Isekai definition change.

[Fried_Chicken]

Currently the definition is vague, when the crux of what is expected form an isekai is for the story to be told from the lense of someone form our earth or one functionally identical.

Currently, shows such as Stargate and Star Trek would qualify as isekai when its not what anyone expects from an isekai.

Furthermore, lately the fanfiction isekai genre has been inundated with amnesia-isekai stories that don't offer what is expected from an isekai story. They take a cheap way and start with a blank slate that is nearly identical to the farm boy trope.

I suggest using the reincarnation tag for when a person is given another life without their sense of self contained within those lost memories.

Otherworldly knowledge can be useful for when some memories are retained but most lost.

Portal fantasy can used for when the Mc has the ability to world hop back and forth to earth like say in the Gate series.

This leaves the isekai tag solely for when the Mc is placed in another world with their sense of self intact.without the ability to return home af all, or return home easily.

Tldr: The isekai tag is almost useless Currently and rendered moot when paired with the amnesia trope. Let's make the category much more concise.
For those who disagree please comment why.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Currently the definition is vague, when the crux of what is expected form an isekai is for the story to be told from the lense of someone form our earth or one functionally identical.

Currently, shows such as Stargate and Star Trek would qualify as isekai when its not what anyone expects from an isekai.

Furthermore, lately the fanfiction isekai genre has been inundated with amnesia-isekai stories that don't offer what is expected from an isekai story. They take a cheap way and start with a blank slate that is nearly identical to the farm boy trope.

I suggest using the reincarnation tag for when a person is given another life without their sense of self contained within those lost memories.

Otherworldly knowledge can be useful for when some memories are retained but most lost.

Portal fantasy can used for when the Mc has the ability to world hop back and forth to earth like say in the Gate series.

This leaves the isekai tag solely for when the Mc is placed in another world with their sense of self intact.without the ability to return home af all, or return home easily.

Tldr: The isekai tag is almost useless Currently and rendered moot when paired with the amnesia trope. Let's make the category much more concise.
For those who disagree please comment why.

There is a difference between Isekai and Stargate/Star Trek.

Isekai is going to another world by any means, be it reincarnation, summoning, etc...

But what you seem to don't understand here, is the word "World", here it mean another reality, not another planet like in Stargate that are just far away from earth.

If the MC has amnesia but comes from another reality, it's still an Isekai, even if that trope ruins the the genre Isekai, it's not up to you to change what a word means.
What you expect from a story is different from what I expect. I expect from an Isekai a journey through another reality/world with new rules, new races, etc...
I don't see where the fact that the MC has amnesia will change the fact that I will read about a journey through another reality/world.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

There is a difference between Isekai and Stargate/Star Trek.

Isekai is going to another world by any means, be it reincarnation, summoning, etc...

But what you seem to don't understand here, is the word "World", here it mean another reality, not another planet like in Stargate that are just far away from earth.

If the MC has amnesia but comes from another reality, it's still an Isekai, even if that trope ruins the the genre Isekai, it's not up to you to change what a word means.
What you expect from a story is different from what I expect. I expect from an Isekai a journey through another reality/world with new rules, new races, etc...
I don't see where the fact that the MC has amnesia will change the fact that I will read about a journey through another reality/world.

You say that, and but change the definition of world to mean reality. That argument holds no water.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

The problem isn't really with the definition, but more with authors.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

You say that, and but change the definition of world to mean reality. That argument holds no water.

And also what you expect form isekai is literally the fantasy genre. It has nothing at all to do with isekai. What the other world holds could be mundane and its isekai.

The problem isn't really with the definition, but more with authors.

Yes, there are a ton of bandwagon authors abusing tags.

There is a difference between Isekai and Stargate/Star Trek.

Isekai is going to another world by any means, be it reincarnation, summoning, etc...

But what you seem to don't understand here, is the word "World", here it mean another reality, not another planet like in Stargate that are just far away from earth.

If the MC has amnesia but comes from another reality, it's still an Isekai, even if that trope ruins the the genre Isekai, it's not up to you to change what a word means.
What you expect from a story is different from what I expect. I expect from an Isekai a journey through another reality/world with new rules, new races, etc...
I don't see where the fact that the MC has amnesia will change the fact that I will read about a journey through another reality/world.

