Love and Toxicity

[TheMonotonePuppet]

At what point does love become toxic, particularly when a fantastical nature is thrown into the mix? Now, I don’t mean the loli stuff. People have done that discussion to death in other threads and will continue to do so.

But, one thing that @MintiLime brought up a long while ago, that I didn’t even consider, was how the romance between the main character and a demon could be toxic and she was unsure how she felt about it. See, this was a demon of greed (I think. It’s been a while), and so, her actions are all framed through the lens of avarice, leading to a possessive individual with severe attachment issues. Or at least, that’s how it would appear in a human, but she is functionally an alien in many respects.

For example, neither her nor the main character call each other by their true names or functionally true names, because voicing true names is incredibly taboo in demon culture while the main character has severe identity issues, and humans with severe identity issues put extreme stress on having their true name spoken. While the MC is willingly doing this, the psychological stress of using a nom de plume is not inconsequential.

Not only that, but the line between a mind operating by the Sin of Greed and being a traumatized bean blurs when one considers something I have yet to reveal to the readers like MintiLime. The demon girlfriend’s family was murdered down to the last.

TL;DR: for you, at what point does alien-ness stop leading to compromises and start leading to a recommendation that the relationship ends?

 

[RepresentingPride]

At what point does love become toxic, particularly when a fantastical nature is thrown into the mix? Now, I don’t mean the loli stuff. People have done that discussion to death in other threads and will continue to do so.

The fantastical nature changes nothing for me; a relationship becomes toxic when one starts to suffer from it.
The worst part is that it can happen even if the two love each other. They don't want to lose the other but know they can't be together, be it due to some problem or trauma. Due to their affection, they don't want to let the other go and make them suffer without wanting it.

 

[TheEldritchGod]

When it starts being toxic, it is no longer love.

As for alienness, you are talking about poor communication and a lack of social familiarity. If we have nothing in common, how can we have a relationship?

If I base love on putting someone before myself, and they embrace enlightened selfishness, on thr surface, it might seem to work, but without shared valued, it will only survive via self delusion on the part of one or more of those in the relationship.

 

[HelloHound]

while there's objectively toxic traits in a relationship (like...trying to murder your partner) the other toxic traits depend on whose looking on the couple
I lost the plot of my thought but you get the gist right?

 

[RepresentingCaution]

"Love is that condition in which the happiness of another person is essential to your own... Jealousy is a disease, love is a healthy condition. The immature mind often mistakes one for the other, or assumes that the greater the love, the greater the jealousy."

Robert A. Heinlein

If one character is doing things that make the other person unhappy and continues doing those things intentionally, then it's toxic. We all make mistakes, and there are sometimes parts of ourselves that we simply cannot control, so it's important to really evaluate the situation before screaming about it being toxic.

It's also toxic when one party decides they can no longer continue to put up with another person's flaws. Love must look past flaws.

 

[LilRora]

I don't think there's a hard line anywhere. It's going to depend on the pair in a relationship.

Now this might be a bit of a hot take, but I think compromises are the single thing that ruins most relationships that do not end abruptly for one reason or another. That's mostly because a compromise leaves both parties unsatisfied and serves as a wedge that separates them just a little now, but WILL be used sooner or later to widen the gap, consciously or not. What's necessary for a relationship is not compromises, but acceptance.

If the girl is extremely possessive, either because of pure psychological reasons such as trauma or because of some fantastical condition, compromise is impossible - arguably, there's even nothing to compromise on. There is a number of solutions to this that could allow the relationship to last, and probably all of them require either side to accept something that will inconvenience them.

Where the issue lies is that certain traits make acceptance extremely difficult if not impossible in many cases.

For example, extreme possessiveness will make it difficult to accept that the other side is talking with other women, and severe dependency will make it difficult to accept they are going to spend a long time separated. What also important to look at is the other side of the coin - for the other person, it'll be difficult to accept not to interact with other women or to sacrifice their own interests to spend more time together.

Now, depending how alien they are to each other and what each person can accept, not just put up with because putting up with something isn't healthy in the long term, there will be different breaking points past which a relationship cannot continue, because either or both sides are too uncomfortable or unhappy.

