Isekai but not the Everyman.

[Arch9CivilReactor]

I’m not sure why but those novels that DON’T reincarnate ’generic nice guy 1#’ are just so much better in quality. Like specifically reincarnating a ‘Heavenly Demon’ into a Sword or Hero into a Prince. It’s so much more clearer.

You know exactly what a generic Hero, Heavenly Demon, Prince, Security Guard, etc will think like and their character affecting the after story. It might even be having someone from one magical world reincarnating to another magical world.

Douluo Dalu had a Qi Practitioner main character reincarnate into a Martial Spirit world, so one can tell that this isn’t unique… but I feel like we don’t get to see much focus on this. What most Isekai writers always think about is the latter half.

“Should they reincarnate into a sword, lumberjack, spirit, legendary beast?” Is what they ask themselves. Always forgetting that without the core of the one reincarnating, it isn’t really that fun. A fun protagonist is a fun story.

That just my take specifically. It’s just boring when people default to using an Everyman.

What do you guys think?

 

[Nolff]

I’m not sure why but those novels that DON’T reincarnate ’generic nice guy 1#’ are just so much better in quality. Like specifically reincarnating a ‘Heavenly Demon’ into a Sword or Hero into a Prince. It’s so much more clearer.

You know exactly what a generic Hero, Heavenly Demon, Prince, Security Guard, etc will think like and their character affecting the after story. It might even be having someone from one magical world reincarnating to another magical world.

Douluo Dalu had a Qi Practitioner main character reincarnate into a Martial Spirit world, so one can tell that this isn’t unique… but I feel like we don’t get to see much focus on this. What most Isekai writers always think about is the latter half.

“Should they reincarnate into a sword, lumberjack, spirit, legendary beast?” Is what they ask themselves. Always forgetting that without the core of the one reincarnating, it isn’t really that fun. A fun protagonist is a fun story.

That just my take specifically. It’s just boring when people default to using an Everyman.

What do you guys think?

I've seen many novels (Unknown ones) that do this. They take the nice guy to a medieval era (in one story) and some fantasy world (in another story). But, I'm more interested in a chill dude going on with life and has good grades in philosophy. You know, minding his own business, somehow being misunderstood one way or another, like how IRNDGL (I'm Not Really the Demon God's Lackey) did with Lin.

 

[Corty]

They should stop reincarnating altogether. They are already scraping the bottom of the barrel with reincarnating as inanimate objects, vending machines and used condoms stuck in a butthole of a swampnoodle.

It is not unique, it is desperate.

Just write a good story and stop trying to sell nothing but an idea of a "story" that isn't thought out further than "I will isekai my MC as a mousepad in a neet's basement because that wasn't done yet!"

 

[RepresentingWrath]

I don't understand. Can you paraphrase?

 

[NotaNuffian]

I also don't understand, but I am imposing my way of understanding and write whatever.

A generic good guy into isekai might sound bland and is bland, but it is a safe choice for writers especially if the isekai is not leaning on dark or grim or grimdark.

For example, Hifumi in a JP work I forgot the name of is a murderhobo who got sent to isekai that needs a hero/ cleaner. Made worse by the fact that he was roided up before he got sent and he immediately overpowered everyone in the isekai, raping them with his idea of "fun", which is everlasting murder.

You might look at the above work as interesting, but what I saw is an edgy twist to isekai with a caricature of an MC.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

I also don't understand, but I am imposing my way of understanding and write whatever.

A generic good guy into isekai might sound bland and is bland, but it is a safe choice for writers especially if the isekai is not leaning on dark or grim or grimdark.

For example, Hifumi in a JP work I forgot the name of is a murderhobo who got sent to isekai that needs a hero/ cleaner. Made worse by the fact that he was roided up before he got sent and he immediately overpowered everyone in the isekai, raping them with his idea of "fun", which is everlasting murder.

You might look at the above work as interesting, but what I saw is an edgy twist to isekai with a caricature of an MC.

I don’t really know how we got here, but I think what people find to be ‘fun’ is a completely different topic altogether. Just wanted to say that the essence of a character matters more than what they become. A bland shell that has no backstory because the author couldn’t think of one isn’t interesting (to me). But a solid and simple archetype being given a reason to progress the story in a unique way is fun (to me).

This is just my personal opinion and I’m not saying everyone should do Isekai/ should write this story specifically/ any kind of advice. Just sharing an opinion regarding a common trope.

I don't understand. Can you paraphrase?

