Perception is strange

Assurbanipal_II

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Oh yeah, I'm more than aware, but they are interesting to think over. Not really to believe or to use as an ideology, but because its fun to think in the abstract.
Because I am in the mood to argue, and you seem in good faith, what is your point? Be short and concise.

That our perception of our reality is limited?
 

Gryphon

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Because I am in the mood to argue, and you seem in good faith, what is your point? Be short and concise.

That our perception of our reality is limited?
Not that its limited, more that we, with our perception, cannot view the truth of the world around us. I guess you could say, because of our perception, we have a biased perspective of the universe.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Not that its limited, more that we, with our perception, cannot view the truth of the world around us. I guess you could say, because of our perception, we have a biased perspective of the universe.
Now this is classical agnosticism and at least, more or less and give or take, 2500 years old.

Now my questions, how do you know there is a truth?

How do you know that we cannot view it?

How do you know that our perception is biased?

You say yourself that our perception is flawed, so how do you know all that? Do you presume? Do you assume? Do you believe? Or do you know?
 

Gryphon

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Now this is classical agnosticism and at least, more or less and give or take, 2500 years old.

Now my questions, how do you know there is a truth?

How do you know that we cannot view it?

How do you know that our perception is biased?

You say yourself that our perception is flawed, so how do you know all that? Do you presume? Do you assume? Do you believe? Or do you know?
I don't know if there's a truth, and in all reality, there might not be a true "truth" if you get my meaning. We could possibly view a potential truth, but that potentially involves throwing away most of our current knowledge of the world. Note how I'm using the words, potential and possible and might, a lot. This is BECAUSE of the fact I don't know the truth, much less if there even is a truth, that I use those words.

Everyone, everything, in the world has a bias. The fact we're having this discussion at all is proof of that. I have a bias towards thinking in the abstract, whether I believe it or not, and you have a bias toward debating the abstract, whether you believe it or not. Heck, I could be wrong in my assumption towards you because my only interactions with you have been you trying to argue against my points, which creates a biased image in my mind of you.

Your red and my red might be different, but we'd both say an apple is red. Is one of our views of red the true red, or is the apple being red the truth and we view the truth differently between ourselves?

If there is ONE potential truth in the world, its that everyone's version of the truth is different based on their genetics, lived experiences, relationships, and other multitudes of factors in their lives which leads us to never knowing a truth. Or maybe not. My perception is just as flawed as anyone else's after all.

I guess if there's one thing I do, I just think and let whatever we deem as the truth at the current moment, whether it be a true truth or a lie meant to act as the truth, guide me until I eventually rot.


Honestly, there's a story that I'm really wanting to write that's based off this concept, but its already at least 15+ books in my mind and I'm already writing current stuff. I've written, like, a few chapters of the story though.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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I don't know if there's a truth, and in all reality, there might not be a true "truth" if you get my meaning. We could possibly view a potential truth, but that potentially involves throwing away most of our current knowledge of the world. Note how I'm using the words, potential and possible and might, a lot. This is BECAUSE of the fact I don't know the truth, much less if there even is a truth, that I use those words.

Everyone, everything, in the world has a bias. The fact we're having this discussion at all is proof of that. I have a bias towards thinking in the abstract, whether I believe it or not, and you have a bias toward debating the abstract, whether you believe it or not. Heck, I could be wrong in my assumption towards you because my only interactions with you have been you trying to argue against my points, which creates a biased image in my mind of you.

Your red and my red might be different, but we'd both say an apple is red. Is one of our views of red the true red, or is the apple being red the truth and we view the truth differently between ourselves?

If there is ONE potential truth in the world, its that everyone's version of the truth is different based on their genetics, lived experiences, relationships, and other multitudes of factors in their lives which leads us to never knowing a truth. Or maybe not. My perception is just as flawed as anyone else's after all.

I guess if there's one thing I do, I just think and let whatever we deem as the truth at the current moment, whether it be a true truth or a lie meant to act as the truth, guide me until I eventually rot.
:blob_neutral: If you don't know it, then you failed my questions. You base your views on presumptions without the barest kind of substance that can be either true or not at the same time. Something you say yourself. You then make brave assumptions, that can be once again either correct or not. Which means they are completely useless as they lead nowhere. There is no gain in them. There is no value in such sophistry.

I recommend you Popper on this matter.
 

