No, transformations aren't supposed to hurt! =P

CharlesEBrown

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We can assume magic probably handles all the undesirable drawbacks. ? But you raise a good idea - what if the transformation is some hideous experiment, without magic? I guess you contradicted me. Not all TFs are magic after all, I guess. ?
There are a lot of non-magical shape-shifters out there. Chameleon Boy (Legion of Superheroes), Changeling/Beast Boy (Teen Titans), Mystique (X-Men), various Martians (DC Comics), Skrulls (Marvel comics) all have biological/pseudoscientific mechanisms for their transformations. The movie Dog Soldiers used genetic engineering to create werewolves.
 

Zagaroth

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We can assume magic probably handles all the undesirable drawbacks. ? But you raise a good idea - what if the transformation is some hideous experiment, without magic? I guess you contradicted me. Not all TFs are magic after all, I guess. ?

Well, I was thinking magical experiment, but more along the lines of "we want super-soldiers who can transform into giant monsters on command", and so they try to 'hack' the innate magic of other species to give them the results they want and then tack that magic onto people who may not be compatible with it.

Thus getting you results with potential negative side effects. :)

A transformation spell requires magical mastery, this is an attempt to enable transformation without giving the person mastery of the skill/magic first.
 

LeilaniOtter

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There are a lot of non-magical shape-shifters out there. Chameleon Boy (Legion of Superheroes), Changeling/Beast Boy (Teen Titans), Mystique (X-Men), various Martians (DC Comics), Skrulls (Marvel comics) all have biological/pseudoscientific mechanisms for their transformations. The movie Dog Soldiers used genetic engineering to create werewolves.
Well, yes, but I was thinking more of non-magical ways that weren't superheroes or fictitious legends. *^^* I guess an argument could be made for them, since transformations are all completely fictional. About the closest thing we have to TF in the real world is the amazing way caterpillars become butterflies. *^^*
Well, I was thinking magical experiment, but more along the lines of "we want super-soldiers who can transform into giant monsters on command", and so they try to 'hack' the innate magic of other species to give them the results they want and then tack that magic onto people who may not be compatible with it.

Thus getting you results with potential negative side effects. :)

A transformation spell requires magical mastery, this is an attempt to enable transformation without giving the person mastery of the skill/magic first.
Now that you say that, honestly, maybe I can make the case and say there is no real way TF can occur without magic in a story. I mean, yes, you could create dog soldiers but your reader is going to ask, "Hey, how'd you do that?!" lol And then you're like, "Uhhhh..." *^^*
 

Valmond

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Brilliant. A video game that simulates the psychological as well as the physical. Well, this is where video games are headed, that's for sure. ?

That was it, I think. We used to go to the arcade in the late 80s and early 90s and see people crowded around that one console. You're right, amazing graphics for the times. Could still put some of the leading Mortal Kombat games to shame!
This was back on the PS2. So before 2008.

After that point, at least in the AAA space. They really toned it back.

Some games still hold up amazingly well today with their graphics and style, such as FFX, Dark Cloud 2, etc.
 

LeilaniOtter

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This was back on the PS2. So before 2008.

After that point, at least in the AAA space. They really toned it back.

Some games still hold up amazingly well today with their graphics and style, such as FFX, Dark Cloud 2, etc.
I think there are too many movies on games these days. If I want to watch a movie, I'll watch TV or go to a theater. But don't make us sit for 5-10 minutes waiting for exposition and story. *^^* We just want to play!
 

Valmond

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I think there are too many movies on games these days. If I want to watch a movie, I'll watch TV or go to a theater. But don't make us sit for 5-10 minutes waiting for exposition and story. *^^* We just want to play!
True, they aren't even doing it properly as well.

JRPG's are the story genre. They were the genre to actually introduce story telling into it, while having gameplay. So, essentially the genre cannot be engaged with without expecting this. However, other genres do not have this. Yet, a lot of games are doing that. It is like, if you want a lot of story, you play JRPG style games.

If you just want to play for more gameplay, you play other genres.

The major problem though is that the gameplay have taken quite a hit on both ends. I have said this before, but look back to Valkyrie Profile 2 Silmeria.

