Should the prohibited content rules for Scribblehub be ammended to include Illegal Monetization?

[Valmond]

"Note about lack of fanfiction tag: This story originally DID have the fanfiction tag, but I recieved RavensDagger's permission to take donations. The RR admin wasn't able to open donations without removing the tag. The lack of tag is intentional.


If you haven't read the original story read it here: Stray Cat Strut"

Teddy Bears on Brigade [A SCS Fanfiction]

Ah okay, thanks. This clarifies things.

And that’s good they got permission, solves all the problems.

 

[beast_regards]

The probability you would be sued by the IP owner is, in fact, very low, unless you upset some notorious player like Games Workshop (which loves to burn money on destroying people who create free advertisement)

Problem is that if you try to seriously enforce it, your site will be bombarded with the fake reports to take down the content.

It happens on the Youtube right now, and was for the while.

Videos are taken down frequently based on the made up claims that might not even involve the actual IP owner, but abuse the mechanic of three strikes to straight away attempt to delete the competition if any report is taken seriously.

And this is what you aim to create here.

It's like review bombing on that site, but with documents...

That's what could happen, and is happening elsewhere right now.

It doesn't even need to involve actual IP owner. It's not uncommon for the hobbyist sites to pay the lip service to the law, offering to take down the offending work, respecting the copyright law and the right of the owners, and so on, but who actually enforces it? Seriously? No one. They just have to say they respect the law, because, in all honestly, it's the much greater offence to claim you don't acknowledge the state government. So everyone respects the copyright, and writers fan-fics, and some kid gets free 10 dollars, but that's pretty much it. Nothing else happens. Usually.

However, if it is actually enforced?

Seriously?

I deleted my fan-fiction ... fine, hope you are happy, it wasn't that good,I am not even claim I am a competent writer, but ...

But do you realize what a cesspit you create with this? It's straight away malicious.

 

[Tyranomaster]

The probability you would be sued by the IP owner is, in fact, very low, unless you upset some notorious player like Games Workshop (which loves to burn money on destroying people who create free advertisement)

Problem is that if you try to seriously enforce it, your site will be bombarded with the fake reports to take down the content.

It happens on the Youtube right now, and was for the while.

Videos are taken down frequently based on the made up claims that might not even involve the actual IP owner, but abuse the mechanic of three strikes to straight away attempt to delete the competition if any report is taken seriously.

And this is what you aim to create here.

It's like review bombing on that site, but with documents...

That's what could happen, and is happening elsewhere right now.

It doesn't even need to involve actual IP owner. It's not uncommon for the hobbyist sites to pay the lip service to the law, offering to take down the offending work, respecting the copyright law and the right of the owners, and so on, but who actually enforces it? Seriously? No one. They just have to say they respect the law, because, in all honestly, it's the much greater offence to claim you don't acknowledge the state government. So everyone respects the copyright, and writers fan-fics, and some kid gets free 10 dollars, but that's pretty much it. Nothing else happens. Usually.

However, if it is actually enforced?

Seriously?

I deleted my fan-fiction ... fine, hope you are happy, it wasn't that good,I am not even claim I am a competent writer, but ...

But do you realize what a cesspit you create with this? It's straight away malicious.

Keep them up, but don't allow monetization. That's the concern.

I don't like fanfiction. I don't think they should be taken down, but they certainly aren't legally allowed to be fully monetized (not even in the gray area). Sometimes they're actually real tributes, and are good. I've read a few good fanfictions, I like video game mods, and I like fan versions of various things. When they're monetized though, it's just wrong, end of story.

As for *Some kid gets a free 10 dollars*. If it was some kid getting 10 bucks, I wouldn't care. It's people pocketing hundreds, sometimes thousands a month off it. That's drug dealing levels of money. They're up on the front page right now.

Most authors start out as nobodies. Just because someone made it big doesn't mean they suddenly shouldn't be treated like the rest of us. If someone made an unauthorized fanfiction of my story, and was raking in thousands a month, I'd file a DMCA and demand the money they made plus damages. If it didn't seem like the right amount, I'd take them to court at a loss just to make a fuss about it. That shouldn't change just because of the level of success.

 

[Empress_Omnii]

When they're monetized though, it's just wrong, end of story.