Gryphon

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:blob_neutral: If you don't know it, then you failed my questions. You base your views on presumptions without the barest kind of substance that can be either true or not at the same time. Something you say yourself. You then make brave assumptions, that can be once again either correct or not. Which means they are completely useless as they lead nowhere. There is no gain in them. There is no value in such sophistry.

I recommend you Popper on this matter.
Well, I mean, the whole point is we know we don't know anything, which is a nowhere cycle. You cannot answer questions which we don't know the answers to, after all. That's why I say its interesting to think about instead of something to truly stick one's ideology in.
 

TheEldritchGod

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I mean, that's kind of my point though. Your body remembers time moving slower because of your adrenaline spiking. Now apply that to a much grander scale.
IN fiction? Sure.
IN reality? No. You can't.

There are limited to how much information you can process. The more you try to process, the slower you go. You need to process more to get more to create "processing dialation" Which means you are talking quantum processing, which may or may not work. Heat is always an issue. Because information IS energy. The more information, the more energy. THERE IS AN UPPER LIMIT.

Too much energy in one place, it'll just kill an organic life form, and assuming you could get around that limitation, you eventually form a singularity.


which couldn't be further from the case cause time is a social construct based on our unique observation.
Time is a social construct in that it doesn't exist.
There is RATE OF CHANGE. There is a universal NOW.

No, perception is the right word.
Perception: our awareness of our reality through our senses
Essentially, our sense of perception, our awareness, in other words, being faulty and through that leads us to being unaware of the true state of the universe and our place in it.
UGH.
But there IS an objective universe that exists no matter how much you observe it. Even if observation changes how things are, that doesn't matter, because you are OBJECTIVELY OBSERVING. It's just another layer of objective reality. We are subjective beings in an Objective universe.




But our perception allows us to measure time as a second. As for the second thing, that reminds me of a video, I think it was V-Sauce, where he was like "Does everyone's red look the same?" Can't ever really know cause we can never see the other person's viewpoint.
So? A cesium atom still oscillates at the same speed everywhere.
 

Assurbanipal_II

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Well, I mean, the whole point is we know we don't know anything, which is a nowhere cycle. You cannot answer questions which we don't know the answers to, after all. That's why I say its interesting to think about instead of something to truly stick one's ideology in.
That is the issue, to assume "it is a nowhere cycle", "that we don't know" is a fallacy by itself. You base your entire reasoning on certain axioms without the slightest proof, from which you then start your reasoning.

That is not how logic works. You presume something to be self-evident and true that isn't at all. You basically foretake the conclusions through your faulty logic.

Instead of asking yourself whether your questions and premises are valid, you jump to there are no answers and we cannot know based on a faulty methodology.
 

Anemic_Vampire

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Does that mean that the universe is already doomed and we're too aware of our surroundings to realize our cosmic futility, or do we lack so much awareness that we fail to recognize that we truly have enough time in the universe to fix all of our current predicaments?
I can barely wake up from the bed without fumbling and falling down because I hit something with my foot. So, yeah, I'm pretty much doomed if some cosmic predicament is going to happen as you said.

Also, why are you writing a whole sci-fi monologue in this forum? You can write your novel in the main website (just kidding, I'm sorry.) And how come this whole thread sounds like a conversation that some scientists might have before doomsday arrives? I'm little concerned about this foreshadowing.
 

Gryphon

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That is the issue, to assume "it is a nowhere cycle", "that we don't know" is a fallacy by itself. You base your entire reasoning on certain axioms without the slightest proof, from which you then start your reasoning.
If I don't know something, that just means I'm lacking knowledge which I can then fill with knowledge using deduction, evidence, and reasoning. Correctly ascertaining that we don't know the full scope of our world isn't something I say because I have proof of something, its because I lack proof of me knowing something.
That is not how logic works. You presume something to be self-evident and true that isn't at all. You basically foretake the conclusions through your faulty logic.
:blob_hmm_two:Except, not really. Honestly, it seems assumptions are being made about me which honestly is just evidence further to my overall point.

My whole methodology is to use evidence to back up my views. For instance, I don't say people are biased because I think people are biased. I say people are biased because there's history and research and evidence to back up the idea that people are indeed biased through their life experiences and genetics. It's not self-evident that people are biased. There's support backed up by real life examples that people are biased. That's logic. But its also logic to know that your current logic can be proven wrong, cause there's evidence of that happening before.

