Questions.

[asdf123456789]

Hi, I just received a roast from the esteemed Tempokai and it's clear I have a lot to fix.

Not surprising though and being a newbie writer I got a lot of questions.

I was initially going to post this in reply to her roast but then I realized it might be a bit inappropriate to ask it there so I might as well ask it here.

Also sorry in advance but seeing how inexperienced I am, I would like to ask some questions.


While I'm extremely embarrassed after the roast I still would like to encourage you to check it out before you try to respond to this thread.

I think it might be helpful to read her roast of my novel before answering my questions as they would give a more in-depth understanding of what I'm doing wrong, etc.

Link: https://forum.scribblehub.com/threa...sts-for-the-fearless.21096/page-4#post-486021







In the Logos Section.

One critique was the lack of logic in many places and my "just go with the flow" type of writing. And I agree, I mean that is exactly how I played it after all.

1. How many chapters would be too long before you explain something?

I do have explanations for some things prepared and I was planning on writing them eventually but like is there a thing as waiting too long to explain something?


2. How do you introduce information into the world without actually making an info dump?

Like do you try to introduce the bare minimum at the moment the reader needs?

3. How you write in the POV of your character?

Ultimately the character I'm writing 99% of the time is completely different for me.

My reactions would not line up with theirs most probably.

Even for things like something tragic where our reactions would probably be something like crying, it's hard to write that if you've never experienced something like and if you did you don't remember it all too well.

3.5 So do you overcome this hurdle?

I mean my answer to this dilemma was simply research which I suppose falls into another part of your critique( my lack of it specifically) but at the same time I feel like that it's never actually good.

4. Is it something that comes with time and experience? Or is there another thing I don't understand?


5. Also for a synopsis, I think I misunderstood the purpose of that. I understand it functions like a hook(I understand I did a poor job at this) but is it not also supposed to act like a summary for the entire scope of your book?

6 How to create a functioning world?

I mean it's very hard.

It has to make logical sense both from the perspective of incentives, the power structure, etc.

I mean how do you even imagine that?

I got tidbits of ideas here and there but I seem to be unable to fully conceptualize one to the degree that I know I need.

I know modeling after the real world is a strategy but at the same time, I don't want to rip everything from there... after all my book is fiction and it seems wrong to do so. I mean that's the entire point of fiction after all creating a meaningful fictional world with meaningful characters and an interesting plot.

Are there any ideas or is the solution simply to think harder and read other stuff until you get inspired enough to make it good?

7. Also Uh I think one of the biggest issues is that I'm not well acquainted with Xinxia trends. I've read plenty of novels that are Xinxia but it seems I didn't learn anything about this very xD. So ahem how do I start?

If you wasted the time to answer my questions, Thanks, it is greatly appreciated!

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Hi, I just received a roast from the esteemed Tempokai and it's clear I have a lot to fix.

Not surprising though and being a newbie writer I got a lot of questions.

I was initially going to post this in reply to her roast but then I realized it might be a bit inappropriate to ask it there so I might as well ask it here.

Also sorry in advance but seeing how inexperienced I am, I would like to ask some questions.


While I'm extremely embarrassed after the roast I still would like to encourage you to check it out before you try to respond to this thread.

I think it might be helpful to read her roast of my novel before answering my questions as they would give a more in-depth understanding of what I'm doing wrong, etc.

Link: https://forum.scribblehub.com/threa...sts-for-the-fearless.21096/page-4#post-486021







In the Logos Section.

One critique was the lack of logic in many places and my "just go with the flow" type of writing. And I agree, I mean that is exactly how I played it after all.

1. How many chapters would be too long before you explain something?

I do have explanations for some things prepared and I was planning on writing them eventually but like is there a thing as waiting too long to explain something?

This depends on how long your chapters are in terms of word count. A lot of readers hate to read chapter after chapter of words with nothing much happening, see? There is no definitive number of chapters of when you would reveal all the secrets you planned to write in your world, but it is always recommended to give 'tidbits' of it in your chapters, so the readers can eventually get to the 'big picture.'

2. How do you introduce information into the world without actually making an info dump?

I show it through character dialogues. Again, you can avoid info dump by giving 'tidbits' or 'trickle down' the information you want to tell your readers. Don't throw it all in one go.

