Magic systems?

[D.S.Nate]

How do you develop your magic systems or other fantastical elements? Like do you have a rigid set of rules, or do you allow for more flexibility?



For me, I started with there being three main power systems. The power of demons, the power of humans, and the power of angels, all three are different, but all of them are connected to the power of the cycle which is simply the force that all things in existence are built and contain (See it as the purest and first form of power.) the cycle then connects to all planets and stars which in turn effect the power people have.

There are rules that each power system works off of but I'll stick with the most common one in my story which is an elementle system. I took inspiration from things like Pokemon, Naruto and Avatar before wrapping that in a nen like system (in the sense that you can kind of work a person's element by aspects of their personality like fire types tend to be passionate and firey (pun intended) and water types tend to be adaptable, can flow or crash and be overall soothing. Mind you it's not perfect to work out what type of person with to one's character but it's there.) This element system is a mix of one's power mixed with their connection to the planets. This connection is made by harnessing one's power through a tool or weapon (something made on the planet. See it as radio waves being captured by an antenna, the weapon or tool captures the power of the planet and, the person or radio picks it up through the weapon, and what element they have depends on the frequency or temperament of the person in question.)

There are only a limited number of elements, but combinations, what type of weapon one has, and how skilled one is, as well as the will of the person play a role in how that element can be used. So in a sense, there are rules in the power, but how they can connect, and combine and the will and skill of a person leaves me open to keep thinking about how to use them even to this day.

 

[LilRora]

When I do, I first set myself at least one core element to base the system on. This can be, for example, a magic system operating on runes that comes from gods (those are two core elements - medium and origin). In this way, I also set limits to the system, like that magic is inherently weaker than gods it comes from, and you need some higher concepts to battle them effectively. If I delve deeper into the system, make some important rules, such as that every spell is a divine rune with auxiliary runes arranged around it. From there, I usually add detail as I go, though I have experimented with many other methods.

From my experience, it is best to have a clear idea of the system, its limitations, and at least its base mechanics before writing anything about it. This prevents many problems further down the line, mainly various inconsistencies and balance issues. This is especially important if the system is rigid and/or heavily explored in the story.

 

[Rhaps]

What I did is ask myself "why should there be only one magic system?"

In my story alone, there are two actively operating magic systems, the World and the Universe. The Universe is basically physics, so there is nothing much to say. The World on the other hand, there is only one magic caster in the world, the Ego of Earth who cast magic through resquests in the form of speech or writing.

Aside from those two, there is the classic litrpg game system, the Equivalent Exchange Scale, the Scale of Equilibrium, Law of Corruption, Attendant Administration, etc

Since my story involves eldritch beings, just think that each one has a unique magic system of their own.

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

I come up with an ability I want the character to have, and then work backwards from there. What kind of power would give them that ability? What other abilities would that power give them? What abilities do I not want them to have, and why don't they have them?

In Juryokine, that went like this: I want Toke to be able to walk on walls and ceilings like they're the floor. How does he do this? He can manipulate his gravitational anchor. What else can he do with that? If he anchors himself to something heavier than him, he will "fall" toward it. He can also anchor himself to things that are lighter than him and make them fly towards him. What can't he do? He can only manipulate his own gravitational anchor, not other people's. So he can anchor himself to other people, but he can't anchor another person to the ceiling. Anything else? He can't fly. Why not? Because he needs a physical object to anchor himself to. He can "fall" across distances as long as his target is within range of his powers, but he can't just anchor himself into the sky and Superman himself into the horizon.

 

[MarekSusicky]

I always try to create super complicated magic systems, but it is all for naught.

All you need is the power of friendship.

 

[Rezcore]

I've been hoping a topic like this would appear, because it allows me to pontificate on Naruto's power system. In later parts of Naruto, and in Boruto, the use of handsigns goes down, and we usually only see dumb Shinobi, or new shinobi use them. This leads me to conclude that the Seals are Mnenomic devices. Thus if one were to then use a runic system, where words, in a floating pattern above your hand, as a mnemonic device it'd work. Thanks for coming to my DedTalks

 

[CharlesEBrown]

Organically - it evolves from a kernel.
With Strange Awakening and the Jack Diamond stories, magic comes in three forms (possibly four though...) - Mundane Magic - the magic that allows the basic laws of physics and biology to operate. Faerie Magic - which is illusion and nature magic. Outsider Magic - the special powers of beings from other dimensions or other worlds that do not fit into the other types.

With Between Worlds magic comes from two sources - deities or internal. Internal magic involves tapping one or more of the seven Fundamental Forces (Fire, Plant, Metal, Spirit, Air, Void, Water) and shaping/combining them with willpower. The magic of the deities comes "pre-mixed" - they grant specific abilities to their Chosen Ones that already merge Fundamental Forces for specific effects, some of them things that standard magic-users are unable or unlikely to do well. Edit: Also forgot about the Order and Chaos magic, the TRUE fundamental forces behind it all; the secret to becoming an Archmage is recognizing and tapping these two. Chaos is life, change and destruction. Order is ... well, order, discipline, balance.

 

[beast_regards]

I've read some of the famous Brandon Sanderson books, and I could say with confidence: magic systems are overrated.

He rants about magic systems as much as I rant about.... stuff

On the surface level, the powers are indeed commanded by the strangely specific set of rules, but as the story goes on, there are always so exceptions or expansions which bypass the restriction, create new rules, or straight away ignore them, to the point you would be better off with the softer magic systems where whatever goes.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

Flexibility. I mostly BS my way through magic systems

 

[Valmond]

Flexibility. I mostly BS my way through magic systems

In other words, they don’t want their witchy powers to have rules. Spoken like a true witch!

