Is writing a 'science' or 'art'

[minacia]

But that kind of trial and error, exploring the "rules of writing" (especially of genre writing), essentially IS science, even if not formal, methodical scientific study.

Hmm, I still think that's the way that humans have lived for hundreds of thousands of years.

Consider, for example, the the medieval farmer who goes to their local wiseman for advice on how to grow crops. The wiseman says that you shouldn't pour acid on crops (because that's stupid) and to bury a fish underneath the soil. The farmer goes home and tries this and he thinks it works, so he decides to continue doing this.

This isn't science. Iteration based on experience is human logic and human reasoning.

At least in my opinion, science was not really born until the scientific revolution, at which point people discovered and began to apply the scientific method. Before this point, it was just basic human logic akin to Aristotle.

 

[The_Lover]

Hmm, I still think that's the way that humans have lived for hundreds of thousands of years.

Consider, for example, the the medieval farmer who goes to their local wiseman for advice on how to grow crops. The wiseman says that you shouldn't pour acid on crops (because that's stupid) and to bury a fish underneath the soil. The farmer goes home and tries this and he thinks it works, so he decides to continue doing this.

This isn't science. Iteration based on experience is human logic and human reasoning.

At least in my opinion, science was not really born until the scientific revolution, at which point people discovered and began to apply the scientific method. Before this point, it was just basic human logic akin to Aristotle.

I can agree with that, sure one can argue experience is evidence for a 'fact' but that's not science. Maybe now there's science saying fish improves the nitrogen content of the soil, but it used to just be 'wisdom' or maybe something like cultural or accepted knowledge. Not sure what a good word for it is. Science needs a tested hypothesis with abundant evidence in favor.

 

[beast_regards]

Art is when you splash the bucket of paint on the wall in order to express your internal feeling.

Science is when you splash the bucket of paint on the wall to measure the patterns it created in an attempt to understand the process through repeated observation.

Public relations is when people scream at you for the walls you ruined by playing with the paint.

 

[Clo]

I think anyone's writing can be as artistic or as technical as they want it to be.

And it can be other things, too.

I also think writing to the market is closer to a science than art.

As for writing purely artistically, with no structure, science or point behind it? It's going to be hard for any reader to connect or to understand what you might trying to say. Are you even trying to say anything? Probably not, as it wouldn't be purely art anymore.

Some writers are certainly skirting closer to science than art.

 

[Daitengu]

Meh, you gotta know the science to get the most outta your art.

Music, painting, writing, it doesn't matter. There's rules and theory behind them all that are the used to properly express yourself. Does one follow the rules, or twist them for a different kind of experience?

Both science and art are iterative. Chemistry came from alchemy. Abstract art comes from breaking classical convention. In writing there's theory on maximum reader engagement based on Star Wars, which itself is a classic hero's journey that came be traced back to Plato.

 

[Deleted member 192215]

I will keep it simple: [All the above].

Spoiler: Bother if you want to read it

I have to agree with @Tempokai you need both. If you don't have theory to back it up, then what is your story logos? If you don't have a passion, then where is your ethos?

I read a lot of stories, even in magic (or qi) have theory to back it up.

When it comes to writing it down your idea into creating a scene. Passion is searching your writing style. You have describe it with your own writing!

Practice! Practice! Practice!

Write! Write! Write!

Do not stop, but it does not mean you cannot rest. Always take a break if needed, take time to think on how to improve, and don't repeat the same mistake.

That being said from an experience reader, not a writer.

My conclusion will be different from yours, so do not put salt on your wound.

 

[The_Lover]

Love the discussion from all of you, hell you're all right in your own ways. Even the most artistic and abstract of sculpture follows a few rules (depending on the material) you can't have a giant arm sticking away from the structure without the right material as it's base. Even an aluminum or light alloy structure with its light weight would eventually give under the pressure, nothing can fit the same mold or rules as everything else. I was just wondering your beliefs because I prefer a more freeform artistic style, I love realism in painting but I prefer abstract mixed with a bit of realistic painting centered if ya get me. I mean, if you have a realistic piece center and abstract views around it, doesn't that focus your eye on the realistic center and the abstract is more of an uplifting element?

 

[RepresentingDesire]

I don't really consider N=1 studies to be science. At least in our field, we call it a case report.

I consider science to be the collection of factual knowledge including methodic, so I guess its just my definition.

 

[Deleted member 266]

Neither.

 

[The_Lover]

Neither.

Lol simple and to the point, I like it. That's how I believe, but I thought it'd be a fun discussion.

 

[RepresentingDesire]

Lol simple and to the point, I like it. That's how I believe, but I thought it'd be a fun discussion.

If writing is neither art or science, what is it?

 

[The_Lover]

If writing is neither art or science, what is it?

It's like a spiritual experience in my mind, trying to think of how to say it. It's a love letter to the world? I'm really not sure how to put my thoughts into words. In my mind true art is a love letter to some aspect of the world. Do you love trees? You write a poem about trees, with rules or not. You love history? Your love letter may be a very factual piece of history. You love how a person is? You write about their virtues. You hate some piece of the world? You write a piece with all your hatred at injustice. It's a spiritual link to something greater is my belief. A Concept if you will, not a god but a Constant of reality.
And Im not saying true art can't be factual or scientific, there were many scientists that loved their work. I'm just saying that true art needs at least some passion for the work.
Didn't mean that to be an edit, might as well have been but I've just started on this forum a couple days ago
I'm actually glad someone 'clo' voted for science. I'm not a follower of her ideas but I love horticultural science and love reading it. It's all very clinical in nature. I love planting things, and how can you learn farming with romance? You CAN'T, farming needs an aspect of science and a bit of old "traditional knowledge" . I'm still not sure where to put traditional knowledge aside from in between science and art.