Like do you try to introduce the bare minimum at the moment the reader needs?

My experience? I only write what is necessary. If a scene calls for a duel about magic, I only reveal what rules are needed to establish the setting.

3. How you write in the POV of your character?

Ultimately the character I'm writing 99% of the time is completely different for me.

My reactions would not line up with theirs most probably.

Yes, but it is still possible. If you're writing about someone who suffers from amnesia, and you never suffered from one, then by all means, do an extensive research on people suffering from amnesia. There are lots of resources for different kinds of people online.

Even for things like something tragic where our reactions would probably be something like crying, it's hard to write that if you've never experienced something like and if you did you don't remember it all too well.

Research.

3.5 So do you overcome this hurdle?

I mean my answer to this dilemma was simply research which I suppose falls into another part of your critique( my lack of it specifically) but at the same time I feel like that it's never actually good.

You mean your question in number 3? Research. Extensive research. I did this in my own work and my character who has amnesia was not questioned by readers. Another is the writer of Red Badge of Courage. His novel is cited as one of the best examples of US Civil War novels, yet the author hasn't experienced soldiery nor march into one of US Civil War's battlefields.

4. Is it something that comes with time and experience? Or is there another thing I don't understand?

What is? Improvement? Definitely yes. Feedbacks like what Tempokai gave you are just 'reference points' in which you should improve your writing, though take care as well not to fall to just 'pleasing' people with your work. It's a balance between 'developing' and 'writing your style'.

5. Also for a synopsis, I think I misunderstood the purpose of that. I understand it functions like a hook(I understand I did a poor job at this) but is it not also supposed to act like a summary for the entire scope of your book?

Synopsis is just a hook designed to tell your potential readers to pick your work. Imagine, if they already know the end, then what's the purpose of picking it up and reading the details?

6 How to create a functioning world?

I mean it's very hard.

It has to make logical sense both from the perspective of incentives, the power structure, etc.

I mean how do you even imagine that?

I got tidbits of ideas here and there but I seem to be unable to fully conceptualize one to the degree that I know I need.

I know modeling after the real world is a strategy but at the same time, I don't want to rip everything from there... after all my book is fiction and it seems wrong to do so. I mean that's the entire point of fiction after all creating a meaningful fictional world with meaningful characters and an interesting plot.

Are there any ideas or is the solution simply to think harder and read other stuff until you get inspired enough to make it good?

Functioning world? Well you definitely have to apply the rules of the world you're writing. It's quite ironic to make rules for your setting and gave exceptions to your character because he/she is the hero. And with a functioning world comes the cause/effect side of things, like for every action your hero did, there surely will be effects of the world he/she is in. Many starting authors tend to forget this latter part as they commonly focus on the action/awesome side of things.

If you plan to write an extensive, functioning world, then you'll definitely need to write your rules down. Keeping it in your head would confuse you, or worse, forget some crucial aspects of that world you set.

7. Also Uh I think one of the biggest issues is that I'm not well acquainted with Xinxia trends. I've read plenty of novels that are Xinxia but it seems I didn't learn anything about this very xD. So ahem how do I start?

If you aren't acquainted with xianxia, then we go back to answer number 3: research. Do your extensive research. Take note on the aspects of typical xianxia, like how does the story progress? If something like scene A happens, what is the common result? Those kinds of things.

In conclusion, @Tempokai can give the best, based advice here in the forum, but do remember that he's still human and capable of biases. My recommendation to you is to have your own goals/directions in writing your work, and keep what applies. It'll help you develop your novel, while at the same time, keep your own style so it won't be just another xianxia photocopy that is currently saturating the web novel space.

 

[Empress_Omnii]

How many chapters would be too long before you explain something?

Don't worry too much about how long, it will often be better to have a Chekhov's gun set up for a long time than a significant thing to be explained.
Try and introduce this information in lulls in the story, make sure to develop and explain this stuff when their isn't action. If you feel that you don't have time to introduce anything, try and slow down the action.
Even still, try to exclusively focus on information relevant to the protagonist, you don't need to add infodumps about how the world functions. Instead show the world doing its things and readers will be able to come to their own conclusion.
For example, after a big fight or event. You will often want everything to go back to a calm, during this introduce characters or conversations. Don't explicitly state things to come, or have them talk about how the world functions. They live in the world, and as such, won't converse about it. Let the reader learn, and if they seem confused, add more details until to fill in the gaps in their understanding.