Basically I’m just sharing an opinion on the usual Isekai format and simply stating that people should be more creative in WHAT is being reincarnated (this is a subjective opinion).

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Basically I’m just sharing an opinion on the usual Isekai format and simply stating that people should be more creative in WHAT is being reincarnated (this is a subjective opinion).

I don't think it's important when it comes to WNs. I find Hero, Heavenly Demon, Prince, Security Guard, etc, just as bland as the generic nice guy. In my opinion, thinking outside the box is the most important part. The main reason why generic nice guy doesn't work, and why all those heroes and demons don't work either, at least for me, is that they are always in the same world, with same side characters, and same plot progressions. They are all tropey, and don't have anything beside tropes. Even subversion of those tropes are generic as hell.

Throw a generic nice guy into something other than generic JP fantasy, and he will outshine all the princes and guards. A generic nice guy thrown into dieselpunk world? And this dieselpunk doesn't have bastardized morals and laws of our own world? No wolf or slime pet, no girls that fall in love for him just because he picks up trash, no slave girls that want to have his baby simply because he let them eat normal food. In other words, no usual tropes. Watching him change, his adventures in a NEW world would be thousand times more interesting than yet another generic yakuza isekai.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

I don't think it's important when it comes to WNs. I find Hero, Heavenly Demon, Prince, Security Guard, etc, just as bland as the generic nice guy. In my opinion, thinking outside the box is the most important part. The main reason why generic nice guy doesn't work, and why all those heroes and demons don't work either, at least for me, is that they are always in the same world, with same side characters, and same plot progressions. They are all tropey, and don't have anything beside tropes. Even subversion of those tropes are generic as hell.

Throw a generic nice guy into something other than generic JP fantasy, and he will outshine all the princes and guards. A generic nice guy thrown into dieselpunk world? And this dieselpunk doesn't have bastardized morals and laws of our own world? No wolf or slime pet, no girls that fall in love for him just because he picks up trash, no slave girls that want to have his baby simply because he let them eat normal food. In other words, no usual tropes. Watching him change, his adventures in a NEW world would be thousand times more interesting than yet another generic yakuza isekai.

Personally, the reason I don’t like the generic nice guy much is because him being ‘nice’ is usually never explored much.

When a Demon King reincarnates, you usually see them having to either adapt or change to suit their new circumstances. Their character traits become as important as the reincarnation aspect of the story. Solely driven by their actions.

Nice guys can also be tested in that their ‘nice’ behaviour must be given obstacles. The main character’s personality should matter in the overall narrative… but the lazy and self-insert vibe of every man’s these days are boring.

I love it when a ‘character’ reincarnated and is affected by it innately, rather than skipping their whole motivation to just go with what you’ve stated early on in your comment. You’re right. A change in gimmick doesn’t matter much, it is a change in the author perspective that matters.

 

[Toast2Venus]

The everyman is a safe troupe any attempts to make the main character some really extraordinary or unique person mostly falls flat, that's why Lord of the Mysteries works because it's easier to build up an everyman, grow and breathe life into it, drawing on a blank sheet is a proper way to start what better way than having a regular loser most folks can relate to and watch him dominate, most webnovel readers live through certain characters and that's why Warlorck of the Magus World (in my humble opinion) doesn't, we're supposed to have some sort of scientist as the MC but heavens and the Lord knows the true main character in that story is the Deus Ex A.I chip that someway or somehow fused with his soul.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

The everyman is a safe troupe any attempts to make the main character some really extraordinary or unique person mostly falls flat, that's why Lord of the Mysteries works because it's easier to build up an everyman, grow and breathe life into it, drawing on a blank sheet is a proper way to start what better way than having a regular loser most folks can relate to and watch him dominate, most webnovel readers live through certain characters and that's why Warlorck of the Magus World (in my humble opinion) doesn't, we're supposed to have some sort of scientist as the MC but heavens and the Lord knows the true main character in that story is the Deus Ex A.I chip that someway or somehow fused with his soul.

Yeah, I feel ‘The Everyman’ is both misunderstood and misused sometimes. Loved it when they grew the MC of lord of mysteries and even Re:Zero when thinking about it. You don’t even get told that Subaru is a ‘loser’. It’s just that he acts like one in the story beginning.

Blank slates are ironically interesting at times.

 

[RepresentingWrath]

Personally, the reason I don’t like the generic nice guy much is because him being ‘nice’ is usually never explored much.

