Multiple POV's

[SilvCrimBlac]

Any opinions? I've always enjoyed stories with multiple POV's. I've also always wanted to write a story that uses multiple POV's heavily. For example, (but not quite the same as what I would do), the Game of Thrones series. Now, keep in mind that I haven't read these books and only gave a cursory glance at the show itself though I read the wiki's quite a bit if that counts. I only know it had DOZENS of POV's and in the books, they switched quite frequently with their being more than 10 POV switches in nearly every book unless a specific story arc called for a smaller number of POV's.

See me, I would have around 6-8 established POV's and switch between them, but I would likely have 1 or 2 of these 6 to 8 that would have the longest runtime so to speak, kind of like GOT apparently had with Daenerys and Jon Snow or whatever his name was being the main 2 most used POV's despite their still being many other POVs, some of them almost as important as Daenerys and Jon Snow themselves. Apparently Arya Stark fits this specific description as being almost as important as the Main Two.

Anyway, my point is, anyone seen anything like this here, and is there an interest in it?

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Any opinions? I've always enjoyed stories with multiple POV's. I've also always wanted to write a story that uses multiple POV's heavily. For example, (but not quite the same as what I would do), the Game of Thrones series. Now, keep in mind that I haven't read these books and only gave a cursory glance at the show itself though I read the wiki's quite a bit if that counts. I only know it had DOZENS of POV's and in the books, they switched quite frequently with their being more than 10 POV switches in nearly every book unless a specific story arc called for a smaller number of POV's.

See me, I would have around 6-8 established POV's and switch between them, but I would likely have 1 or 2 of these 6 to 8 that would have the longest runtime so to speak, kind of like GOT apparently had with Daenerys and Jon Snow or whatever his name was being the main 2 most used POV's despite their still being many other POVs, some of them almost as important as Daenerys and Jon Snow themselves. Apparently Arya Stark fits this specific description as being almost as important as the Main Two.

Anyway, my point is, anyone seen anything like this here, and is there an interest in it?

I like to do multiple POVs but I dont do a hard POV shift.

Like I wont just end a chapter and the next one says, "X's POV"

I do it using third person. It's a bit confusing if you aren't used to it but I do mention names and offer context clues so its clearer.
I find this a much more fluid way of doing it

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

I like to do multiple POVs but I dont do a hard POV shift.

Like I wont just end a chapter and the next one says, "X's POV"

I do it using third person. It's a bit confusing if you aren't used to it but I do mention names and offer context clues so its clearer.
I find this a much more fluid way of doing it

I prefer the hard shift I suppose. I like each character POV to have their own independent arc that may or may not include other POV's or have a single arc with multiple POV's, each character having independent chapters or sections of chapter devoted to them alone.

 

[SuperHeiyan]

You can go multiple povs two ways, they can be either "suplementary" like first person interludes you can see in many books or "parallel" like Martin did. They can be sometimes mixed but they serve different purpose. And I sorry for advance if I use wrong terms here or there since English is only my third language.

Let's speak about "supplementary" first.
If you write only throught 1sr person then other povs are great to show things that your main lead(s) have no way to know. It's also good to show other people perspective on main characters actions. They are good and can fit into almost any book and you just need to keep 3 things in mind:
1) They absolutely shouldn't take more than a 25% of the story. If they take too much light from the protagonist then many reader will start to become tired of reading them. Less is better.
2) Character whose POV is used should have noticeble different, well, character. I talking about world views and thought process. Otherwise there is a little to no point to make other point of view. This rule is also in effect for "parralel" povs.
3) Think very carefull if you put them before protagonist reached related point in the story. It's better to show how they react than how they plan. Too many foreshadowing creates undue stress on the reader and big stress leads to annoyance with the story, especially of episodical nature, and can make reader drop the story. Now, this fine to do it sometimes, when the reader is already engaged, but make sure that you will deliver worty culmination because rolercoasters are fine but being let down is for masochists. Nkw tbis rule doesn't apply to the slapstick action comedy where enjoyement comes from how easily protagonist brokes throught antagonists plans.
Overall even novice writer will be fine with adding POVs so long as he follows this rules and they quickly become intuitive.

