Races or Species

[OatMush]

Interchangeable, or depends on circumstance.
I think tribe is underutilized. Also clade could be fun to mix in.

Taxonomy is inherently messy and even in the last 50 years the language has changed a lot, subspecies might be the correct term under modern taxonomy. But is your story set in modern times? It wasn't that long ago taxonomists would sometimes label real-world non-europeans as different species, although that was for mostly racist reasons. I think Australian Aboriginals weren't officially recognised as homo sapien by the government until the seventies or something.
I think you should use whatever word feels right for your setting.

Also look up ring species if you want to be confused by modern taxonomy. Nothing in biology is ever simple.

 

[Cipiteca396]

Neither word is entirely accurate, so either is appropriate. I prefer races and subraces for the sake of tradition- at least in fantasy. I suppose you'd want to use species in scifi. Though it might be incorrect to do so even there...

 

[Cortavar]

I like to stick with the interbreedable principle. Half-elves are a thing? Then humans and elves are the same species, different races/breeds. Half-dwarves don't exist? Different species!

Dwarves can interbreed with humans but not elves? You've gotten yourself a ring species, different races, congratulations!

Think of chihuahuas and dobermans: they're unequivocally dogs, but can't interbreed directly (poor female chihuahua...). Throw in a poodle and a Labrador retriever as intermediary steps and they can interbreed in a roundabout way: that's a ring species.

 

[OatMush]

@Cortavar
I like the implication ring species are to do with dick size.

 

[Cortavar]

@Cortavar
I like the implication ring species are to do with dick size.

Well, maybe not always, but in dogs (technically wolves if you want to nerd about taxonomy) that's clearly a limiting factor.

And dogs are really handy to understand ring species. Geography, morphology, behaviors or other factors can all lead to ring species, the idea being that they can indeed interbreed, though not always between individuals, especially those at the extremes of the species spectrum.

 

[Lloyd]

I prefer races

 

[GlassRose]

From a 'what sounds more natural' point of view, race, but when talking about 'what's technically correct', species.

 

[BlackKnightX]

For monsters that breed with humans like the goblins it actually depends. Most stories have human and goblin relations result in 100% goblin offspring in which case they aren't really interbreeding and more using the member of the other species like some kind of biological breeding chamber for their own species. If this is the case they still wouldn't be the same species. If the offspring end sup being half goblin and half human though then they would be one species.

Yep. That's why I mentioned first thing that it's a bit tricky in fantasy because there are magic and supernatural and stuff. The laws of the universe can also be completely different from our world. But if you wanna go by the science of our world, it would be as I've described.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Thanks for all your answer, I tend to prefer to read race instead of species, so I think I will stay with race, except if I have a science part in my story where I need to use the right word.

 

[TheKillingAlice]

I tend to use races for humanoids/creatures that can communicate and have a culture, and species for creatures.
'-'

X

Same here. Or well, as @BlackKnightX also explained it, but I read up on the best fitting term ages ago and, for example, since most races in my books could interbreed, they must be of the same species, but are indeed of different races (for example Humans, Vampires and Mermaids).
I also don't truly care about any 21. century political connotations and whims, I just want my story to make the most sense it can.

 

[JHarp]

To introduce a third force. Especially when I run D&D or write my own stories, I actually prefer the terms 'ancestry' and 'heritage'.

I find race and species as words introduce specific perspectives into readers which feels counter intuitive. Especially considering what we usually designate as 'race' is entirely perceptual anyway, think of all the time people, because of one or two traits are deemed 'alien' even in their hometown, all because of a single genetic mutation, even while they are 'pure blooded' in essence.

I also find a lot more of the fantasy/medieval stories would be more accurate if you had people tracking ancestry and 'family trees' rather than dividing things by other thin definitions.

Considering, even biologically no 'race' or group, even in fantasy are the same people, think of all the variants of elves or dwarves, it would be unreasonable to assume that with so many different groups, that the potluck isn't already polluted to heck and back if they are capable of 'interspecies' things. You aren't even likely to have such distinguished groups as shown in fantasy at times if an entire population center for multiple generations was completely open to interspecies acts.

You might as well be placing each race on a wheel and using 1-100 for each to display how much a person has to each heritage, since people for some reason seem to just stop at half races, when in the real world people actively present the fact they are a quarter of a nationality at times.

 

[CarburetorThompson]

I prefer races. The F1 one they just had in Vegas was great

 

[Tyranomaster]

They have specific connotations.

Races implies genetic similarity to the level of being able to breed without an issue. We specifically use it to refer to other humans on earth. The other term is breeds (such as dogs or horses), this is why half-dwarves or half-elves are sometimes referred derogatorily as half-breeds, implying less than human meaning.