The key part of going to another world is having lived in a prior. It can't be "ANOTHER" if it's functionally the first.

 

[RepresentingPride]

You say that, and but change the definition of world to mean reality. That argument holds no water.

I didn't change the definition of world. Is just you take a planet as a world, wich are not directly wrong, but are not right too depending of the perception of it. Do you think a story about going to Mars will be an Isekai?
A world can be a planet, like earth with all inhabitants and all things upon it. Or, a world can be everything that exists, the universe, the macrocosm. any complex whole conceived as resembling the universe. Or it can be one of the three general groupings of physical nature, animal world, mineral world, vegetable world.
For the greeks, the world was the cosmos and everything, not just a single planet.
There different definition of "World", it's up to you to take the one you like. I'm not changing the definition of it at all.

And also what you expect form isekai is literally the fantasy genre. It has nothing at all to do with isekai. What the other world holds could be mundane and its isekai.

It's not because a world is mundane that there nothing to see in it, it also doesn't mean the rules that are set are the same as our, same for the everything else.

The key part of going to another world is having lived in a prior. It can't be "ANOTHER" if it's functionally the first.

It's not because MC has amnesia that it ruin it, the mc can have habit to do in its ancient world that still here. It will have a life prior to that, it's up to the author to put that to use and not just go with amnesia without caring at all. The MC can also get its memories back, I don't really see a problem with amnesia if it's written well, wich are not the case for almost every Isekai, not only the ones with amnesia trope.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

I didn't change the definition of world. Is just you take a planet as a world, wich are not directly wrong, but are not right too depending of the perception of it. Do you think a story about going to Mars will be an Isekai?
A world can be a planet, like earth with all inhabitants and all things upon it. Or, a world can be everything that exists, the universe, the macrocosm. any complex whole conceived as resembling the universe. Or it can be one of the three general groupings of physical nature, animal world, mineral world, vegetable world.
For the greeks, the world was the cosmos and everything, not just a single planet.
There different definition of "World", it's up to you to take the one you like. I'm not changing the definition of it at all.

It's not because a world is mundane that there nothing to see in it, it also doesn't mean the rules that are set are the same as our, same for the everything else.

Currently the definition is "another world" not another reality. Based an your own argument you agree with me that it needs to be changed.

Second that last paragraph makes no sense. Whatever you expect from isekai can be found in the fantasy genre. It can have crossover, but isekai isn't always fantasy. Nothing in the definition says as much.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Currently the definition is "another world" not another reality. Based an your own argument you agree with me that it needs to be changed.

Second that last paragraph makes no sense. Whatever you expect from isekai can be found in the fantasy genre. It can have crossover, but isekai isn't always fantasy. Nothing in the definition says as much.

And I said just before that the word "World" have different definition, and a "reality" is part of those definition.

Whatever I expect from Isekai can be found in the fantasy genre yes, cause different genre can have some same point. The fact is, in an Isekai, you see it through the eyes of someone who are not part of this world and discover it with him/her.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

I didn't change the definition of world. Is just you take a planet as a world, wich are not directly wrong, but are not right too depending of the perception of it. Do you think a story about going to Mars will be an Isekai?
A world can be a planet, like earth with all inhabitants and all things upon it. Or, a world can be everything that exists, the universe, the macrocosm. any complex whole conceived as resembling the universe. Or it can be one of the three general groupings of physical nature, animal world, mineral world, vegetable world.
For the greeks, the world was the cosmos and everything, not just a single planet.
There different definition of "World", it's up to you to take the one you like. I'm not changing the definition of it at all.

It's not because a world is mundane that there nothing to see in it, it also doesn't mean the rules that are set are the same as our, same for the everything else.

It's not because MC has amnesia that it ruin it, the mc can have habit to do in its ancient world that still here. It will have a life prior to that, it's up to the author to put that to use and not just go with amnesia without caring at all. The MC can also get its memories back, I don't really see a problem with amnesia if it's written well, wich are not the case for almost every Isekai, not only the ones with amnesia trope.

The English is failing and I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what you mean.

In my opinion if you lose memories you lose your sense of self, and are dead. Even if it's just part of your memories, you aren't the same exact person anymore. Something as simple as having the memory of your name lost can impact many of your decisions going forward which proves that you aren't the same person any longer.