With the exception being when given permission. Which is why the system needs a way to easily receive the same treatment.

 

[beast_regards]

Keep them up, but don't allow monetization. That's the concern.

I don't like fanfiction. I don't think they should be taken down, but they certainly aren't legally allowed to be fully monetized (not even in the gray area). Sometimes they're actually real tributes, and are good. I've read a few good fanfictions, I like video game mods, and I like fan versions of various things. When they're monetized though, it's just wrong, end of story.

As for *Some kid gets a free 10 dollars*. If it was some kid getting 10 bucks, I wouldn't care. It's people pocketing hundreds, sometimes thousands a month off it. That's drug dealing levels of money. They're up on the front page right now.

Most authors start out as nobodies. Just because someone made it big doesn't mean they suddenly shouldn't be treated like the rest of us. If someone made an unauthorized fanfiction of my story, and was raking in thousands a month, I'd file a DMCA and demand the money they made plus damages. If it didn't seem like the right amount, I'd take them to court at a loss just to make a fuss about it. That shouldn't change just because of the level of success.

And you attacked me despite the fact I am just writing the story in my free time ...

You just want to make life worse for everyone.

 

[Empress_Omnii]

And you attacked me despite the fact I am just writing the story in my free time ...

You just want to make life worse for everyone.

Isn't he just saying that making money from fanfiction is illegal and as such there should be measure in place to prevent it?
So long as you aren't putting fanfiction chapters onto a patreon this shouldn't make anyone's life worse.

 

[ReadersAnonymous]

Why this is a thing?
Artists do commissions all the time. A commission artist will take $150 per image, without an eye blink, and you could ask for commission of the copyrighted character. They nag where the AI is taking the job away from them, but don't have any compulsion against drawing characters from the existing franchises. They will happily draw them, if you pay. You may not use their picture on the cover, but you could commission it without a problem! I see a double standards here.

 

[Tyranomaster]

Why this is a thing?
Artists do commissions all the time. A commission artist will take $150 per image, without an eye blink, and you could ask for commission of the copyrighted character. They nag where the AI is taking the job away from them, but don't have any compulsion against drawing characters from the existing franchises. They will happily draw them, if you pay. You may not use their picture on the cover, but you could commission it without a problem! I see a double standards here.

Two reasons. First, it's not generally legal. It could also be taken to court. (Yes, artist alley at most anime conventions are breaching copyright law).

Second, it's easier to argue the work is transformative when it isn't in the same genre of art. A painting about a story? Clearly some amount of transformative work was done. A story about a painting? Probably transformative. A picture about a picture? Gonna have to look deeper to determine. A story about a story? Needs to be evaluated. That's why.

In most cases, those artists *are* breaking the law. Pretty much every other writing site has protections in place against this.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Two reasons. First, it's not generally legal. It could also be taken to court. (Yes, artist alley at most anime conventions are breaching copyright law).

Second, it's easier to argue the work is transformative when it isn't in the same genre of art. A painting about a story? Clearly some amount of transformative work was done. A story about a painting? Probably transformative. A picture about a picture? Gonna have to look deeper to determine. A story about a story? Needs to be evaluated. That's why.

In most cases, those artists *are* breaking the law. Pretty much every other writing site has protections in place against this.

Bruh, don't take the bait.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I'll also iterate a more urgent point on the matter. Other people who frequent the forum will know how often people ask questions of why their work was limited for violating a rule.

Most authors simply don't even know they're breaking the law and puting themselves at legal risk. The other sites put the restriction in place to both legally protect themselves and young authors who just want to write and have no clue about the law.

I've seen so many authors repeat mistakes on the forums over and over. Fanfics are raking in money too, as we've discussed. If it takes a year for a dmca to get sent, and they ask for damages (say $4k usd based on them making $400 a month), but they've spent it, it's gonna hurt them. Like, a lot.

I think it's good practice to inform the authors of the law on the matter.

 

[ReadersAnonymous]

Two reasons. First, it's not generally legal. It could also be taken to court. (Yes, artist alley at most anime conventions are breaching copyright law).

