Read-Baiting Readers

[MakBow]

This is something I thought about ever since I read Re: Zero:

I notice that the title of the Re: Zero could come off as being the generic isekai as well as the start, but later on, quickly more so, it starts to get a lot better into peak.

Do you think it's smart to bait readers into thinking they're going to read a simple enjoyable revenge isekai power fantasy novel, but give them actual good writing, worldbuilding, and great characters?
(That's assuming I can pull that off)

(My idea since on the side, I'm writing my revenge isekai novel on the side inspired my Failure Frame, but with a lot of changes as well as references to my inspiration)

(Not posted yet but will be soon)

 

[DismaiNaim]

I dunno. I put Isekai on my story even though it takes seventeen chapters for MC to get to the other world and he just walks there

 

[ConansWitchBaby]

I dunno. I put Isekai on my story even though it takes seventeen chapters for MC to get to the other world and he just walks there

Me and my homies just love walking into other worlds.

Failure Frame you say? Do eet.

 

[MakBow]

Me and my homies just love walking into other worlds.

Failure Frame you say? Do eet.

Don't worry. It's more so me taking what failed at Failure Frame, sprinkling some flaws so the MC isn't OP as well as making more interesting characters and making a story out of it.

 

[LeilaniOtter]

As someone who worked in an office quite a while, I always wanted to know what the big deal was with "Zero" and what was it regarding. ?

 

[laccoff_mawning]

Is the start of Re: Zero actually generic though? I think it has a pretty original premise and execution.

Do you think it's smart to bait readers into thinking they're going to read a simple enjoyable revenge isekai power fantasy novel, but give them actual good writing, worldbuilding, and great characters?

You seem to be implying that anyone who writes a revenge isekai power fantasy novel makes a deliberate choice to sabotage themselves with poorly written prose, worldbuilding. and characters.

 

[MakBow]

Is the start of Re: Zero actually generic though? I think it has a pretty original premise and execution.


You seem to be implying that anyone who writes a revenge isekai power fantasy novel makes a deliberate choice to sabotage themselves with poorly written prose, worldbuilding. and characters.

For the first one, at least for me, it felt like it was going down the typical oh, the character knows the tropes and they happen. It happens in isekai a lot so for me, it felt generic, even if these tropes, did necessarily happen

For the second one, I'm not saying that at all, but when you see the track record. You just can't really expect much when it comes to revenge isekai, especially when they're all the same: students get transported, one is seen as trash, gets sent god knows where, skills are actually OP, dog walks every enemy, gets revenge, then claims all the women he wants or the revenge never happens.

 

[ringo_34]

Re: Zero is peak! So excited to see Arc 6 animated.

Truth be told, I never felt that I got baited by Re: Zero (though maybe that's due to me being spoiled on certain things beforehand).

But generally speaking, it's not a bad idea. Like you say, if the writing, worldbuilding, and characters are great and memorable, you'll reach a stable audience. I don't have the stats, but I highly doubt your average revenge isekai has a high reader retention rate. Most people tend to lose interest after a while... unless there's good writing.

 

[MakBow]

Re: Zero is peak! So excited to see Arc 6 animated.

Truth be told, I never felt that I got baited by Re: Zero (though maybe that's due to me being spoiled on certain things beforehand).

But generally speaking, it's not a bad idea. Like you say, if the writing, worldbuilding, and characters are great and memorable, you'll reach a stable audience. I don't have the stats, but I highly doubt your average revenge isekai has a high reader retention rate. Most people tend to lose interest after a while... unless there's good writing.

I do agree.
Revenge Novels can come off as boring if nothing happens or everything just happens, which is why I have my character be extremely misfortune, with good skills (since its LitRPG), but to use them is actually terrible or sometimes not useful.

Failure Frame could have slightly more decent if there was a 50% chance of hitting. (For my MC is 40%)

As I feel that would have added a far better limit then just how many targets and range.

I'm also forcing my MC to actually survive the dungeon. He won't just be in there, kill some monsters, then get out easy.
It's an entire saga on its own.

 

[PancakesWitch]

This is something I thought about ever since I read Re: Zero:

I notice that the title of the Re: Zero could come off as being the generic isekai as well as the start, but later on, quickly more so, it starts to get a lot better into peak.