I've got a headache and am writing on mobile, hopefully this makes a bit of sense... even if it only answers the first couple questions.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

One critique was the lack of logic in many places and my "just go with the flow" type of writing. And I agree, I mean that is exactly how I played it after all.

1. How many chapters would be too long before you explain something?

Depends on how important the explanation is to understanding/enjoying the story. There can be no hard and fast rule here, as it may be different every time.

2. How do you introduce information into the world without actually making an info dump?

The best way is usually through character dialogue, either between characters or in an internal monologue of the MC.
If you're doing comedy, you have more options - Douglas Adams was a master of this in the Hitchhiker's Guide books - would sometimes take a whole chapter to world build, for comic effect. But for serious stories, it is best to have characters discussing it, unless the MC is a researcher of some sort - then they might stumble on a journal explaining the important information.

Which comes to a bigger point - how important is this information to the story? If it is critical, then dialogue is the best way to do it. If not, then just have bits and pieces filter in through background incidents.

Like do you try to introduce the bare minimum at the moment the reader needs?

3. How you write in the POV of your character?

If you're writing in first person, then this is critical - and one of the biggest stumbling blocks; you have to be able to get into the mindset of the character. Decades of role-playing games have helped me with this one, as can just acting lessons or hanging around with theater people.

If you're writing in third person, then you really don't have to worry about the point of view - though you may have a defined character for your narrator but that is a different issue.

4. Is it something that comes with time and experience? Or is there another thing I don't understand?

Probably but again, there is no hard and fast rule. And you may not have to worry about it if you're working in third person.

5. Also for a synopsis, I think I misunderstood the purpose of that. I understand it functions like a hook(I understand I did a poor job at this) but is it not also supposed to act like a summary for the entire scope of your book?

It can be. I use them for a "sales pitch" and a teaser: Set up some expectations, but don't deliver too much. For one story, I just used a bit of dialogue from the end of the first chapter.

6 How to create a functioning world?

I mean it's very hard.

It has to make logical sense both from the perspective of incentives, the power structure, etc.

I mean how do you even imagine that?

I got tidbits of ideas here and there but I seem to be unable to fully conceptualize one to the degree that I know I need.

I know modeling after the real world is a strategy but at the same time, I don't want to rip everything from there... after all my book is fiction and it seems wrong to do so. I mean that's the entire point of fiction after all creating a meaningful fictional world with meaningful characters and an interesting plot.

Are there any ideas or is the solution simply to think harder and read other stuff until you get inspired enough to make it good?

Practice, really. And read authors who are really good at it, like Tolkien (though maybe don't go as far into the reeds as he did; he CREATED the Elvish language, and his essays on "Fairyland" sound like he had actually been there...) or Robert Jordan or anyone else who you believe does it well and see how they did it.
Some will write a "world bible" that they may add into the final work as a series of appendices and forwards (as Tolkien did), others just never share this or only do if they make their world shared with other authors to explore.

7. Also Uh I think one of the biggest issues is that I'm not well acquainted with Xinxia trends. I've read plenty of novels that are Xinxia but it seems I didn't learn anything about this very xD. So ahem how do I start?

If you wasted the time to answer my questions, Thanks, it is greatly appreciated!

I am tempted to ask "if you're not familiar with the genre, why write in it?" but I remember that I have worked with Noir, Romance and Westerns just to see if I can... :D

 

[Puji-Maki]

That's why Tempokai is the goat of novel reviews here in the forum! See, he makes you a better writer. Anyway, keep writing and you'll get more readers.

 

[beast_regards]

Hi, I just received a roast from the esteemed Tempokai and it's clear I have a lot to fix.

Yes, that's what the Internet does.

As long as it doesn't come with 1* you could still move on.

1. How many chapters would be too long before you explain something?

Either gradually, or never (outside the character relevant dialogue)

Gradually is where the protagonist (or the character whose perspective we follow at the given moment) knows the answer, but the readers do not. Reading a two or three chapters, I suspect you actually do understand this concept already, you just don't know it yet, and your wording is awkward and strange, like you have a general idea, but not the experience to pull it off.