If you weren't the same person after being isekaied, can you even claim to have been iskeaied at all? If you come out different on the other end is it to you?

I don't think so. A different person no matter how minor means nobody was isekaied. Even if memoires are eventually regained its only after another personality has formed. It doesn't bring the original back to life.

And I said just before that the word "World" have different definition, and a "reality" is part of those definition.

Whatever I expect from Isekai can be found in the fantasy genre yes, cause different genre can have some same point. The fact is, in an Isekai, you see it through the eyes of someone who are not part of this world and discover it with him/her.

No it doesn't. We have a word already, "reality" if that's what was meant it would have been that and not "world".

And I said just before that the word "World" have different definition, and a "reality" is part of those definition.

Whatever I expect from Isekai can be found in the fantasy genre yes, cause different genre can have some same point. The fact is, in an Isekai, you see it through the eyes of someone who are not part of this world and discover it with him/her.

The context of the first world is needed to be an isekai. Otherwise it's exactly the same as the farm boy start. What's th ediffrence between an isekai with amnesia vs in world oc who we see from a young age? Functionally nothing we learn the world the same either way. They key differing point that's missing is the lense of the prior world. Isekai means "another world" if memories of the first are forgotten not only is the person from the first world dead, the mc doesn't have the credentials of their "past world" for the current world to count as "another"

 

[RepresentingPride]

In my opinion if you lose memories you lose your sense of self, and are dead. Even if it's just part of your memories, you aren't the same exact person anymore. Something as simple as having the memory of your name lost can impact many of your decisions going forward which proves that you aren't the same person any longer.

If you weren't the same person after being isekaied, can you even claim to have been iskeaied at all? If you come out different on the other end is it to you?

I don't think so. A different person no matter how minor means nobody was isekaied. Even if memoires are eventually regained its only after another personality has formed. It doesn't bring the original back to life.

Memories play a big part in your personality, but that doesn't change everything about you. A person can have amnesia but still have body memories, be it through muscle memories or anything else, due to having a habit throughout their life. Sure, you won't be the exact same person.

But that didn't change anything at all. It's still a person coming from another "world" who gets isekai. That fact doesn't change, and it seems you don't like it, but that's what the author chose to write. Is it a good way to write isekai? Maybe not, but it's still considered Isekai.

No it doesn't. We have a word already, "reality" if that's what was meant it would have been that and not "world".

Yes, it does. The word "World" has different definitions. If, for you, a universe is not equal to a reality, I don't know what to say.


I will stop the discussion here because it seems you don't understand what I'm trying to say or just don't want to understand it. I'm not saying to accept it here, read it correctly, "understand it."

 

[Fried_Chicken]

Memories play a big part in your personality, but that doesn't change everything about you. A person can have amnesia but still have body memories, be it through muscle memories or anything else, due to having a habit throughout their life. Sure, you won't be the exact same person.

But that didn't change anything at all. It's still a person coming from another "world" who gets isekai. That fact doesn't change, and it seems you don't like it, but that's what the author chose to write. Is it a good way to write isekai? Maybe not, but it's still considered Isekai.


Yes, it does. The word "World" has different definitions. If, for you, a universe is not equal to a reality, I don't know what to say.


I will stop the discussion here because it seems you don't understand what I'm trying to say or just don't want to understand it. I'm not saying to accept it here, read it correctly, "understand it."

Run away when you lose I see. At the very least reply to my last reply.

Run away when you lose I see. At the very least reply to my last reply.

Amd as I said it has to be the "same person" on both ends of the isekai tunnel. The sense of self must be continuous throughout. Any change kills the original meaning they never existed in two separate worlds. It's just a damaged clone placed there. Not the person who was isekaied at all.

And I said just before that the word "World" have different definition, and a "reality" is part of those definition.

Whatever I expect from Isekai can be found in the fantasy genre yes, cause different genre can have some same point. The fact is, in an Isekai, you see it through the eyes of someone who are not part of this world and discover it with him/her.

You can't be not part of the world if you don't have memories of the first. Again you keep proving me correct.

 

[RepresentingPride]

Run away when you lose I see. At the very least reply to my last reply.