Species doesn't hold this. A spotted hyena and an emu are different species. There is no relation. A horse and a donkey also fit this, and they can breed, but their offspring are very specifically different than either parent due to genetic drift.

Ultimately, it's a matter of how similar you want them to be. If you use the word race, it implies they could reproduce with each other. Species doesn't mean they can't reproduce, but implies that, at the very least, it's highly unusual. Species also gives you the author the freedom to say that they cannot reproduce across species.

 

[ChrisLensman]

I don't care and I don't think anyone who takes umbrage with the word "races" is someone you should be trying to appeal to.

 

[TsumiHokiro]

After the feedback I got from the little chicken, I started to edit some of my chapters and one things I changed was races into species, I know that "species" is the right word to use, but still, I think races suit better, maybe due to the number of books who use it, like tolkien for exemple.


So, which one do you prefer read/use? Races or Species?

Keep to races. Races are people who can reproduce between themselves. Species cannot reproduce between themselves...
I think you took it the wrong way my feedback. It was confusing because you put "different races" and then you name everyone together into what seems to be one huge race group, whereas you meant to say that each one of those was to be a different human race...
I never meant to tell you to be politically correct. That is not something I would require of a novel that is not trying to discuss the differences between what a "species" and a "race" is.

People who are assuming that was what I meant have not read my comment and have not asked for clarification of what my comment meant. Therefore, I would surely like for people not to believe I was being a purist and was complaining about how @Sleds were making what you people here, a few, think is what was my point. Go and read my review before you assume things that I have not said.

 

[ConansWitchBaby]

Ya'll seem to ignore the most blatantly obvious evidence for this. Neanderthal and Homosapien crossbreeding. Both different species. Both equal at fucking and popping out kids.

 

[TsumiHokiro]

Ya'll seem to ignore the most blatantly obvious evidence for this. Neanderthal and Homosapien crossbreeding. Both different species. Both equal at fucking and popping out kids.

True, some species do reproduce, and make fertile descendants. Plants be the greatest of them all, therefore making it mote the point of trying to delimitate the definition of species by "cannot reproduce" and "produce fertile descendants."

 

[Prince_Azmiran_Myrian]

Ya'll seem to ignore the most blatantly obvious evidence for this. Neanderthal and Homosapien crossbreeding. Both different species. Both equal at fucking and popping out kids.

I'll do you one better: Neanderthals never existed.
But you're right about the categorization aspect.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Keep to races. Races are people who can reproduce between themselves. Species cannot reproduce between themselves...
I think you took it the wrong way my feedback. It was confusing because you put "different races" and then you name everyone together into what seems to be one huge race group, whereas you meant to say that each one of those was to be a different human race...
I never meant to tell you to be politically correct. That is not something I would require of a novel that is not trying to discuss the differences between what a "species" and a "race" is.

People who are assuming that was what I meant have not read my comment and have not asked for clarification of what my comment meant. Therefore, I would surely like for people not to believe I was being a purist and was complaining about how @Sleds were making what you people here, a few, think is what was my point. Go and read my review before you assume things that I have not said.

I understand that, is just when I see it, I though to myself that races wasn't the correct word and started to change all into species and then I started to ask myself that question. If you take a look at the first post, I didn't said you tell me to change it, I said I started to edit my story after your feedback and one thing I changed is that.

 

[TsumiHokiro]

I understand that, is just when I see it, I though to myself that races wasn't the correct word and started to change all into species and then I started to ask myself that question. If you take a look at the first post, I didn't said you tell me to change it, I said I started to edit my story after your feedback and one thing I changed is that.

It's OK. I was just saying because it seems some have assumed I was telling you to change it. I quoted your message to let you know of my answer and my opinion on the matter. I'm not accusing you of anything that you have not said. People should be aware of what they have said. Don't feel guilt for things you have not said.

If you desire to change, change. Just understand that I know how difficult it can be to choose between the words "Race" and "Species", and that it is futile, most of the time at least, to look for real constructive dialogue on this theme. The word "Race" has pretty much established itself with in literature to mean so many things that unless you want to make a text discussing the formal differences between the words "Race" and "Species" are, there is little to be gained from a change.

A general theme fantasy novel should not be so worried about the correctness of the word, and therefore you should just use whichever word you feel suits best the needs of your universe. If there ever comes a time when you might need to use the other word, don't feel shy to use it as well. You can always define in-universe what each word means, since it's very hard, even out-universe, to come with a very clear accepted definition of what "Species" and "Race" means.