In this case, narration mentions in passing something relevant to the narrative, but doesn't dwell on it further.

2. How do you introduce information into the world without actually making an info dump?

Like do you try to introduce the bare minimum at the moment the reader needs?

Never create a chapter that explains the setting to the readers.

If the protagonist doesn't know something, he asks someone and hopefully gets the answer.

If he knows the answer already, it is mentioned in the passing.

3. How you write in the POV of your character?

Ultimately the character I'm writing 99% of the time is completely different for me.

My reactions would not line up with theirs most probably.

Even for things like something tragic where our reactions would probably be something like crying, it's hard to write that if you've never experienced something like and if you did you don't remember it all too well.

I don't quite understand what's the problem is.

Your story is, as far I could tell, the 3rd person omniscient kind of narration.

It is perhaps a little confusing whether it does focus on the single characters or not, but there is nothing inherently bad about this kind of narration. The vast majority of the novels are written this way. Of course, it is the narration which is most likely going to get the "show not tell" complaint, but that isn't that much of the issue as you think. It pretty much equals to complaining getting wet after diving into the pool.

4. Is it something that comes with time and experience? Or is there another thing I don't understand?

Yes, it is something you would get with experience, as there isn't any universally correct approach to storytelling.

Your narration feels a little clunky, but otherwise, I don't see any problem, other than a perhaps a lack of experience. My personal assumption is that you either don't read novels at all, not read them in English, or only read the fan translations of the Japanese or Chinese novels (alternatively, your novel might be translation in itself).

5. Also for a synopsis, I think I misunderstood the purpose of that. I understand it functions like a hook(I understand I did a poor job at this) but is it not also supposed to act like a summary for the entire scope of your book?

Synopsis is ... well, difficult for web novels.

Normally, the synopsis is the hook, something you write at the back-cover of your book to get the attention of the person randomly browsing the shelf. In such a case, it shouldn't involve spoilers, because, well, you want people to buy that book.

Web novels are different, because the readers aren't paying for the book in advance, and thus there isn't any initial investment in your work in general while there is a massive competition, thus web novel's synopsis often involve spoilers to draw the interest of the reader (and to prevent downvoting later on)

In simple terms, the traditionally published novels are often bait and switch because you have to pay for the book in advance. The web novels are rarely bait and switch, because the readers don't pay in advance.

6 How to create a functioning world?

That's very hard to explain...

It's about being believable.

The "functioning world" is the smart way of saying that the readers believes that the world like described within your story could really exist.

 

[Lysander_Works]

1. How many chapters would be too long before you explain something?

I do have explanations for some things prepared and I was planning on writing them eventually but like is there a thing as waiting too long to explain something?

It depends on the immediate significance of the element for which you want to explain. Take a magic system for example. You would need your readers to understand how this magic system works, but if you introduce it all in one big block, that is considered info dumping. However, there is still the minimum amount needed to be delivered as soon as possible. Therefore, your best choice is to explain by example over time.

You start with a short baseline (still on the example). Explain basic stats and rules, lead with a small battle/skirmish, and when the next element is ready to be introduced, begin with an encounter that warrants the explanation of the next segment (explanation) to that same system ~ an amendment to information that is.

Sometimes you may even have it set so that one entire understanding is merely a facade for a totally different system, which might be delivered as a plot twist and cliff hanger. The point is, you have to know where to split every moment up and balance it for impact. This often comes with direct experience, so explaining it alone won't do it justice.

2. How do you introduce information into the world without actually making an info dump?

Refer to my above point.

3. How you write in the POV of your character?

Ultimately the character I'm writing 99% of the time is completely different for me.

There are various methods that work differently for people. I only have one method that works for me, and I shall summarize it, but keep in mind it won't work for everyone. Consider this question better served as a poll that people can add options to.

> Even if the character is different from your actual personality, it is best to immersify thy self into their own experiences and peripherals. Imagine what they would be sensing and feeling, and why. Go as far as to envision how they would think about something differently than you. It is often difficult to separate different states of logic between yourself and another, but spending time in this imaginary bubble will help.