Now, let's talk about "parallel". This is much harder to do right. If you go Martin's part then I assume that setting and the conflicts between character are way more important for you than overall plot. Because it's the only situation where such approach is worth doing. In this case every character should have their own agenda and they expected to clash against each others. They can be allies with different (conflicting) goals but it's really shines when they aren't, when there are different ideas and agenda readers can get behind. The thing that makes such stories so hard to write is that you need to be very good with charactirization and empathy and basically let "the characters" to write their own story. And willigness to limit yourself with how much plot armor and pushing toward convenient direction you will be able to have. If you can play into chess with yourself and not cheat you probably can write such a story, because it's requires similar state of mind, but if no then you will have massive problems. Personally I know handfull authors who can manage to do it properly but they are minority. And most of the "best" authors really cant do it, having other strengths instead. And it's completely fine situation. I mean, Mark Twain wasn't good at it and he was one of the greatest authors.
So don't do it only because you thinks that it's cool, you only make yourself suffer and reduce overall quality of the story.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

I prefer the hard shift I suppose. I like each character POV to have their own independent arc that may or may not include other POV's or have a single arc with multiple POV's, each character having independent chapters or sections of chapter devoted to them alone.

Its definitely something worth doing if the cast is a bit smaller. Whenever I write in my way I notice sometimes I feel i have to give the reactions or thoughts of all the characters present. That's a problem when many of them are in the same scene, for example.

Sometimes they get overshadowed by other characters, too, ESPECIALLY when they're in the same scene.

So, I tried to limit how many characters are grouped together at a time.

I definitely remember loving the hard shift style when it came to books written by people like Rick Riordan who made the Lightning Thief and Kane Chronicles. Cuz they usually did it in first person, I think?

And I LOVE doing first person. You get so much more personality when using it. But on the other hand I also find it limiting.

Hence, why I use third person more often

Its basically which I value more, personality or freedom. Not all of my stories use third person, tho. I try to use whichever perspective I think fits tue story best, you know?

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

@CupcakeNinja @SuperHeiyan


I suppose Parallel would best describe my thing, each POV having their own agenda and arc's though they will intersect occasionally and clash. I also intend to kill two-thirds of the cast.


Perhaps not the best example, but do you guys know of the Overlord LN? The MC is well, Momonga, the Overlord himself, but perhaps 1/3 if not less of the story actually happens from his POV. To me, thats very similar to GOT so thats the kind of vibe I'm going for, though I will have less POV's then GOT...I suppose my idea would be closer to Overlord in that the cast would be diverse and large, but only what I would call middling in size, rather than with dozens of POV's and it would still be obvious who the main-main" MC's are

So, I tried to limit how many characters are grouped together at a time.

Also, yeah thats a good thing to remember as well.

 

[RepresentingCaution]

As long as you don't switch every other paragraph, it's fine.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

As long as you don't switch every other paragraph, it's fine.

It would be more like 2-3 chapters per POV rotation. I've seen this very frequently done. Even in my favorite series, Wheel of Time, there were 5-6 Major MC's, and then....many many many lesser POV's, though the lesser POV's would be spread out in different areas of the novel and usually interspersed between the rotations of the Major MC's pov while the 5-6 Major MC POV's would have about 2 at least to about 4 or 5 at most chapters for each dedicated at a time before it rotated to another of the Major MC's pov.

This would be my plan basically, though I'm not sure I would develop so many lesser MC's in the way Robert Jordan did. He had so many of them that I would sometimes have to get the older books and search through them to remember where I last read them.

Bleh, hope i made sense here. I know what I'm saying, but actually saying it is frustrating.

