NTR knee jerk

[tounokenja]

Most of the shit people claim to be NTR though is just a bit of cheating.

Real NTR, and by that I mean Netorare specifically is the LOSS of a cherished person, whether they knew the feelings of the one they are being "stolen" from or not through sex with another person.

Sometimes it's voluntary. I mean japan would love to have you believe some guy with an obscenely large penis can just warp someone's mind with stupidly good sex, and become a slave to only the largest dick and sex drive. But that's where the fantasy disconnects from reality.

Any girl who's had one of those large dicks can tell you about the initial discomfort, difficulty to orgasm from them, the pain of having their cervix rammed ("he's crushing my womb~♡♡♡”), and unless they are the kind of person who specifically enjoy pain and abuse... which is a low% of the female population globally... It's all bullshit.

Netorare is an intellectual fetish that seeks to stir up emotions in people who would otherwise be so desperate to hold on to someone, but also lack the confidence to prove and reprove their worth or to take the chance in the first place.

It's about loss, and the suffering that comes with it.

Losing that important person you want to protect or be with. The person that you trust.

Vanilla people hate NTR because they only want a happy fluffy time. They can't handle the raw emotions it could contain.

Fuck blackmail, fuck mindbreak, fuck drugs.

The really good NTR is that betrayal of love and trust and even EXPECTATION of a person's character that is cognitively dissonant from how they are at their core for being able to act in that way.

Having an established partner, having sex behind their back whether consensual or not and still sticking around ISN'T Netorare. It's just cheating.

Cuckolding also, is continuing to cheat on someone openly, causing pain, but not leaving... it's like... advanced cheating!

Netorare is only Netorare if the cheating partner is taken away from the person who has feelings for them.

 

[aattss]

NTR is just another fetish. Given, it's similar to fetishes like sissification or getting raped in that people who don't enjoy it wouldn't like if it popped up in something they were reading and people who do enjoy it probably still wouldn't want it to happen in real life outside of something like roleplay.

 

[gogo7966]

if somebody calls something degenerate that just means they watch a lot of porn about it

 

[undeadflowerboy]

I will be 100%. I am a hypocritical NTR hater.
I remember when I first read NTR it brought out this visceral reaction in me because back then i was insecure as fuck, i still am to certain degree. But for some reason, i just kept coming back, and back, and back to NTR doujins. Every time i did it, i would go to the comments, spout of about how the girl was a disgusting whore while i knew damn well i was about to go read another one.

I think the disgust, self-hate, and misogyny it brings out of me has become one of these guilty pleasures. but i hate it. It's polarizing to even think about. I mean i just fucking hate it because of how it kicks down my already fragile self-esteem when i know deep down i have no reason to even think that way, but every time I see it i have this feeling in my gut: "I know this is NTR" "Why am i even clicking it, when i know i'll close the tab out of anger after i reach the cuck page" and then i click it anyways and read. Most of the times i don't even get off to it, i just fucking read it, and even then the irritation, disappointment, self-loathing is so palpable it just ruins my day.

I ended up ranting but i hope this gives you some perspective

 

[AKnightWithaKnife]

webnovel ruined it for me. to much shity cultivation novels that stared with NTR

 

[Cipiteca396]

webnovel ruined it for me. to much shity cultivation novels that stared with NTR

You know, I've been thinking of this for a while, but I had no reason to post it anywhere. You are now that reason.

Spoiler: Actual Spoiler: In Halo Infinite

Cortana cucks herself and then kermits suicide so she won't have to be jealous of Master Chief and Weapon fighting endless hordes of baddies without her.

 

[SakeVision]

I like ntr.

Cause I don't self insert as a guy getting cucked, I'm just an audience munching on popcorn, listening to male screams of despair and female lusty moeans.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

either way, consuming ntr is unhealthy

I disagree. Self projecting and taking the ntr to heart is unhealthy. In the same vein, violent videogames don't make you violent unless you project enough to believe you need to remember not to use Russian.

I understand, however, that this is a far more simple take than it deserves. Humans are literally wired to empathize with characters in stories because we have these neat things called mirror neurons that help us bond with and manipulate each other. It's the same stuff that makes it fun to RP, or build up a pen and paper/open world game character to project into.

I think a good portion of vocal opponents of ntr have mirror neurons that work too well or they're not emotionally secure enough to understand that their partner isn't being stolen, especially in cases where rape or blackmail isn't involved. At the same time, you can trigger someone's ptsd with firecrackers or even the implication of rape in a conversation, so this is very much a "your mileage may vary" situation depending on the readers' own personal experiences.