3.5 So do you overcome this hurdle?

I mean my answer to this dilemma was simply research which I suppose falls into another part of your critique( my lack of it specifically) but at the same time I feel like that it's never actually good.

The only research you can do on portraying characters, is reading books that do it well. Yes, the whole book, or most of it at least. Even though I myself am one who now writes 93% of the time and reads 6% of the time, I used to start off on the opposite. I can safely say I've read my fair share of novels, and went on being inspired by them. There are forums that suggest some good ones.

4. Is it something that comes with time and experience? Or is there another thing I don't understand?

Mostly time and experience. The only other elements that could be missing (elements of great import) are inspiration and creative energy. I have published about half of what I've actually written, and that's because the other half that never made the cut was 'trash.' The reason wasn't solely a lack of experience, but a lack of desire to put my soul into it. I just didn't care that much. To me, the works were just writing practice in the end.

But when you bump into an idea you care about with all heart, soul, and desire, the rest should come to you naturally. You should find yourself dying to write out scripts, design character arcs and alternate angles, world building systems, historical connections, theme connections, and so on. Yes, this still takes time anyway, but it does not just happen because someone forces it to. The Leray Series I wrote was based on a unique magic system, and from there, I spawned hundreds of possible side/future stories and plots using its endless potential. I don't write on it any further for reasons I won't get into right now, but I got 19 KDP-length novels out of it. Not saying you need that quantity, but it should add into your quality as well.

5. Also for a synopsis, I think I misunderstood the purpose of that. I understand it functions like a hook(I understand I did a poor job at this) but is it not also supposed to act like a summary for the entire scope of your book?

A synopsis is similar to being a summary and a hook for the entire book, but made in such a way where nothing major is spoiled, the summary cutting off with intrigue and mystery at the end of it. I'm actually not the best at these either and often find myself redoing synopsis over and over with time. Best to look at examples if you can.

6 How to create a functioning world?

I mean it's very hard.

It has to make logical sense both from the perspective of incentives, the power structure, etc.

I mean how do you even imagine that?

I got tidbits of ideas here and there but I seem to be unable to fully conceptualize one to the degree that I know I need.

I know modeling after the real world is a strategy but at the same time, I don't want to rip everything from there... after all my book is fiction and it seems wrong to do so. I mean that's the entire point of fiction after all creating a meaningful fictional world with meaningful characters and an interesting plot.

Are there any ideas or is the solution simply to think harder and read other stuff until you get inspired enough to make it good?

There is a fundamental difference between ripping off an idea you like, and being inspired by that idea. The workaround for this usually comes in the form of, taking what you like, and making alterations here and there, until it becomes something unique only to yourself. Generally it is best if you incorporate various elemental sources of inspiration rather than a specific story. You might, for example, take many separate elements from various movies, video games, books, and other material, and alter how they would all function in your world. It is possible to still attempt this and still end up with something that isn't randomized enough to tell itself apart from an original work. Fans will be more than eager to point out any resemblance they see.

What kind of world are you trying to create? Don't think about it as if it were work you had to do. Imagine yourself inside of this world, imagine, envision, and daydream about every tiny detail, as if you were already there as a character or an observer. Practice with your imagination if you must. Some scenes take weeks to develop in the mind.

I also recommend, if you want to try it out, creating a World Anvil account, and creating some dummy articles and poke around there, as a demo of course (free account lets you generate up to 75). The reason I recommend this is because it provides a baseline foundation of examples for how to worldbuild from the ground up. When you generate an article about a location, it will ask you to become more specific about the landscape, it's population, its history, its contestants if a war is upon it, etc. By doing this, it primes the mind to ask these questions later to ourselves (assuming we have not learned it already) when coming up with virtually anything. The extra details are important because they help create a better scene. Just make sure everything wraps together in the end.

7. Also Uh I think one of the biggest issues is that I'm not well acquainted with Xinxia trends. I've read plenty of novels that are Xinxia but it seems I didn't learn anything about this very xD. So ahem how do I start?

If you wasted the time to answer my questions, Thanks, it is greatly appreciated!

I've never heard of Xinxia, so I cannot answer the final question. Sorry.