I think it proves my point. Authors rarely think beside tropes. Is it on the generic nice guy himself, or the author who doesn't utilize his MC properly? Simple example, the generic nice guy is isekaied into cyberpunk, not the game but setting. It will give plenty of chances to test his morals and how nice he actually is.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

I think it proves my point. Authors rarely think beside tropes. Is it on the generic nice guy himself, or the author who doesn't utilize his MC properly? Simple example, the generic nice guy is isekaied into cyberpunk, not the game but setting. It will give plenty of chances to test his morals and how nice he actually is.

We are definitely on the same wavelength here. I think presentation is key. Nice guys are equal to any other character trope like Demon Kings, Heroes, Princes… but it needs to be utilised correctly. Just like the Everyman trope.

Its disregard writers have for their own main character in service of ‘fast plot progress’ is what can ruin any trope. When you aren’t telling a person’s story, but rather a documentary of events that happened to a particular individual.

It’s like connecting the character to the plot. If you want to build up a blank slate, then you need time to show their quirks. If you want to build upon an archetype, then you must challenge their status quo,

Doing none ruins the character.

 

[Toast2Venus]

Yeah, I feel ‘The Everyman’ is both misunderstood and misused sometimes. Loved it when they grew the MC of lord of mysteries and even Re:Zero when thinking about it. You don’t even get told that Subaru is a ‘loser’. It’s just that he acts like one in the story beginning.

Blank slates are ironically interesting at times.

Same reason why the villain troupe in most xianxia stories started picking up steam, the era of the Ling's, the Xiao's and the Ye's had to end but somehow Japan is still stuck in the past and Korea too every week there's like a new manhwa which the main character is a necromancer. Necromancy had to be the coolest form of magic system I grew up on the act of preserving corpses, harvesting them, the natural and Gore disadvantages that came with the power, but nothing has been the same since Solo Levelling, we've just had copy and pasta all over and over again.

 

[Arch9CivilReactor]

Same reason why the villain troupe in most xianxia stories started picking up steam, the era of the Ling's, the Xiao's and the Ye's had to end but somehow Japan is still stuck in the past and Korea too every week there's like a new manhwa which the main character is a necromancer. Necromancy had to be the coolest form of magic system I grew up on the act of preserving corpses, harvesting them, the natural and Gore disadvantages that came with the power, but nothing has been the same since Solo Levelling, we've just had copy and pasta all over and over again.

True dat, brother. It’s not even a necromancer anymore at that point.

 

[beast_regards]

On the contrary, there are very few truly average everyman characters.

The anime (manga and light novels), which is notorious for its audience surrogates, doesn't have any truly average character.

Most of their everymen are, in fact, not so average. The losers are often shown as hidden chosen ones, always special from the get go, and the isekai'd otaku character always, always have niche hobby which is tremendously relevant in their new life. Even without the hobby, they always have relevant knowledge of the new situation, and are rarely fumbling around because they couldn't handle the situation.

If they do fumble around, it is done for the comedic effect, and they always soon prove to be hidden chosen ones in the end.

The western portal fantasy at the moment is also very, very far from the average. I couldn't really find the western portal fantasy where the protagonist isn't both MIT graduate and marine special ops soldier in the same time. He does call himself average, in-universe, but he rarely is one, and that's before any power infusion from whole transmigration comes.

And stories around the sites like the Royal Road or Scribble Hub, or sites obsessed with competency like the Spacebattles?

All "smart protagonist" have the abilities which imply the combination of precognition, instant learning, and luck manipulation, and they have all these abilities BEFORE they even encounter any supernatural abilities the reincarnation gives them. It is, almost ridiculously, unawerage.

 

[corruption]

It is all about escapism.
The readers are often stuck in boring office lives, or some other such thing. That is why they relate to the MCs.
Part of the escapism fantasy is being powerful and able to make a difference, unlike in this world.
That is why they are boring people becoming overpowered and having to go on adventures.

Now they are getting desperate for new ideas.
I can't remember if I have seen a story where the MC doesn't want the adventures, but has to fight the evil forces just to stay alive because they think he will kill them if they don't kill him first

I can just imagine this scene: the MC faces down the Demon King, and DK tells him "So, you have come. Tell me hero, what drives a mortal to risk his life so desperately to save others?"
MC looks at him and says "Risking my life to save other? WTF are you talking about? I'm only fighting you because your bloody stupid followers keep trying to kill me! Maybe when you and your replacements are all nice and dead I can finally relax!"

 

[SoaringMoon]

Bad ass demon lord isekai's into a lumberhjack in another world.