Postmodern condition in fantasy world

[Deleted member 76176]

I've been wondering, have there been any stories that tried to replicate and examine the postmodern conditions in the context of a fantasy world? In particular, what if we introduce symptoms of postmodernity in a medieval Europe setting with magic?

I realize concepts such as simulacra and poststructural ideas wouldn't quite make sense; however, one that I can see easily being achievable is the loss of grand narrative. In real life, the loss had been due to two subsequent world wars and communism being the last grand narrative that fell after the fall of the USSR—in this new world, the reason can be religion. Precisely what redditor Nietzsche had been fearing. The dominant religion had been proven false. The heroes, saints, and holy conquest—of human superiority—the foundations of belief and reason crumbled. What remained after wars devoid of any prior enlightenment was pure snobbery.

This is, however, just an example I am using to illustrate my point. Do you have any stories that explore similar circumstances? Or you think it is worth writing a story about.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Poopity-scoop.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

Poopity-scoop.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Scoopity-poop.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Closest I've seen were post-apocalyptic fantasy stories like Brooks's Shannara cycle (Sword of Shannara, etc.), or the Change cycle (Ariel: A Book of the Change, Elegy Beach). Never really tried writing any.

 

[Tempokai]

Isn't every grimdark fantasy story like that? Berserk for example, and so on, so forth with dozen of them in RR or Kindle

 

[beast_regards]

Just no...

The modern society has less to do with communism (or any other 20th century ideology) and more with the impact of Renaissance along with the societal shift caused by the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution wasn't only about steam engines, it was about society changing from the ground up, and before then, the Renaissance wasn't really refusing religion as much as returning to the idealized golden times of the Roman Empire (with weren't that golden when they were around)

All of this happened long before the Marx or Lenin has been born, and a whole modern history and politics is another can of worms we couldn't open on the site where political discussion is frowned upon.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

Isn't every grimdark fantasy story like that? Berserk for example, and so on, so forth with dozen of them in RR or Kindle

I've not read berserk, so I can't comment. But for most grim dark stories I've read, not really.

Just no...

The modern society has less to do with communism (or any other 20th century ideology) and more with the impact of Renaissance along with the societal shift caused by the industrial revolution. The industrial revolution wasn't only about steam engines, it was about society changing from the ground up, and before then, the Renaissance wasn't really refusing religion as much as returning to the idealized golden times of the Roman Empire (with weren't that golden when they were around)

All of this happened long before the Marx or Lenin has been born, and a whole modern history and politics is another can of worms we couldn't open on the site where political discussion is frowned upon.

I am not really sure how that contradicts me.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I've not read berserk, so I can't comment. But for most grim dark stories I've read, not really.

I will bite you.

 

[MotherofAThousandYoung]

Chapter 6118 of Martial God Asura. It's very deeply hidden in the subcontext tho so you'll have to read everything before that chapter to understand the underlying message.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Chapter 6118 of Martial God Asura. It's very deeply hidden in the subcontext tho so you'll have to read everything before that chapter to understand the underlying message.

?

 

[Deleted member 76176]

Chapter 6118 of Martial God Asura. It's very deeply hidden in the subcontext tho so you'll have to read everything before that chapter to understand the underlying message.

I really though you were joking. Chapter 6118 exists.

 

[Viator]

You won't find too much on this topic as, typically fantasy is written as a kind of escapism for modern problems. It is easy to avoid simply by writing that God does exist in a tangible manor within the world. In magic worlds such things often go hand in hand as divinity gets wrapped up in how we see magic. There is an aspect of faith and wonder often written into magic; as to write it too close to the scientific elements and physics takes from the elements of the fantastic the reader is searching for. Consciously, or unconsciously the increased interest in Fantasy works worldwide could be argued to be a direct human response to the postmodern problem of losing the 'grand narrative' that you spoke of. When the grand myths that were our foundations no longer have apparant substance we weave our own comforts in known illusions. The reason why you don't see what you are asking for so much, could be because fantasy has become the bandaid to the larger issue until the solution is found. Creating one could be seen as almost antithetical to the process, and summarily be unconsciously rejected by readers.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

You won't find too much on this topic as, typically fantasy is written as a kind of escapism for modern problems. It is easy to avoid simply by writing that God does exist in a tangible manor within the world. In magic worlds such things often go hand in hand as divinity gets wrapped up in how we see magic. There is an aspect of faith and wonder often written into magic; as to write it too close to the scientific elements and physics takes from the elements of the fantastic the reader is searching for. Consciously, or unconsciously the increased interest in Fantasy works worldwide could be argued to be a direct human response to the postmodern problem of losing the 'grand narrative' that you spoke of. When the grand myths that were our foundations no longer have apparant substance we weave our own comforts in known illusions. The reason why you don't see what you are asking for so much, could be because fantasy has become the bandaid to the larger issue until the solution is found. Creating one could be seen as almost antithetical to the process, and summarily be unconsciously rejected by readers.

That is correct. Hiroki Azuma has referred to otakus as a postmodern creature—"database animals"—based on otaku's desire for a database of settings rather than the narrative meaning or grand narrative the work represents itself, which can also be said to separate high culture from subcultures like anime and manga. The animal here is Kojeve's idea of western consumerist society after the end of history (world war). Unsurprisingly, I suspect the trend of modern isekai is also a consequence of the want for grand nonnarrative (Azuma's terminology). Which is to say, genre fiction falls in similar boat.

However, I also doubt scuh works do not exist at all.