 

[Amok]

It's how I'm planning to continue my story tbh, don't have an idea for an MC but have created many characters that all have their own goals and conflicts, with it all coming to a head later on. I rarely organize such things, though, so one of them might end up being the main penguin, or two, or none.

Used to Edit a KR novel which made use of multiple POV's(first person MC as well as third-person MC and other C's), and it might be a way to break monotony if you want to write in first person, but also want to create a story unbounded by the physicality of a protagonist.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

It's how I'm planning to continue my story tbh, don't have an idea for an MC but have created many characters that all have their own goals and conflicts, with it all coming to a head later on. I rarely organize such things, though, so one of them might end up being the main penguin, or two, or none.

Used to Edit a KR novel which made use of multiple POV's(first person MC as well as third-person MC and other C's), and it might be a way to break monotony if you want to write in first person, but also want to create a story unbounded by the physicality of a protagonist.

Always enjoyed the mixture of 1st and 3rd POV's. Never understood people who complained about it. There was nothing about it that was jarring in any way that made sense to me.

 

[Arkus86]

I like multiple POVs myself, with the best example I have seen on SH being The Eagle’s Flight.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

@CupcakeNinja @SuperHeiyan


I suppose Parallel would best describe my thing, each POV having their own agenda and arc's though they will intersect occasionally and clash. I also intend to kill two-thirds of the cast.


Perhaps not the best example, but do you guys know of the Overlord LN? The MC is well, Momonga, the Overlord himself, but perhaps 1/3 if not less of the story actually happens from his POV. To me, thats very similar to GOT so thats the kind of vibe I'm going for, though I will have less POV's then GOT...I suppose my idea would be closer to Overlord in that the cast would be diverse and large, but only what I would call middling in size, rather than with dozens of POV's and it would still be obvious who the main-main" MC's are

Also, yeah thats a good thing to remember as well.

Ah that Overlord example makes me remember another series that did that. Have you ever read the high fantasy series, thebWheel of Time by Robert Jordan?

The story starts out with multiple POVs and with a lot from the main character, Rand al'Thor. But as the books go on, we get less and less from him and the story is told mainly from the perspectives of his friends, who each are interesting and become important in their own right.

Now, this seems like a wrong move...BUT....Its high fantasy. And let me tell you, everything feels so much more epic and mysterious when you hear about all the things Rand is doing from the perspective of other people.

The story created this amazing tale that way. Made Rand seem so big, powerful, enigmatic. Literally like some larger than life, legendary figure. I loved it

Anyway just mentioning it cuz of the example you gave. It's a HUGE series and each volume is very girthy, but I highly suggest you at least check it out if you havent read it.

Hell, the MC even gets someone of a harem going on with three great waifus.

That series is even getting a Television series adaptation that's coming out very soon, like the19th of this month over at Amazon Prime. So yep, good time to have remembered it

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

Ah that Overlord example makes me remember another series that did that. Have you ever read the high fantasy series, thebWheel of Time by Robert Jordan?

The story starts out with multiple POVs and with a lot from the main character, Rand al'Thor. But as the books go on, we get less and less from him and the story is told mainly from the perspectives of his friends, who each are interesting and become important in their own right.

Now, this seems like a wrong move...BUT....Its high fantasy. And let me tell you, everything feels so much more epic and mysterious when you hear about all the things Rand is doing from the perspective of other people.

The story created this legend tale that way. Made Rand seem so big, powerful, enigmatic. Literally like some larger than life, legendary figure. I loved it

Anyway just mentioning it cuz of the example you gave. It's a HUGE series and each volume is very girthy, but I highly suggest you at least check it out if you havent read it.

Hell, the MC even gets someone of a harem going on with three great waifus.

Have already mentioned this in a previous post on this thread and have used it as an example lol. I own all the books and have read the entire series 3 times and am working on a 4th complete read-through, being on #11 of 14 books in my 4th read-through.

