Magic and Logic Why They Can't Coexist(?)

[Deleted member 84247]

According to standard models of gravity, 85% of the mass of the universe is missing. For all we know, the fabric of the universe could be glued together by the will of a big tiddy goddess. You better start praying if you don't want the solar system to be yeeted from the galaxy tomorrow

I was gonna answer how you're muddle abt both concepts but seeing the amount of answers I feel discouraged. FYI, logic is basically if all circles are red, and there's a circle here, then the color of this circle must also be red. What you probably mean to say is 'reason', but even that would also be wrong. Schizophrenics, for eg, which is a mental condition where people believe in things that are by convention false, have lost all their mental faculties except their reasoning. Without touch of reality, they tend to confabulate. On other note, if we find signs that magic exists in our world, then if you're a naturalist and not a staunch dogmatist in the belief of conventional science, then you'll just accept "it is what it is" and observe it.

Both of these allow me to believe in my Vampy Mommy Goddess.

 

[HungrySheep]

Magic is a science in worlds where magic exist. If it can be systematically studied, it is a science.

 

[owotrucked]

By the way, Kinzo's rant about magic and miracles:

 

[DeepWater]

Science isn't based on logic but on empiricism and the scientific method. Math is based on logic.

 

[Tyranomaster]

By the traditional definitions of "magic" then it's outside of science. But in modern terms, between rpgs and fantasy novels, there is a second definition which is just, 'phenomenon' that are fantastic and don't happen on earth. That can be logical.

 

[CharlesEBrown]

I believe that magic must function under certain logical rules, even if the rules of magic violate the rules of physics (or at least physics as we know them); there was a belief for many years (possibly still held by some scientists) that evolution would lead to psychic powers that would defy most known laws of physics - a lot of pulp science fiction (most notably The Lensmen and Skylark series bye E. E. "Doc" Smith) held this view, and it shaped things like Star Trek and The Twilight Zone, as well as some godlike beings in comics books (Doctor Manhattan), movies (Lucy) and other media.

 

[ThisAdamGuy]

The only logic that magic needs to follow is the logic of internal consistency. Brandon Sanderson is great at writing magic systems that follow strict rules, to the point where people in-universe actually study it as a form of science. Steel pushes, iron pulls. Push or pull on something lighter than you, and it will move. Push or pull on something heavier, and you will move. Trap a spren in a ruby, cut the ruby in half, and stick both parts into two different pens, and you essentially have email in a world that doesn't have computers or the internet. None of these are "logical" as there is no way to explain why or how they work in real-world terms, but they are logical in that they have a set-in-stone list of rules that both the characters and the reader's can understand, and they never deviate from those rules.

 

[Thraben]

I have yet to see a magic system that doesn't have logic within it, actually.

Yes, 'It does whatever the plot demands' is still logic, even if it objectively sucks in most instances where it is used.

 

[theInmara]

"Magic" is just a word. And a fairly modern word at that, and a European one specifically:

late 14c., magike, "art of influencing or predicting events and producing marvels using hidden natural forces," also "supernatural art," especially the art of controlling the actions of spiritual or superhuman beings; from Old French magique "magic; magical," from Late Latin magice "sorcery, magic," from Greek magike (presumably with tekhnē "art"), fem. of magikos "magical," from magos "one of the members of the learned and priestly class," from Old Persian magush, which is possibly from PIE root [URL='https://www.etymonline.com/word/*magh-']*magh-[/URL] "to be able, have power."

from etymonline

Don't get too fixated on any one definition of it, let alone what we just shared. Today, it's a word we apply to so many things that weren't called magic before. The working of power and spiritualism of other cultures, who have their own words for it.

You can't just declare "Magic is [this] and only [this]", whatever [this] is. You can't say, "It can only be illogical." You don't have the linguist authority to say that. No one dose.

Magic is literally whatever someone calls magic. Or, at the very least, whatever two or more people agree is magic, for the purposes of their conversation.

If anything, though, Magic does appear to be a synonym of the word "power", generally speaking.

Historically, it's been used to describe all sorts of things. And in linguistics, what you do is catalog the ways a word's been used and accept them as the definitions of the word. All of them. You cannot, in any practical way, ban the usage of the word in any meaningful way in any arena of usage.

If people are going to make magical systems that are logical and call it magic, then it's magic. Trying to change that is a lost cause. Give it up.

But, if you want to write your own story that showcases that way that you want to see magic, as inherently illogical. Please do that! That would be awesome!

 

[CheertheSecond]

The laws of physic is what defines how elements within the universe interact with each other.

Magic is the phenomenon that violates the laws of physic.

Magic works in its own set of logic and what is these so-called logic and how it is different and similar to the laws of physic?

Magic is similar in the sense that its logic is a result of causation.

A magical effect changes the physical state of the universe through its violation of the laws of physic. Considering the moving of an object without having any force in the universe interact with the object in way that would move it. This is a violation of the laws of physic because the totality of energy in the system was not preserved but this increase or decrease in energy of the system is caused by the reduction in magical currency.

Magical currency (mana in pop culture) is not scientific and not natural because its decrease is not proportional to the decrease or increase of the energy in the universe. Hence, the logic it operates is not the same. You can have something that is both logical in its way and illogical at the same time. It is our limited understand of philosophy that prevents us from comprehending things beyond duality (yes & no, logical & non logical,...)