What I take issue with is readers who will tolerate rape, slavery, torture porn, and every other morally reprehensible act committed by a protagonist, but draw the line at said "pWoTagonISTs' waMeN" sharing a bed with someone that isn't them. I find it as ridiculous as letting someone off with arson and murder but executing them for jaywalking.

But then again, I've consumed, edited, and written enough media for it to be difficult to project myself into a character's shoes without an effort of will, so it may just be that.

I found myself feeling nothing about it at all. Maybe it was because the girl’s not appealing enough? Or maybe it’s because the guy who got cucked is too wimpy for me to relate to?

Same. I don't dislike the genre, but I don't like it either. It's just another thing that exists. I only care about the story being good, the absence of blatant author tract, and properly executed plots.

as long as it's not the mc nobody will care

This is another thing that always tossed me, I guess it's further proof that some readers will project themselves so hard in the MC's place as to make themselves vulnerable, but they won't even sympathize with others.

Sometimes it's voluntary. I mean japan would love to have you believe some guy with an obscenely large penis can just warp someone's mind with stupidly good sex, and become a slave to only the largest dick and sex drive. But that's where the fantasy disconnects from reality.

Now here's an interesting aspect of ntr tied directly with Japanese xenophobia. There seems to be this great fear of a darker, more animalistic tribe of human taking what "rightfully belongs to us" that I both find hilarious and cringeworthy. Hilarious because despite holding (and often abusing) political, economic, and social power over foreigners, people in mostly homogenous cultures will both present outsiders as a superhuman threat and an inferior subset of humanity to be stepped over or exploited at every turn. The sentiment is not founded on logic, no matter how much pseudoscience they invent.

Cause I don't self insert as a guy getting cucked, I'm just an audience munching on popcorn, listening to male screams of despair and female lusty moeans.

Agreed. I'm sorry I can't write up an essay for this point... I just agree with you.

 

[Zirrboy]

I disagree. Self projecting and taking the ntr to heart is unhealthy. In the same vein, violent videogames don't make you violent unless you project enough to believe you need to remember not to use Russian.

I understand, however, that this is a far more simple take than it deserves. Humans are literally wired to empathize with characters in stories because we have these neat things called mirror neurons that help us bond with and manipulate each other. It's the same stuff that makes it fun to RP, or build up a pen and paper/open world game character to project into.

I think a good portion of vocal opponents of ntr have mirror neurons that work too well or they're not emotionally secure enough to understand that their partner isn't being stolen, especially in cases where rape or blackmail isn't involved. At the same time, you can trigger someone's ptsd with firecrackers or a even the implication of rape in a conversation, so this is very much a "your mileage may vary" situation depending on the readers' own personal experience.

What I take issue with is readers who will tolerate rape, slavery, torture porn, and every other morally reprehensible act committed by a protagonist, but draw the line at said "pWoTagonISTs' waMeN" sharing a bed with someone that isn't them. I find it as ridiculous as letting someone off with arson and murder but executing them for jaywalking.

But then again, I've consumed, edited, and written enough media for it to be difficult to project myself into a character's shoes without an effort of will, so it may just be that.

Arguing against sentiment is pointless on a personal level.
Human desires not making sense to you won't change the needs of the people in question.
The one is a vent of frustration, the other a blanket of validation about doubts regarding yourself.
And this will sound more offensive than I mean it, but overstaying in a toxic relationship to prove a point does not shed the best light on that person either.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

Arguing against sentiment is pointless on a personal level.
Human desires not making sense to you won't change the needs of the people in question.
The one is a vent of frustration, the other a blanket of validation about doubts regarding yourself.
And this will sound more offensive than I mean it, but overstaying in a toxic relationship to prove a point does not shed the best light on that person either.

Agreed, mostly, but only with people who are willing to allow their sentiments to drive or come ahead of their reason.

I understand that, for some people, it is one nanometer short of impossible to disengage or change their sentiment; these aren't the people I'm interested in reaching. There's more people that's on the fence or can be pushed closer to it than the internet lets on. People can and do change their coats all the time, even if they've worn them every day for the past few years. Ask Boruto's dad.

 

[Zirrboy]

Agreed, mostly, but only with people who are willing to allow their sentiments to drive or come ahead of their reason.