I merely took that logic of people being biased and expanded it outward to a more cosmological idea; a thought experiment, not something that accurately portrays my views, but as an idea of an overall concept of humanity's propensity to believe in only what they see even if it may not be the case in the grand scheme of the universe.
Instead of asking yourself whether your questions and premises are valid, you jump to there are no answers and we cannot know based on a faulty methodology.
Again, it seems like assumptions are being made about me which doesn't in any way reflect my actual process. My methodology is to find evidence of something, and if there's evidence pointing to something, its then time to explore to see if that evidence points to a bigger, repeatable idea. At any time, with the addition of further proof, the idea can be bolstered or proven to be wrong. To be skeptical of our current understanding of reality and to be aware of missing details and the fact that we don't know everything is how logic and science can boost itself forward.

If you want proof that we don't know everything, explain to me why gravity exist? Not what it does, not its relation to time, but why it exists at all in our universe? There's no definitive answer as to why and how gravity exists, but just because we don't have an answer doesn't mean there isn't an answer out there.

Also proof that our logic can change at any time? People used to believe lobotomies were a good method for treating the mentally ill. People at the time believed that to be true, but later evidence and treatments proved them to be false. Just because we live in modern times and we're alive right now doesn't mean that some of our evidence that we gathered for certain ideas can't be wrong. We're realistically just as clueless as the people of the 30s and 40s, only we don't perform the lobotomies now cause of our understanding of our world has changed.

I think this'll be my final point right here cause I'm starting to get tired of this.

TLDR: Logic dictates that that evidence is needed to make an assumption, but there's also evidence that logic can be proven wrong, so its logical to be skeptical of current logic. That's how progress is made.
Also, why are you writing a whole sci-fi monologue in this forum? You can write your novel in the main website (just kidding, I'm sorry.) And how come this whole thread sounds like a conversation that some scientists might have before doomsday arrives? I'm little concerned about this foreshadowing.
This entire thread did kind of get out of control. Honestly didn't mean that, just wanted to put out something I was thinking about recently. Also, funnily enough, this topic literally is basically the entire plot to a Sci-Fi story I've been thinking up.
 
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ElijahRyne

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So, you know about the whole "If someone were to move at super speed, then everyone would then move in slow motion so they'd be able to perceive the world around them." Essentially, the faster you move, the more perception you need, and the slower time moves for you.

A fun fact I heard from the YouTube channel, Casual Geographic, is that the Peregrine Falcon has enhanced perception since their whole hunting strategy is dive bombing at 100 miles an hour. They need the heightened perception to steer themselves. That means, on a normal day, everything around them moves in slow motion. Time is slow to them. But it really isn't slow motion, is it? At least not to them. Our slow motion is their natural clock.

That then led me to this thought. Is our perception of reality ACTUALLY reality. We measure time by 60 seconds for every minute and 60 minutes for every hour. If our sense of perception changed by even a small amount, there would no longer be 60 seconds in a minute anymore. Everything in the world would move differently; we either wouldn't be able to completely distinguish our world accurately, or we'd be aware of every detail as it more slowly passes our senses by. How would we then measure time?

Is our sense of perception even the accurate one? Is our view of time, how fast and slow things move and our ability to recognize them, even truly reality. Is the "true time" so slow that each second that passes by for us is actually years in the cosmic scale, and we only recognize a second as a second because of our lack of accurate perception? Is "true time" so fast that the birth and death of the universe happened all in the same second but our sense of perception is so great that we can perceive all the universe had to offer us in that brief second? Does that mean that the universe is already doomed and we're too aware of our surroundings to realize our cosmic futility, or do we lack so much awareness that we fail to recognize that we truly have enough time in the universe to fix all of our current predicaments?

I know this my sound weird, and no, I'm not under the influence of anything. I've just been thinking about this for some time and wanted to share it somewhere, otherwise I'd be thinking about this concept for longer than what would probably be healthy. So...yeah.
I believe we perceive reality at our visual, auditory, touch/textile(?), etc. reaction speed. So that everything we experience is technically in the past. Of course the mind also plays a bit of a role depending on how focused it wants you to be. Personally when I am focused it tends to feel like time moves slower, I believe that is similar to most other people as well. So your perception of time is based on your reaction speeds and how focused you are. As for how I perceive the world around me, I like to go with the wise men and the elephant model for abstract things, and with a more materialistic view for more concrete things. Essentially that means I believe I can only perceive a part of the whole for abstract things, and for the things I do perceive I believe that they are material. Unless of course I am dreaming or something.

I hope that makes sense, but I am tired and can’t be bothered to proofread that or clarify anything at the moment…
 
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