This is a perfect example on how to mix cinematics with gameplay. The Soul Crush system is linked into the gameplay. The game is essentially, a combo fighter semi-turn based. It uses a very complex system, with most battles being like a mini dungeon. You have to also set up the field with Dais to give yourself an advantage, since stats means pretty much nothing in that game.

Anyway, when you initiate the Soul Crush. Each character has their own, and a cinematic scene plays out. Fast, but slow enough to admire. And it keeps that intensity throughout the whole game, just building it up more and more.

It appears now, that they are not understanding the proper separation and how to effectively link it in. Even the mechanics have become so barebones. Slow, surface level, etc. They focus so much on the movie part, which isn't even anything good, just mid.

Take FFX, they linked in the cinematics into the battle itself without dragging out the time. They actually used it for both purposes.

I just don't understand what they are doing anymore. Some research says they are risk averse. Which is true, but also kind of misleading.

The broad appeal that just ends up creating a mid game is kind of right, but not the full picture. Take into account that they have a large hierarchy, and nothing much can get done unless they go through that long line. Along the way, the people working on the game are still getting paid, so increased cost due to mismanagement.

So, they end up with a bloated budget, and become risk averse as a reason. They try to make games, for people who really don't play games, and we get the current mess we are in.

Their mismanagement leads to costs so high, that they need more and more unreasonable numbers just to break even.

And what do we get as a result? The most water down game. I remember the time when quality was just nonstop. However, as they grew larger, they started to get trapped in by the hierarchy system, and ended up shooting themselves in the foot.

Which, without proper consumer pushback, they will keep doing it.
 

LeilaniOtter

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True, they aren't even doing it properly as well.

JRPG's are the story genre. They were the genre to actually introduce story telling into it, while having gameplay. So, essentially the genre cannot be engaged with without expecting this. However, other genres do not have this. Yet, a lot of games are doing that. It is like, if you want a lot of story, you play JRPG style games.

If you just want to play for more gameplay, you play other genres.

The major problem though is that the gameplay have taken quite a hit on both ends. I have said this before, but look back to Valkyrie Profile 2 Silmeria.

This is a perfect example on how to mix cinematics with gameplay. The Soul Crush system is linked into the gameplay. The game is essentially, a combo fighter semi-turn based. It uses a very complex system, with most battles being like a mini dungeon. You have to also set up the field with Dais to give yourself an advantage, since stats means pretty much nothing in that game.

Anyway, when you initiate the Soul Crush. Each character has their own, and a cinematic scene plays out. Fast, but slow enough to admire. And it keeps that intensity throughout the whole game, just building it up more and more.

It appears now, that they are not understanding the proper separation and how to effectively link it in. Even the mechanics have become so barebones. Slow, surface level, etc. They focus so much on the movie part, which isn't even anything good, just mid.

Take FFX, they linked in the cinematics into the battle itself without dragging out the time. They actually used it for both purposes.

I just don't understand what they are doing anymore. Some research says they are risk averse. Which is true, but also kind of misleading.

The broad appeal that just ends up creating a mid game is kind of right, but not the full picture. Take into account that they have a large hierarchy, and nothing much can get done unless they go through that long line. Along the way, the people working on the game are still getting paid, so increased cost due to mismanagement.

So, they end up with an bloated budget, and become risk averse as a reason. They try to make games, for people who really don't play games, and we get the current mess we are in.

Their mismanagement leads to costs so high, that they need more and more unreasonable numbers just to break even.

And what do we get as a result? The most water down game. I remember the time when quality was just nonstop. However, as they grew larger, they started to get trapped in by the hierarchy system, and ended up shooting themselves in the foot.

