and attacked me, demanding me to DELETE my story I WASTED TWO YEARS OF MY LIFE ON because you are greedy.

I left your site a long time ago.

And I would like to remind you I created my ko-fi account only to counteract changes YOU implemented and before I even amassed your massive fee you changed your rules three times!

Leave me alone.

I came to this site to be free from YOU
 

Anonjohn20

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What kind of child likes YouTube's system of hiding dislikes? Absolute garbage.

However, anything below a 4 star effectively is a vote against the fiction. A lot of readers won't give a work that averages below 4 stars a chance.
Lies, many of us choose our stories based on synopsis and genre/tag. Only a system like RR that tries to hide disliked stories encourages what you claim.
 

CharlesEBrown

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I kind of like the system a few places use that discounts the highest and lowest ratings (usually once something gets a total of 20 ratings - doesn't show a rating before that, and goes to a percentage if the number of ratings gets above a certain point, like the top and bottom 2% are dropped in forming the aggregate), but that requires a bit of coding and is still possible to break, just a little harder.
 

beast_regards

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Aaaand that's why, Tony prolly won't give a shit and keep the rating system as it is. So don't get your hopes to high, unless you can organize a writer strike lmao
Realistically, yes, he will keep the rating system.

Even if he agreed with me one hundred percent, changing it on the site like this would be a logistical nightmare: too expensive, an enormous investment for the hobbyist site, without any substantial returns.

The Scribble Hub runs on donations, and some ads most of us won't even see. It is not the multi-million dollar company like the Royal Road, with corporate clients to please.

However, irrational demands seem to be a course of this week, so I added my irrational demand too.

At least my demand doesn't ask the other people's work to be deleted.
 
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