I understand that, for some people, it is one nanometer short of impossible to disengage or change their sentiment; these aren't the people I'm interested in reaching. There's more people that's on the fence or can be pushed closer to it than the internet lets on. People can and do change their coats all the time, even if they've worn them every day for the past few years. Ask Boruto's dad.

Take this as you will, but I don't think lowkey (or not) personal attacks on anyone who doesn't already share your opinion would be taken as much more than a rant, agreeable core ideas or not.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

Hilarious because despite holding (and often abusing) political, economic, and social power over foreigners, people in mostly homogenous cultures will both present outsiders as a superhuman threat and an inferior subset of humanity to stepped over or exploited at every turn. The sentiment is not founded on logic, no matter how much pseudoscience they inven

This reminds me of things I've had to read about the Vietnam War. The North Vietnamese, (those under Ho Chi Minh who fought first the French and then the Americans,) were said to be terrified of westerners because on average, Europeans and Americans tended to be taller and more heavily well built. This translated to being better fighters in the North Vietnamese mind. Still, they also saw westerners as dumb brutes who were ONLY good fighters, but could be easily outsmarted. So while they thought of us as superior, we were also inferior in their eyes. They were terrified of meeting us on the battlefield, but would still charge like madmen into battle against us after getting some kind of charismatic speech from their officers.

The historically odd thing is, if you count battlefield deaths and wounded, technically, the North Vietnamese got the shit kicked out of them. Just against the Americans alone, they suffered nearly 1 million battlefield casualties, and that's not even counting the civilian population who were caught up in the fighting, whereas Americans suffered around 58,000+. Finding accurate French figures is a bit harder, but technically, the North Vietnamese won because America got tired, (and the civilian population wasn't too happy with the length of the war). So in a way, despite their weird and inconsistent double-logic, they sort of proved it despite it still being, double-logic.

Of course, none of this matters. Despite the savageness of the war, Americans are some of the most beloved people in Vietnam, which makes no sense to me, but yeah. Vietnam has one of the largest American ex-pat populations, if not the largest, besides South Korea I think. And there is a large portion of U.S. soldiers that move to Vietnam once they are discharged from service, in fact I think most U.S. expats in Vietnam are retired or discharged soldiers.

Weird thing that.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

This reminds me of things I've had to read about the Vietnam War. The North Vietnamese, (those under Ho Chi Minh who fought first the French and then the Americans,) were said to be terrified of westerners because on average, Europeans and Americans tended to be taller and more heavily well built. This translated to being better fighters in the North Vietnamese mind. Still, they also saw westerners as dumb brutes who were ONLY good fighters, but could be easily outsmarted. So while they thought of us as superior, we were also inferior in their eyes. They were terrified of meeting us on the battlefield, but would still charge like madmen into battle against us after getting some kind of charismatic speech from their officers.

The historically odd thing is, if you count battlefield deaths and wounded, technically, the North Vietnamese got the shit kicked out of them. Just against the Americans alone, they suffered nearly 1 million battlefield casualties, and that's not even counting the civilian population who were caught up in the fighting, whereas Americans suffered around 58,000+. Finding accurate French figures is a bit harder, but technically, the North Vietnamese won because America got tired, (and the civilian population wasn't too happy with the length of the war). So in a way, despite their weird and inconsistent double-logic, they sort of proved it despite it still being, double-logic.

Of course, none of this matters. Despite the savageness of the war, Americans are some of the most beloved people in Vietnam, which makes no sense to me, but yeah. Vietnam has one of the largest American ex-pat populations, if not the largest, besides South Korea I think. And there is a large portion of U.S. soldiers that move to Vietnam once they are discharged from service, in fact I think most U.S. expats in Vietnam are retired or discharged soldiers.

Weird thing that.

An interesting take and a very interesting evaluation. I don't think they proved their logic though, it's more likely that they used said logic to justify a conclusion that doesn't hold up to other, readily observable details. The difference in tech, logistics, and army composition has more to do with combat loses than inherent racial traits. Grid square removers don't really care how big you are, if you happen to be in the boom zone of a shell, you're going boom. And if you have more/better shells, and the ability to drop them more freely, more people on the other side are going to go boom than yours excepting factors like tactics, rules of engagement, and so on.

Take this as you will, but I don't think lowkey (or not) personal attacks on anyone who doesn't already share your opinion would be taken as much more than a rant, agreeable core ideas or not.

Did what I write come off as a personal attack? That wasn't my intent .

