Isekai definition change.

[Fried_Chicken]

Currently the definition is vague, when the crux of what is expected form an isekai is for the story to be told from the lense of someone form our earth or one functionally identical.

Currently, shows such as Stargate and Star Trek would qualify as isekai when its not what anyone expects from an isekai.

Furthermore, lately the fanfiction isekai genre has been inundated with amnesia-isekai stories that don't offer what is expected from an isekai story. They take a cheap way and start with a blank slate that is nearly identical to the farm boy trope.

I suggest using the reincarnation tag for when a person is given another life without their sense of self contained within those lost memories.

Otherworldly knowledge can be useful for when some memories are retained but most lost.

Portal fantasy can used for when the Mc has the ability to world hop back and forth to earth like say in the Gate series.

This leaves the isekai tag solely for when the Mc is placed in another world with their sense of self intact.without the ability to return home af all, or return home easily.

Tldr: The isekai tag is almost useless Currently and rendered moot when paired with the amnesia trope. Let's make the category much more concise.
For those who disagree please comment why.

 

[Tsuru]

Then slang shouldn't be a genre. Genre are well defined and have limits. At best you are arguing for the removal of the isekai genre.

Definition :

Isekai (Japanese: 異世界 transl. 'different world', 'another world', or 'other world') is a genre of Asian stories. It includes novels, light novels, films, manga, anime, and video games that
revolve around a displaced person or people who are transported to and have to survive in another world such as a fantasy world, game world, or parallel universe with or without the possibility of returning to their original world.

It is a genre DESPITE a slang, bc MILLIONS use it.
And what you are doing is pissing me off, and pointlessly arguing about the definition that is anchored for years in culture of readers/writers/etc of internet.

What you doing is basically (analogy) :
"Plz stop using W IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE !"

I mute-block you. You are a mantis stopping a car. You are smart BUT You will be smarter when you will understand the views of people around you and not just YOU.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

Definition :


It is a genre DESPITE a slang, bc MILLIONS use it.
And what you are doing is pissing me off, and pointlessly arguing about the definition that is anchored for years in culture of readers/writers/etc of internet.

What you doing is basically (analogy) :
"Plz stop using W IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE !"

I mute-block you. You are a mantis stopping a car. You are smart BUT You will be smarter when you will understand the views of people around you and not just YOU.

Definition :


It is a genre DESPITE a slang, bc MILLIONS use it.
And what you are doing is pissing me off, and pointlessly arguing about the definition that is anchored for years in culture of readers/writers/etc of internet.

What you doing is basically (analogy) :
"Plz stop using W IT DOESNT MAKE SENSE !"

I mute-block you. You are a mantis stopping a car. You are smart BUT You will be smarter when you will understand the views of people around you and not just YOU.

You just proved me correct. First, that it doesn't have to be fantasy, and that a person must from one world to another. They can't be born there, which makes amnesia stories nearly impossible to be isekai stories. Because when they wake up without memories it's essentially the same as being born.

 

[Rhaps]

You just proved me correct. First, that it doesn't have to be fantasy, and that a person must from one world to another. They can't be born there, which makes amnesia stories nearly impossible to be isekai stories. Because when they wake up without memories it's essentially the same as being born.

Ah yes, another deranged analogy that make no sense to the common people. You can't just say you are born in the UK when you are born in Germany just because you have amnesia, there are records of your birth there, a proof nobody can deny.

And I said this before, amnesia is not always permanent, everything will come back. If anything, you are exaggerating what amnesia is.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

My man, why do you even have to write all of this. Everyone said to you a simple truth. It doesn't matter what definition is, people will still misuse it. If you think adding "amnesia doesn't count" will help, it won't. They will find a way to get around it with some bullshit. Yeah-yeah, you will be right, but technically they won't be wrong. You will try to change the definition again to close that loophole, they will find a new way in return. It's a battle you can't win.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Then slang shouldn't be a genre. Genre are well defined and have limits. At best you are arguing for the removal of the isekai genre.

Brah, by that logic 80% of music should be removed.

Isekai is simply said "someone is sent one-way from world A to world B WITHOUT conventional way to get back."