In general, it's going to be somewhere where one of the character needs to make very significant changes to their life and behavior to keep the other person happy. It might be too much for either of them or both.

while there's objectively toxic traits in a relationship (like...trying to murder your partner) the other toxic traits depend on whose looking on the couple
I lost the plot of my thought but you get the gist right?

Attention span of a puppy. Lore accurate.

 

[TheMonotonePuppet]

Interesting... very interesting. Not necessarily "no"s or "yes"s for Hellohound and K5Rakitan? And firm "no"s for Sleds and EldritchGod? I see, I see.

 

[HelloHound]

Attention span of a puppy. Lore accurate.

bark bark bark ??

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Interesting... very interesting. Not necessarily "no"s or "yes"s for Hellohound and K5Rakitan? And firm "no"s for Sleds and EldritchGod? I see, I see.

There is a reason why women constantly write about rape.

 

[TheMonotonePuppet]

There is a reason why women constantly write about rape.

?
Huh?
?

 

[RepresentingPride]

?
Huh?
?

Many woman fantasize about being raped. Not that they really want it to happen, but they fantasize about it or a one night stand with a perfect stranger they know nothing about.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

There is a reason why women constantly write about rape.

It isn't only women writing about SA; men are constantly writing about it, too. Some may fantasize about it, and those who write to deal with things we've dealt with. There is a difference between glorifying rape and telling a story of a survivor. SA isn't something that shouldn't be romanticized at all, but sadly is, but it's fiction so fuck it. Anything goes, and the author can do whatever they want with their story.

At what point does love become toxic, particularly when a fantastical nature is thrown into the mix?

Love becomes toxic when one party is hindered by the other. Love should be about empowering each other and taking out the best of that person. If you aren't your best self, then you really aren't in a healthy relationship. That said, not every relationship is the same, and what's good for you is good for others. Toxicity is dependent on the eye of the beholder.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

It isn't only women writing about SA; men are constantly writing about it, too. Some may fantasize about it, and those who write to deal with things we've dealt with. There is a difference between glorifying rape and telling a story of a survivor. SA isn't something that shouldn't be romanticized at all, but sadly is, but it's fiction so fuck it. Anything goes, and the author can do whatever they want with their story.

You take my joke reply way more seriously than it actually is.

 

[melchi]

while there's objectively toxic traits in a relationship (like...trying to murder your partner) the other toxic traits depend on whose looking on the couple
I lost the plot of my thought but you get the gist right?

In some relationships murdering your partner is part of coupling. Take spiders for example.

When salmon swim upstream to spawn they don't come back that is their last journey.

 

[KoyukiMegumi]

You take my joke reply way more seriously than it actually is.

There isn't any way for anyone to know if it's a joke. Sadly, emotions are usually lost in writing. Either way, I wanted to point it out to those the joke didn't land on. As you know, SA isn't a light subject, and my reply is very mild to what you can get from others.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

There isn't any way for anyone to know if it's a joke. Sadly, emotions are usually lost in writing. Either way, I wanted to point it out to those the joke didn't land on. As you know, SA isn't a light subject, and my reply is very mild to what you can get from others.

If someone gives me a "hot" reply, I will at most chuckle. This stereotype has been beaten to death, and if a person overreacts to this, I can't really say anything in return.

 

[Deleted member 84247]

I don't know, but in fiction, I like me some toxic relationships. It sucks in real life, but who doesn't want to be held captive by a yandere vampire mommy (IN FICTION!)

 

[Gray_Mann]

In some relationships murdering your partner is part of coupling. Take spiders for example.

When salmon swim upstream to spawn they don't come back that is their last journey.

Best reply here

but who doesn't want to be held captive by a yandere vampire mommy

Really making me consider some things here. Learning new things today.

 

[Dark_Phoenix_Zaetyk]

?Love and toxic in one thing is a recipe for disaster

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

At what point does love become toxic

It's very simple: a relationship becomes toxic when those involved don't respect each other. Respect is the fundamental component of a healthy relationship.

Of course, there are varying degrees of toxicity in this, but essentially, that's the indicator for me. Unfortunately, many relationships I've observed in real life tend to worsen in that direction or are toxic from the start. Sometimes they can improve, but it's difficult once trust is lost.

In fiction, these twisted relationships work very well because they generate conflict, which is the lifeblood of a good story, and I tend to prefer them. However, wholesome relationships also work because they can be a great payoff for the characters' struggles.