 

[greyblob]

I disagree. Self projecting and taking the ntr to heart is unhealthy. In the same vein, violent videogames don't make you violent unless you project enough to believe you need to remember not to use Russian.

this is just what i personally think: continued consumption fucks up with your head. the same goes for rape but ntr is much more vanilla and is more approchable.

i think I've already said this before in this thread but in the case of most readers it all boils down to immersion. so first, protagonist-intersted women fucking someone else. think along the lines of hearing about someone you like sleeping with someone else and seeing them in bed for yourself. readers are not told about the experience, they more or less experience it themselves.
now ntr goes a step further and breaks off the immersion. it disconnects the readers from the character and forces them to pull back. this is not exclusive to ntr though. characters being too stupid, dense, or illogical often cause the same outcome. that's why most harem isekai MCs are often quite similar: to establish and maintan that preexisting connection.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

this is just what i personally think: continued consumption fucks up with your head. the same goes for rape but ntr is much more vanilla and is more approchable.

i think I've already said this before in this thread but in the case of most readers it all boils down to immersion. so first, protagonist-intersted women fucking someone else. think along the lines of hearing about someone you like sleeping with someone else and seeing them in bed for yourself. readers are not told about the experience, they more or less experience it themselves.
now ntr goes a step further and breaks off the immersion. it disconnects the readers from the character and forces them to pull back. this is not exclusive to ntr though. characters being too stupid, dense, or illogical often cause the same outcome. that's why most harem isekai MCs are often quite similar: to establish and maintan that preexisting connection.

Hm. So the issue isn't necessarily the projection itself, but the disruption of that projection, the readers that dislike ntr in this case are only willing to project on to the MC until the ntr happens and the disgust/pain they feel is both a rejection of what they just read and a strenuous effort to break the immersion they so carefully built up.

Interesting. It's like playing Fire Emblem and enjoying the risk of permadeath, but either save scumming (or in this case, dropping the work entirely) when someone that they care about actually dies or suffers a permanent injury. I think I understand a little better, but my opinion is mostly the same.

 

[greyblob]

Hm. So the issue isn't necessarily the projection itself, but the disruption of that projection, the readers that dislike ntr in this case are only willing to project on to the MC until the ntr happens and the disgust/pain they feel is both a rejection of what they just read and a strenuous effort to break the immersion they so carefully built up.

i imagine the anger that follows (usually manifested in comments or ratings) is because they are forced to break off the immersion. and to be fair most of the ntr in novels and mangas is pointless. it's just there for shock value.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

An interesting take and a very interesting evaluation. I don't think they proved their logic though, it's more likely that they used said logic to justify a conclusion that doesn't hold up to other, readily observable details. The difference in tech, logistics, and army composition has more to do with combat loses than inherent racial traits. Grid square removers don't really care how big you are, if you happen to be in the boom zone of a shell, you're going boom. And if you have more/better shells, and the ability to drop them more freely, more people on the other side are going to go boom than yours excepting factors like tactics, rules of engagement, and so on.



Did what I write come off as a personal attack? That wasn't my intent .

Maybe you misunderstood me? I didn't say their racial traits are what decided the combat losses, I said thats how the North Vietnamese defined the differences between themselves and westerners during the war.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

i imagine the anger that follows (usually manifested in comments or ratings) is because they are forced to break off the immersion. and to be fair most of the ntr in novels and mangas is pointless. it's just there for shock value.

I'll agree with you on the point of ntr in most works being vapid trash, but people aren't forced to break off immersion any more than they are forced to hit the reset button when their unit dies in a rainy field all alone with the legendary weapon you gave them.

But for Bernadetta, I'd smash that reset button (or Divine Pulse) so damn hard.

Maybe you misunderstood me? I didn't say their racial traits are what decided the combat losses, I said thats how the North Vietnamese defined the differences between themselves and westerners during the war.

Oh, yeah. I probably did. My apologies.

 

[greyblob]

I'll agree with you on the point of ntr in most works being vapid trash, but people aren't forced to break off immersion any more than they are forced to hit the reset button when their unit dies in a rainy field all alone with the legendary weapon you gave them.

But for Bernadetta, I'd smash that reset button (or Divine Pulse) so damn hard.

again it's not conscious. it just happens. and I've never played fire emblem. turn based jrpgs are the epitome of boring. I said it

 

[Cipiteca396]

Interesting. It's like playing fire emblem and enjoying the risk of permadeath, but either save scumming (or in this case, dropping the work entirely) when someone that they care about actually dies or suffers a permanent injury.

Hey, please don't compare me to the people spreading their anti-NTR religion like that.