Yep, def good example. I used it in my responses here to K5Rakitan

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Have already mentioned this in a previous post on this thread and have used it as an example lol. I own all the books and have read the entire series 3 times and am working on a 4th complete read-through, being on #11 of 14 books.

Lol that's what I get for skimming things. Did you hear it's getting a show? Coming on Amazon prime on the 19th of this month, least the first three episodes I think.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

Lol that's what I get for skimming things. Did you hear it's getting a show? Coming on Amazon prime on the 19th of this month, least the first three episodes I think.

Not excited about the show. Not happy with the casting, as well as several other mentionable things, but mostly the casting. I won't be watching it.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

Not excited about the show. Not happy with the casting, as well as several other mentionable things, but mostly the casting. I won't be watching it.

Meh neither am I. But anyway, I just thought it was neat it was getting one. If anything I think they should've gotten a movie instead. I mean Dune got a new one recently. Which I thought was great by the way.

 

[SilvCrimBlac]

Meh neither am I. But anyway, I just thought it was neat it was getting one. If anything I think they should've gotten a movie instead. I mean Dune got a new one recently. Which I thought was great by the way.

I didn't like Zendaya, but she was only in it very briefly so for the most part, I agree. Pretty good film. They picked a pretty good choice for the MC. I was skeptical at first because some of the other movies I've seen him in didn't give me much confidence in him...but man he really sold that Paul Atreides role pretty damn well. I was impressed.

 

[EliseValkyria]

In general, I prefer more the first person because in this way I feel that I am the protagonist and it is easier to process the information or think of solutions that would be viable in the situations that arise.

But I also know that multiple points of view help give much more background to the world and make other characters more human or at least understand why they do what they do.

In fact, although in my novel I write the vast majority in the first person from the point of view of the main character, there are also some chapters that I write from the point of view of other secondary characters or enemies. They are few but I try to condense good information in them that the lectures would not know if they only saw the point of the protagonist. But only a few times, I always keep the protagonist as the main anchor of the story because for something he is the protagonist.

 

[CupcakeNinja]

I didn't like Zendaya, but she was only in it very briefly so for the most part, I agree. Pretty good film. They picked a pretty good choice for the MC. I was skeptical at first because some of the other movies I've seen him in didn't give me much confidence in him...but man he really sold that Paul Atreides role pretty damn well. I was impressed.

I didn't like Zendaya, but she was only in it very briefly so for the most part, I agree. Pretty good film. They picked a pretty good choice for the MC. I was skeptical at first because some of the other movies I've seen him in didn't give me much confidence in him...but man he really sold that Paul Atreides role pretty damn well. I was impressed.

Yeah Zendaya seemed very YOUNG. With thic cheekiness that was annoying despite her very small appearances. I mean the moment she actually opened her mouth, I didnt like her. I dunno, she just had a very punchable face near the end.

But yeah, Timothee killed that role I think most everyone liked the movie, the only ones complaining only whined about either no action or how little info we got on the Emperor and the Houses, which I think was obviously saved for potential later films. Personally I'm glad we werent bogged down with too much info at a time.

Anyway, I digress. I dont wanna steal the thread.

 

[Fox-Trot-9]

For multiple POVs, I'd go for 3rd person. It's much more flexible and cleaner, I think, than if you'd do it with multiple 1st person POVs. That doesn't mean 1st person POVs can't be done well: look at The Woman in White or The Moonstone by Wilkie Collins or Dracula by Bram Stoker or The Door of the Unreal by Gerald Biss or The Beetle by Richard Marsh for great examples. These are ostensibly mystery/gothic stories that adopt an epistolary format for multiple 1st person POVs, you get my drift. But I'd go for multiple 3rd person POVs, b/c it's much less of a headache reading than multiple 1st person POVs, b/c multiple 1st person POVs tend to sound the same, unless you're really good at character voice.