Which, without proper consumer pushback, they will keep doing it.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say you should be writing for WIRED magazine right now. *^^*
 

LeilaniOtter

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Animorphs did transfornation sequences very well.
Yes...um, how did they change? They had to touch something and it did something different to their DNA or something like that? *^^* I forget, that was a while ago. lol
 

zephyrtrillian

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Yes...um, how did they change? They had to touch something and it did something different to their DNA or something like that? *^^* I forget, that was a while ago. lol
I was gonna post something short like "it's alien tech" (and I don't remember it hurting, per say, but they could feel their sizes and bone structure change), but here's a write-up: https://animorphs.fandom.com/wiki/Morphing
 

LeilaniOtter

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You know, mentioning transformation stories…
How can we forget the creations of Expentio and Saril1489 here on Scribble Hub?
Reminds me, I need to get back to reading "Skinwalkers". I just started it and it's so good. ?
I was gonna post something short like "it's alien tech" (and I don't remember it hurting, per say, but they could feel their sizes and bone structure change), but here's a write-up: https://animorphs.fandom.com/wiki/Morphing
Somehow, this just seems like alien magic to me, since the skill was given to them, and it's referred to as a curse. It would be really interesting to know what "magic" aliens truly have - or if they believe in it. Or what might be magic to us is really just ultra-high tech to them. But then again, aliens would definitely have the ability to morph painlessly and without much effort since the "human rules" would no longer apply. So, yes, maybe this could be. *^^*
 

CharlesEBrown

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Reminds me, I need to get back to reading "Skinwalkers". I just started it and it's so good. ?

Somehow, this just seems like alien magic to me, since the skill was given to them, and it's referred to as a curse. It would be really interesting to know what "magic" aliens truly have - or if they believe in it. Or what might be magic to us is really just ultra-high tech to them. But then again, aliens would definitely have the ability to morph painlessly and without much effort since the "human rules" would no longer apply. So, yes, maybe this could be. *^^*
Clarke's law - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And Gehm's corollary to Clarke's law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
 

LeilaniOtter

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On the heels of this discussion, I have quite a few "transformation" short stories I'm pretty sure would make a fun little anthology. I know short story collections really don't get a lot of love here, but I'm eager to present to you some of the most warped and sensitive transformation stories you've probably ever come across, and see what you all think. So, I'll arrange a book cover with an artist and present soon. ?
 

CharlesEBrown

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On the heels of this discussion, I have quite a few "transformation" short stories I'm pretty sure would make a fun little anthology. I know short story collections really don't get a lot of love here, but I'm eager to present to you some of the most warped and sensitive transformation stories you've probably ever come across, and see what you all think. So, I'll arrange a book cover with an artist and present soon. ?
Vaguely remember reading something like that back in the seventies - a book that mostly dealt with transformations of some sort (though one of them was ... tangential at best; a person's brain was transformed into a blank slate by discovering the "Perfect Song" - it just took over his entire brain). The science fiction werewolf story stood out for being just that.
There was also a very silly vampire one (I think the scriptwriters for Love at First Bite read the same collection at some point, because they reversed the scene where the MC, who IIRC eventually winds up convincing the vampire to take blood from both of them and not turn either instead of taking his girlfriend and making her a vamp, pulls out a cross and the vampire laughs because he was Jewish in life) too, the only non-sci-fi story in the anthology IIRC.
Come to think if it, there was also a "ghost story" that looked a lot like an Eleventh Doctor story from Doctor Who, so suspect the anthology had fans (or just "captured the same idea particles")...
 

LeilaniOtter

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Vaguely remember reading something like that back in the seventies - a book that mostly dealt with transformations of some sort (though one of them was ... tangential at best; a person's brain was transformed into a blank slate by discovering the "Perfect Song" - it just took over his entire brain). The science fiction werewolf story stood out for being just that.
There was also a very silly vampire one (I think the scriptwriters for Love at First Bite read the same collection at some point, because they reversed the scene where the MC, who IIRC eventually winds up convincing the vampire to take blood from both of them and not turn either instead of taking his girlfriend and making her a vamp, pulls out a cross and the vampire laughs because he was Jewish in life) too, the only non-sci-fi story in the anthology IIRC.
Come to think if it, there was also a "ghost story" that looked a lot like an Eleventh Doctor story from Doctor Who, so suspect the anthology had fans (or just "captured the same idea particles")...
Well, I'll gather them up and see how things go - unless that title gets reported too and then I don't think I'll have a fair chance here at Scribble Hub and I should try somewhere else.
 
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