 

[Viator]

That is correct. Hiroki Azuma has referred to otakus as a postmodern creature—"database animals"—based on otaku's desire for a database of settings rather than the narrative meaning or grand narrative the work represents itself, which can also be said to separate high culture from subcultures like anime and manga. The animal here is Kojeve's idea of western consumerist society after the end of history (world war). Unsurprisingly, I suspect the trend of modern isekai is also a consequence of the want for grand nonnarrative (Azuma's terminology).

However, I also doubt similar works do not exist at all.

The closest I can currently think of, although it does not exactly fit your critera of really exploring the question is an old series called Incarnations of Immortality by pierce Anthony. Sort of a comedic tongue in cheek fantasy that takes place in the modern world except science grew along with magic. (So you have competing airlines with Magic carpet companies) the books deal with the various incarnation (Death, Time, Fate, War, Nature, Evil, and Good) as they are replaced by mortal agents. Most of the series is about the other incarnations resisting Satan's (Evil) plans.

Spoiler: Spoilers for plot

He is attempting to stop a humanity wide vote to replace God (Good) as the current God is ineffectual because he can't stop looking at himself in the mirror.

it may have some minor elements you are looking for but isn't really the focus. I haven't read the series in years.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

The closest I can currently think of, although it does not exactly fit your critera of really exploring the question is an old series called Incarnations of Immortality by pierce Anthony. Sort of a comedic tongue in cheek fantasy that takes place in the modern world except science grew along with magic. (So you have competing airlines with Magic carpet companies) the books deal with the various incarnation (Death, Time, Fate, War, Nature, Evil, and Good) as they are replaced by mortal agents. Most of the series is about the other incarnations resisting Satan's (Evil) plans.

Spoiler: Spoilers for plot

He is attempting to stop a humanity wide vote to replace God (Good) as the current God is ineffectual because he can't stop looking at himself in the mirror.

it may have some minor elements you are looking for but isn't really the focus. I haven't read the series in years.

Regardless, the novel seems interesting. I will give it a read, thanks!

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Regardless, the novel seems interesting. I will give it a read, thanks!

It's a series. Most of the books are really good, of the seven I've read, first one was probably the best.

• On a Pale Horse (1983) - Death
• Bearing an Hourglass (1984) - Time
• With a Tangled Skein (1985) - Fate (three aspects/incarnations in one)
• Wielding a Red Sword (1986) - War
• Being a Green Mother (1987) - Nature
• For Love of Evil (1988) - Evil; has a lot of time jumps but some of the best single moments the author's done too, IMO.
• And Eternity (1990) - God
• Under a Velvet Cloak (2007) - Night

I hadn't known about the last one until I looked it up just now. Wielding a Red Sword felt a little disappointing to me. And Eternity comes the closest to what you're looking for, I think.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

It's a series. Most of the books are really good, of the seven I've read, first one was probably the best.

• On a Pale Horse (1983) - Death
• Bearing an Hourglass (1984) - Time
• With a Tangled Skein (1985) - Fate (three aspects/incarnations in one)
• Wielding a Red Sword (1986) - War
• Being a Green Mother (1987) - Nature
• For Love of Evil (1988) - Evil; has a lot of time jumps but some of the best single moments the author's done too, IMO.
• And Eternity (1990) - God
• Under a Velvet Cloak (2007) - Night

I hadn't known about the last one until I looked it up just now. Wielding a Red Sword felt a little disappointing to me. And Eternity comes the closest to what you're looking for, I think.

Wow! Thank you so much. They look delightful.

 

[aToTeT]

I've been wondering, have there been any stories that tried to replicate and examine the postmodern conditions in the context of a fantasy world? In particular, what if we introduce symptoms of postmodernity in a medieval Europe setting with magic?

I realize concepts such as simulacra and poststructural ideas wouldn't quite make sense; however, one that I can see easily being achievable is the loss of grand narrative. In real life, the loss had been due to two subsequent world wars and communism being the last grand narrative that fell after the fall of the USSR—in this new world, the reason can be religion. Precisely what redditor Nietzsche had been fearing. The dominant religion had been proven false. The heroes, saints, and holy conquest—of human superiority—the foundations of belief and reason crumbled. What remained after wars devoid of any prior enlightenment was pure snobbery.

This is, however, just an example I am using to illustrate my point. Do you have any stories that explore similar circumstances? Or you think it is worth writing a story about.

I was immediately going to go for things like Psycho Pass, then I realised I was misunderstanding.

Redditor Nietzsche broke me for a moment, not going to lie.

Shin Sekai Yori absolutely nails everything… except the possible setting of medieval Europe. You will read the world coming undone in real time.

Ultimately, I think you will find much of postmodernism tagged in post-apocalypse, evil-religion, and generally: dystopian settings and system-is-evil settings.

There are so many such stories it’s… hard to say that any one is better or worse aligned with what you might be looking for.

For my (limited) understanding, a broken faith with the world exemplified in a person broken to point of surreality is the core aspect I see in Postmodernism. There might be and likely are many other major aspects, but not knowing them, I suggest:

Let’s not [Obliterate].

I’ll parrot Berserk here as well: those manga pages will absolutely shatter your mind if you stare too hard into them (that said, we will never know how it ends).

And more than anything: write it. The people are hungry (maybe, Idk, I’m not people).

Edit: Making your own meaning is something I’m deeply drawn to, but i don’t think what I’ve released qualifies yet. Maybe one day.

 

[Daitengu]

Aside from adding wish fulfillment LGBTQA;+ stuff, none that I've read.