Do you think it's smart to bait readers into thinking they're going to read a simple enjoyable revenge isekai power fantasy novel, but give them actual good writing, worldbuilding, and great characters?
(That's assuming I can pull that off)

(My idea since on the side, I'm writing my revenge isekai novel on the side inspired my Failure Frame, but with a lot of changes as well as references to my inspiration)

(Not posted yet but will be soon)

I mean, that's how authors do it nowaday in web novels, if you advertise your thing as something deep and not like the others its actually not going to get that much traction, it has to be advertised like it is yet another generic slop with a click bait title so the majority of readers (who seek the same thing they read before but a little different) will read your stuff and then be pleasantly surprised its actually deep

 

[RavenWulfgar]

This is something I thought about ever since I read Re: Zero:

I notice that the title of the Re: Zero could come off as being the generic isekai as well as the start, but later on, quickly more so, it starts to get a lot better into peak.

Do you think it's smart to bait readers into thinking they're going to read a simple enjoyable revenge isekai power fantasy novel, but give them actual good writing, worldbuilding, and great characters?
(That's assuming I can pull that off)

(My idea since on the side, I'm writing my revenge isekai novel on the side inspired my Failure Frame, but with a lot of changes as well as references to my inspiration)

(Not posted yet but will be soon)

I'll be straight up, I know next to nothing about Isekai stories but can I be honest with a lot of you?

I should probably tell this story in short form.

The Nocturneverse wasn't supposed to happen.

I'm serious. This started as Rune Knight working on me to convince me to get Vampire: The Requiem and give it another look.

Unlike the movie Sinners, this is vampire material that didn't waste my time and gave me something to work with immediately. I had unfairly judged it the first time.

The story Nothing Lasts Forever was just supposed to be an establishing shot. A conversation between two friends. It was rattling around in my head for days until I finally wrote it just to give Rune Knight an idea of what the character was and what he was like. It was a sneaky attempt at a 20-page backstory because I had all these ideas in my head and I put them down and well, that's how this all got started.

Well, that certainly didn't stay that way, did it? Now it's a series of solo games centered around horror and the supernatural all taking place in the same world. You can even do it yourself.

Now, if I understand it, Isekai is...fish out of water stories? Is that right? Look, y'all I'm almost 50 and a lot of this stuff escapes me pretty easily so...does this cover stories where a character is just in over their heads? I dunno.

I know I am.

Meaning the only thing to do is keep going. If I have any advice to give, it's that, keep going. Don't try to direct it too much. Draven got side-quested pretty hard and none of that was supposed to happen, it just did. Dice rolls being what they are.

In fact, my advice: Turn your writing into a game or find a game that supports the kind of story you want to tell and play that game, keep notes and then turn those notes into a story. That's how we're doing it with The Nocturneverse.

By the way, Thank Rune Knight for that brand because he's the one that came up with it.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

If it gets and keeps readers, everything is fair. If it doesn't, it may still be fair, or maybe not... only time will tell.

Now, if I understand it, Isekai is...fish out of water stories? Is that right? Look, y'all I'm almost 50 and a lot of this stuff escapes me pretty easily so...does this cover stories where a character is just in over their heads? I dunno.

Literally "Isekai" means "other world" - so any story where a character goes to another world, from The Chronicles of Narnia, to Well of Souls, to Gor, to the John Carter series COULD be fairly considered Isekai.

The modern definition seems to include a character taken out of their life (usually by death and reincarnation, but it can be just sucked into a game - c.f. My Assassin System - or like the John Carter stories where he, essentially, astrally projects to Barsoom.

 

[Eldoria]

As someone who worked in an office quite a while, I always wanted to know what the big deal was with "Zero" and what was it regarding. ?

Why [Re] Zero? Because you're forced to repeat time (return to zero) only to experience the suffering again. Re: Zero is essentially a looping trauma narrative. The reader is forced to become the protagonist, experiencing a cycle of trauma over and over again just to save their loved ones.

It's a heavy, emotional, and meaningful story. It's not suitable for casual readers, but that's precisely what makes Re Zero a unique isekai fiction in its segment.

Critical note:
Zero's symbolism is completely consistent throughout the narrative and is not only symbolic but also literal. The protagonist (Subaru) not only returns to the zero point (checkpoint), but he is also forced to rebuild relationships from even though he has fought tooth and nail in the previous loop.

Rem, for example, the most important person to Subaru (besides Emilia) is forced into an eternal sleep and when she wakes up - Subaru is forgotten by Rem. In another arc, Subaru is the one who suffers from amnesia. The symbolism of returning to zero is the core conflict of the story.