Did I lose?
From the vote only, you are the one to lose.
I just don't like to waste time trying to explain something to someone who doesn't even try to understand it. Again, I didn't say that you have to accept it.
And for your last reply, since you edited your comment, I haven't seen it before.
After reading it, I already answered that point.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

Did I lose?
From the vote only, you are the one to lose.
I just don't like to waste time trying to explain something to someone who doesn't even try to understand it. Again, I didn't say that you have to accept it.
And for your last reply, since you edited your comment, I haven't seen it before.
After reading it, I already answered that point.

From the language I can't tell you likely have bots or multiple accounts. The votes mean nothing especially online when Asian countries are concerned. There is a certain one with a distinct lack of morals.

 

[RepresentingPride]

From the language I can't tell you likely have bots or multiple accounts. The votes mean nothing especially online when Asian countries are concerned. There is a certain one with a distinct lack of morals.

Yes, sure. I use bots and multiple accounts to bully someone on a writing forum.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

Yes, sure. I use bots and multiple accounts to bully someone on a writing forum.

Sounds exactly like someone who thinks votes online matter in deciding an argument. The very first thing you said was I can't change meanings while changing the meaning of "world"

 

[RepresentingPride]

Sounds exactly like someone who thinks votes online matter in deciding an argument. The very first thing you said was I can't change meanings while changing the meaning of "world"

You still don't understand that the word "World" has a different definition?
I didn't change the meaning at all.
And no, I didn't think votes online mattered. But you think that I don't want to lose my time with you, equal to me running away and losing here, so I used an argument of the same level as yours with the vote you proposed here. The said vote lets you see that no one is on your side for the change of the definition of the Isekai tag here.

PS: The fact that you edit your comments or that they get merged every time is annoying when trying to have a conversation. Write it all directly before clicking "post reply", or wait for an answer before writing again.

 

[Anonjohn20]

The crux of what is expected form an isekai is for the story to be told from the lense of someone form our earth or one functionally identical.

This is not true, the crux of the genre is for someone from one world to be trapped in another. The MC doesn't have to be from Earth. For example, the MC can come from a sci-fi universe or from a medieval world with no magic to a medieval world with magic.

Portal fantasy can used for when the Mc has the ability to world hop back and forth to earth like say in the Gate series.

This would be a decent new tag to differentiate real Isekai from those pseudo Isekai.

 

[Fried_Chicken]

This is not true, the crux of the genre is for someone from one world to be trapped in another. The MC doesn't have to be from Earth. For example, the MC can come from a sci-fi universe or from a medieval world with no magic to a medieval world with magic.


This would be a decent new tag to differentiate real Isekai from those pseudo Isekai.

I don't really like the idea of expanding it that far, but I'll compromise as long as you agree that their sense of self should be complete. Being a different person on the other side of the isekai tunnel mentally, is essentially the same as a new person being born their with some memories from another person if they have any at all.

This is not true, the crux of the genre is for someone from one world to be trapped in another. The MC doesn't have to be from Earth. For example, the MC can come from a sci-fi universe or from a medieval world with no magic to a medieval world with magic.


This would be a decent new tag to differentiate real Isekai from those pseudo Isekai.

The reason I don't like expanding it that far it because it conflicts with the "reverse isekai genre" in reverse isekai they come to earth so by consequence isekai has the inherent meaning of earth being the first world.

 

[Anonjohn20]

I don't really like the idea of expanding it that far

I'm not expanding anything, I just gave you the real meaning of Isekai as a genre. By your definition, a story like "The Other World's Wizard Does Not Chant" would not be an Isekai when it actually is.

it conflicts with the "reverse isekai genre" in reverse isekai they come to earth so by consequence isekai has the inherent meaning of earth being the first world.

Again, you are trying to redefine already-established genres. Its not a reverse Isekai when someone from a different world ends up on Earth, Its a reverse Isekai when a person manages to travel back to the world they were originally from.

"Elf-San Wa Yaserarenai", "The devil is a part timer", and "Miss Kobayashi’s Dragon Maid" are not reverse Isekai; they're just Isekai. "Isekai Ojisan" is a reverse Isekai.

 

[Hans.Trondheim]

Isekai => another universe.
Star Trek/Stargate => another world/planet.

Spoiler

Now I don't want to argue about its exact definition, because I believe no one is really an authority when it comes to the exact meaning of this genre. If you think I'm wrong, yeah sure, I agree with you. Internet is democratic, anyway.