 

[D.S.Nate]

Flexibility. I mostly BS my way through magic systems

A WIZARD DID IT!

I've been hoping a topic like this would appear, because it allows me to pontificate on Naruto's power system. In later parts of Naruto, and in Boruto, the use of handsigns goes down, and we usually only see dumb Shinobi, or new shinobi use them. This leads me to conclude that the Seals are Mnenomic devices. Thus if one were to then use a runic system, where words, in a floating pattern above your hand, as a mnemonic device it'd work. Thanks for coming to my DedTalks

Any time to kick Naruto's kid when it's down is welcome in my books XD

I pop off about Boruto every once in a while on discord lool

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I think I'm one of the rare people here that didn't write fantasy yet. I have not written fantasy, sci-fi, or anything supernatural seriously. When I eventually get to it, I can't see myself doing anything rigid or thinking hard about it. I will probably borrow some stupid simple thing. Example. Mana is everywhere, every person can gather and store mana inside their body. To cast spels you have to chant and envision the spell, or you have to perform a special move, or something along these lines.

 

[Bartun]

This is mine. ?

 

[DorenWinslowe]

I feel rules are very important to magic systems. You need a clearly defined limit of what your magic can and cannot do, for one simple reason. So the audience understands the limits of your character(s). If the audience doesn't have an idea of a limit of what your character can do, there's no tension. There's no risk. Soft magic systems lead to weaker struggles, because if your character can just deus ex machina their way out of a situation, then why does their struggle matter?

Look at Spider-Man versus Doctor Strange. I know what Spider-Man can do. I know what tools are in his kit. I know what he can and cannot do. Then you have Dr. Strange, the character with the abilities of the Sorcerer Supreme. He has a few signature spells, and then can seemingly do whatever else the narrative demands.

A dam bursts. Well, Spider-Man can swing in and save people, and maybe try and web up an improvised barrier to desperately fight against the unstoppable tide. You can see him struggle in this very small but important moment. Who can he save, how long can he defend against the inevitable?

But Dr. Strange... well, he can just fly in and, who knows? Teleport people out? Sure. Hold back the water with a tornado spell? Why not? Erect magical barriers of increasingly ludicrous size to make a whole new dam? Open a portal so the water feeds into it and is neatly deposited back where it came from? Sure, that sounds plausible. The limits here are entirely on the writer's imagination. He has whatever tool that is needed in his kit. And while that's fun to play with, it's ultimately empty calories. It's unfulfilling. It's like Batman pulling out the Anti-Shark Repellant from his utility belt just as he's about to crest that really sick wave.

I guess it's on you as to what kind of story you want to tell. But I know I prefer the stories where there are actual stakes on the line.

 

[soupsabaw]

There's so much you can do with magic stories because the possibilities and combinations are endless.

For instance, my book has humans and these human-beast hybrids, and they don't typically get along. So much so that their cities are separate over a three-day trip of land. These beasts are categorized into different types. Personally, I've only created fire, water, wind, earth, cognitive, and lightning beasts, but if I wanted to, I could create more, I just don't have a need. Each beast surrounds an existing mythological creature, like harpies, hydras, phoenixes, griffons, taoties, mermaids, etc. They're mixed with humans, and they all have a different percentage of beast running through them. The larger the percentage, the clearer those beast-like features show on them. Each beast has an energy source around them that can grow the more they use any abilities they have with their beast side. For example, a yeti has the ability to freeze water. The stronger their energy, the colder and harder the ice will become and longer it will last.

This is just ONE universe I've created thinking of a magic and mythical element. There are so many more ideas out there. There are so many things not included in the universe just because there are so many to think of.

There are a few things that you need to consider when creating a magical setting:

How are these powers used? What can they benefit? Is there a backlash sometimes? What view does having a power have, like does the community all share a power or does one character have it and how does everyone feel about it?

For example, my yeti character, Pater, is extremely resistant to cold temperature. But only resistant. Stress on resistant. When he was younger and not in control of his energy, he channeled too much, so a side of his lower abdomen is numb from frost bite, and he cannot feel it. A backlash against his own body to show that while he is partly a beast, he is also partly a human.

But magic stories are fun! Especially if you consider the little quirks you can add. Since Pater is a yeti, his hair is pure white and has a wiry texture to it much like yeti fur. My phoenix, Malaya, has red eyes with a golden rim, somewhat resembling fire. Ifrits' skin is tinted a certain color depending on what kind of ifrit they are. Etc. There are so many fun things you can do. As long as you make things make sense, do whatever you wish. If you want to go with something complex, I would try to work out all the details, get into every hole you can to make sure you've touched enough bases.

 

[DireBadger]

I mostly prefer setting up a series of limitations for each magic system...
and then proceed to give the Protagonist ways to violate those limitations.
That seems to make readers happiest. You don't have to even make him or her particularly OP, readers just love folks that find exploits.

 

[Garolymar]

My magic system started out as just somethings I wanted the characters to do that I thought would be cool, and then the rules came afterwards. I have a few notes describing it, one of them reads "What if buying into your own bullshit makes things happen" and that was one of the earlier ones, and then I tried to expand on that thought with "Observer effect on crack?" my notes are kinda stupid.
Then I started asking questions about the abilities which filled in the blanks. That's where the 6 "schools" came from, with each type of ability being themed around the 5 senses and the perception of the self as a 6th "school" I'm still winging it a lot on some of these powers though, the rules are sort of there but I don't have everything down to a science. The MC's powers especially are a lot less concrete than one of the later character's powers that came when the rules were more fleshed out.

In the end though I'm not too worried about how strictly I follow my own rules, one of my favourite "magic systems" is Jojos bizarre adventure, and honestly the best parts for me were the people with really strange stands that followed their own rules individually rather than a concrete overall law.