(So the trope of space marine crashing into ye olde England isn't actually Isekai. I'm looking at you, Star Ocean!)

 

[laccoff_mawning]

I think you're (almost fully) right when you claim that Isekai is "rendered moot" with the amnesia trope. I say almost, because there are almost always exceptions. For example, maybe an Isekai'ed person who slowly regains his memories as time passes. Suppose a novel pulled this concept off really well, then It could have a very "isekai feel" to it, and the amnesia would work in it's favor.

However, I don't know how changing the definition would do anything. If any author decides to make a story which is "isekai" for the first two chapters, then "generic fantasy litrpg" for the rest, thats a problem with the author's head, not the genre concept itself. I don't think changing the genre's definition would make these authors stop and think "hey, maybe I should spend more time thinking my idea through a bit before writing something".

Secondly, by changing the definition, you might technically exclude those rare cases where an author manages to pull off the amnesia/isekai combo well.

 

[greyblob]

You avoided my question. Please explain the difference from the readers perspective.

what? a character who has amnesia and a character who is faking amnesia are very different. do you want me to elaborate on this?

It's used to Create a blank slate while hopping on the bandwagon of isekai at the same time. They can tag it as isekai, but have an excuse to start with a blank slate. A blank slate that never existed in any prior world. Thus it shouldn't be considered isekai.

I get what you mean but what's stopping the author from having said character regain his memories. or some of his memories. or have someone he used to know in previous life also get isekai'd. lots of possibilities.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

what? a character who has amnesia and a character who is faking amnesia are very different. do you want me to elaborate on this?



I get what you mean but what's stopping the author from having said character regain his memories. or some of his memories. or have someone he used to know in previous life also get isekai'd. lots of possibilities.

I did that in my work. No one stopped me. Boohoo.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

Ah yes, another deranged analogy that make no sense to the common people. You can't just say you are born in the UK when you are born in Germany just because you have amnesia, there are records of your birth there, a proof nobody can deny.

And I said this before, amnesia is not always permanent, everything will come back. If anything, you are exaggerating what amnesia is.

Its still out of order. And the new personality in the meantime isn't "you"

what? a character who has amnesia and a character who is faking amnesia are very different. do you want me to elaborate on this?



I get what you mean but what's stopping the author from having said character regain his memories. or some of his memories. or have someone he used to know in previous life also get isekai'd. lots of possibilities.

First if a side character is enough to qualify as isekai you can simply add any isekai character for a single paragraph to earn the tag.

No, the Mc is the isekai protag. And you can't be an isekai protag if you are mentally deficient upon arrival.

And even of memories are gained, they still aren't the person from the first world. Just a person with their memories.

You, getting my memories doesn't make you, me.

Me losing all my memories only to get them back after a new personality has formed doesn't bring me back.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

 

[Fried_Chicken]

I think you're (almost fully) right when you claim that Isekai is "rendered moot" with the amnesia trope. I say almost, because there are almost always exceptions. For example, maybe an Isekai'ed person who slowly regains his memories as time passes. Suppose a novel pulled this concept off really well, then It could have a very "isekai feel" to it, and the amnesia would work in it's favor.

However, I don't know how changing the definition would do anything. If any author decides to make a story which is "isekai" for the first two chapters, then "generic fantasy litrpg" for the rest, thats a problem with the author's head, not the genre concept itself. I don't think changing the genre's definition would make these authors stop and think "hey, maybe I should spend more time thinking my idea through a bit before writing something".

Secondly, by changing the definition, you might technically exclude those rare cases where an author manages to pull off the amnesia/isekai combo well.

It's simple. Any story with both isekai and amnesia automatically has both tags removed and forced into the new reincarnation tag. If memories are to be regained overtime that are only after a new personality has formed they can add the Otherworldly knowledge tag.

This hits all points easily. And prevents both isekai and amnesia from being simultaneously tagged.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

It's simple. Any story with both isekai and amnesia automatically has both tags removed and forced into the new reincarnation tag. If memories are to be regained overtime they can add the Otherworldly knowledge tag.