Second, it's easier to argue the work is transformative when it isn't in the same genre of art. A painting about a story? Clearly some amount of transformative work was done. A story about a painting? Probably transformative. A picture about a picture? Gonna have to look deeper to determine. A story about a story? Needs to be evaluated. That's why.

In most cases, those artists *are* breaking the law. Pretty much every other writing site has protections in place against this.

Yet you aren't going after artists? They have patreons too.
Same artists that complain about AI doing things faster then them, they even complain the AI is trained on the images that were already against the copyright law, but no double standards? They want to ban AI so they have their market back.
You want to ban fanfics so you make more money too
What about just let everyone do their thing, dont be an ass, live and let live

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Don't take the bait.

 

[ReadersAnonymous]

ban the fanfics, just tell those people they got screwed becaus one guy was jello he coulnt sell his shit

 

[Alski]

Yet you aren't going after artists? They have patreons too.

Its a writers forum not an artists forum.

 

[ReadersAnonymous]

Its a writers forum not an artists forum.

cat in the amazon box! copyright violation Tyranomaster owns cat!

 

[melchi]

I'm not sure where it falls. Recently Stray Cat Strut fanfics have been appearing on trending. And it's much easier to access author of Stray Cat Strut and ask if you can monetize your fanfic or not. Do people ask the author? I don't know. But let's pretend they did and the author allowed them to monetize their fanfictions. In that case, I think monetization is fine. The problem with this method is, how can you know they aren't lying? Ask for proof? What if they fake it? Ask the author of an original work?

In an ideal world, I would've loved for fanfics to have monetization if they have a permit from an original author. As is I would prefer straight up removing every fanfcic with monetization.

Lastly, will anything change? Nothing will change for an obvious reason.

To be fair, ravens dagger has fanfiction contests for stray cat strut that are official.

 

[Alski]

To be fair, ravens dagger has fanfiction contests for stray cat strut that are official.

Its also a localy grown IP. Unlike most other fanfics.

 

[beast_regards]

I am tired, too tired, but I could manage the last rant.

You know what this reminds me of?

The Royal Road.

My last few days on those accursed sites.

They changed the rules once again, tightened the noose, but at first, I didn't consider it a problem.

I have flagged my story with all of those warning tags.

Violence, sexual content, profanity, sensitive, all of them.

Just to be left alone.

Not get involved. It was just a story written in the spare time, out of the random idea, a looking for the friend equivalent, not the grand scheme game you suggest with your guides,

Many of those tags weren't actual, there weren't any explicit scenes, there weren't any profanity within, how graphic was the violence could be debatable ... I just wanted to continue my story at peace.

I only started asking for donation in the desperate attempt to compensate for the damage your bots caused to me, to pay off you greedy RR scum.

But there was never an end to this madness, not stop harassment from your alternate accounts, you even threaten with the lawsuit back then too.

I am sad.

It feels like this is closing to the death of the SH.

Goodbye.

Maybe tomorrow I will have to delete my original story, one I worked for the two years without any compensation, because some Ami Tyrant John doesn't have enough money yet.

 

[Empress_Omnii]

But there was never an end to this madness, not stop harassment from your alternate accounts, you even threaten with the lawsuit back then too.

I'm sure that isn't the intent here. All this discussion was about was limiting the ability to show a patreon or similar site to prevent illegal monetization.

I am truly sorry for what you've dealt with, but nothing has changed here. But even if it does, you're going to be fine as long as you don't post chapters ahead for a fanfic and lock them behind a paywall.
Original stories won't be affect if this comes into effect, so I think you should be fine to keep your story up.

 

[Tyranomaster]

I'm sure that isn't the intent here. All this discussion was about was limiting the ability to show a patreon or similar site to prevent illegal monetization.

I am truly sorry for what you've dealt with, but nothing has changed here. But even if it does, you're going to be fine as long as you don't post chapters ahead for a fanfic and lock them behind a paywall.
Original stories won't be affect if this comes into effect, so I think you should be fine to keep your story up.

While I appreciate the help, you can just ignore them. They're suffering from some kind of psychosis about royal road. Their profile is full of them ranting about it every day. I'll usually banter with them once or twice then just stop bothering. I made the mistake of making a comment how royalroad wasn't quite as bad as they made it out to be and was labelled a paid actor from then on.