This hits all points easily. And prevents both isekai and amnesia from being simultaneously tagged.

So uh, what do you call this story where the MC got literally transported into another universe (in his own body) with some of his memories from his previous world forgotten, only to be regained slowly in the course of the entire work?

Because that's the premise of mine.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

It's simple. Any story with both isekai and amnesia automatically has both tags removed and forced into the new reincarnation tag. If memories are to be regained overtime that are only after a new personality has formed they can add the Otherworldly knowledge tag.

This hits all points easily. And prevents both isekai and amnesia from being simultaneously tagged.

The differences between genres aren't always well defined. In this case, even if pre and post-isekai the protagonists are not the same individual, they share the same soul, which for thematic reasons has always been an important concept for these kinds of novels.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

So uh, what do you call this story where the MC got literally transported into another universe (in his own body) with some of his memories from his previous world forgotten, only to be regained slowly in the course of the entire work?

Not an isekai because the person upon arrival isn't the same exact person who was initially transported. This is easily proved by decisions made by the deficient being different than the whole.

That would be reincarnation+ Otherworldly knowledge, even if the new being has the original body, which i find irrelevant.

The differences between genres aren't always well defined. In this case, even if pre and post-isekai the protagonists are not the same individual, they share the same soul, which for thematic reasons has always been an important concept for these kinds of novels.

The soul doesn't offer the point of view which is required by isekai. The mind does.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Not an isekai because the person upon arrival isn't the same exact person who was initially transported. This is easily proved by decisions made by the deficient being different than the whole.

That would be reincarnation+ Otherworldly knowledge, even if the new being has the original body, which i find irrelevant.

 

[BearlyAlive]

Not an isekai because the person upon arrival isn't the same exact person who was initially transported. This is easily proved by decisions made by the deficient being different than the whole.

That would be reincarnation+ Otherworldly knowledge, even if the new being has the original body, which i find irrelevant.

So the fantasy trope of "lost heir to the kingdom" shouldn't exist because he wasn't the heir the moment he was introduced, since he was just someone that became king?

So your claim is that Isekai should have no character development? Damn, that's so many meta ways of putting the cart in front of the horse... You've outplayed yourself n-dimensionally multiplied by X...

 

[laccoff_mawning]

Me losing all my memories only to get them back after a new personality has formed doesn't bring me back.

This is very faulty logic. You imply that memories cause personality, so the loss of memories means you lose your personality. But then you don't argue the reverse that re-gaining your memories would re-gain your personality?

Also:

It's simple. Any story with both isekai and amnesia automatically has both tags removed and forced into the new reincarnation tag. If memories are to be regained overtime they can add the Otherworldly knowledge tag.

The "solution" you propose is not a solution; it's the problem I try and explain in my second point:

Secondly, by changing the definition, you might technically exclude those rare cases where an author manages to pull off the amnesia/isekai combo well.

Your solution involves taking a story that I believe should be considered Isekai, and not tagging it as Isekai.

If you believe that a personality is derived from memories, this suggestion does make logical sense, but that's not what I observe. Have you heard this one before: "The same boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg"? If this is true, two people who have lived their lives in the same circumstances can have different responses. But if that is true, it must be more than the memories that make up a person.

 

[Deleted member 76176]

Not an isekai because the person upon arrival isn't the same exact person who was initially transported. This is easily proved by decisions made by the deficient being different than the whole.

That would be reincarnation+ Otherworldly knowledge, even if the new being has the original body, which i find irrelevant.

The soul doesn't offer the point of view which is required by isekai. The mind does.

I am failing to see how point of view is in question here. A story in which the main characters themselves may not be isekaied could be counted as one, provided that it is one of its core elements. The phenomenon that one or more have indeed been transported to another realm by means that are either explainable or fantasy defines the genre, in my opinion. Not the philosophical discussion about continuity, whether amnesia breaks it or not, or if their natures have been altered due to any number of reasons.

The fact isekai is seen more as a trope than a genre is probably why I assume it is so confusing.

 

[justabot]

Looks like this thread has turned into a fighting match. Locked.