 

[RepresentingDesire]

It's like a spiritual experience in my mind, trying to think of how to say it. It's a love letter to the world? I'm really not sure how to put my thoughts into words. In my mind true art is a love letter to some aspect of the world. Do you love trees? You write a poem about trees, with rules or not. You love history? Your love letter may be a very factual piece of history. You love how a person is? You write about their virtues. You hate some piece of the world? You write a piece with all your hatred at injustice. It's a spiritual link to something greater is my belief. A Concept if you will, not a god but a Constant of reality.
And Im not saying true art can't be factual or scientific, there were many scientists that loved their work. I'm just saying that true art needs at least some passion for the work.
Didn't mean that to be an edit, might as well have been but I've just started on this forum a couple days ago
I'm actually glad someone 'clo' voted for science. I'm not a follower of her ideas but I love horticultural science and love reading it. It's all very clinical in nature. I love planting things, and how can you learn farming with romance? You CAN'T, farming needs an aspect of science and a bit of old "traditional knowledge" . I'm still not sure where to put traditional knowledge aside from in between science and art.

What in this definition can't make writing science or art? Or do you believe that anything can only be a thing? It seems like you don't think passion can be for knowledge or at least clinical knowledge? I would still argue that it is as well science and art, traditional knowledge by the science definition of accumulated knowledge would be part of science even if the methodic is questionable and by todays norm unscientific.

 

[lambenttyto]

Writing is a "craft" and storytelling is an "art." Or perhaps when you meld them together they become an art. Hard to say.

 

[ZombieHat]

It's both, like baking. It's a science down to the art of writing compistion, but art down to the prose and subject matter.

 

[DireBadger]

Writing is a CRAFT.

'Art' writing comes out just as disgustingly cloying as 'art' flicks, and 'sciency' writing never communicates anything scientific other than the writer's biases and power fantasies.

 

[Lysander_Works]

Both. It is an experiment (science) but also an expression of what we choose (art)

 

[The_Lover]

Writing is a CRAFT.

'Art' writing comes out just as disgustingly cloying as 'art' flicks, and 'sciency' writing never communicates anything scientific other than the writer's biases and power fantasies.

I get your meaning and actually love your word for it.

What in this definition can't make writing science or art? Or do you believe that anything can only be a thing? It seems like you don't think passion can be for knowledge or at least clinical knowledge? I would still argue that it is as well science and art, traditional knowledge by the science definition of accumulated knowledge would be part of science even if the methodic is questionable and by todays norm unscientific.

I even talked about horticulture, I really like how a couple others put it as a craft. I hadn't thought of that as a mixture of both until now.

 

[sbdrag]

I see your question, and I choose to raise:

Is visual "art" an art or a science?

Yeah, sure, it's in the "name" and everything - but what about all the technical aspects of making an appealing visual? Composition, lighting, perspective, anatomy, repetition, juxtaposition, contrast, etc? What about learning techniques for using a specific medium - oil paints, ink, acrylic, watercolor, charcoal, digital - and knowing what kind of paper to use, or how to hold your materials? What about being aware of art genres - I mean movements - like surrealism, pointillism, impressionism, realism, hyperrealism, etc?

You seem to be drawing this line of "you need technical knowledge to write well, so that makes it a science" - but you need technical knowledge to draw well, too. It doesn't have to be conscious "I learned this through applied academic study" knowledge, but it still needs to be learned in some way - most often by doing and observing others.

But efficiency in showing emotion in writing? Do you know people? They feel differently, sure there are generalities in the ways people feel, but are you really gonna say that all people like the same linguistics? There are a million dialects and billions of people. I wrote a story for one person with an artistic view, not scientific.

By this standard of "if this doesn't elicit an emotional response in every single person who sees it, it's not art", visual art also does not qualify as an "art". No matter the form, art is subjective - people don't like the same art styles, or the same art movements. They have visual art pieces that meet every box that they usually love that don't do anything for them emotionally, and pieces that don't meet any of their usual criteria for "good art" that make them feel on a deeply personal level.

The amount of people in my mind a piece needs to elicit an emotional response from to qualify as art is one, and that quota should almost always be filled by the person making the art. And part of the art is, in fact, trying to figure out how to express human emotions and abstract concepts in a way that connects to other humans.

You can learn all the technical aspects of creating visual art and make technically correct "masterpieces" with no soul that might get praise at first but have no staying power beyond their first appearance. You see this in writing too - books where the author was clearly more focused on writing a story that hits all the expected beats and tropes of the genre they're writing than actually having something to say for themself. They pop up, everyone talks about them for a few months, and then you never hear about them again.

Art is a way to express personal truth. Learning how to express that truth in a way that connects with other people is an artform of its own.

 

[DireBadger]

Attach files

I get your meaning and actually love your word for it.

Thank you. I have always felt strongly that good writers and good artists are craftsmen first. I get irritated by people who talk about how 'talented' a writer I am creating my 'art', like I haven't devoted hundreds of thousands of hours of my life to learning how to write effectively. It's just something I was 'naturally' good at, no effort required.

If those people devoted the same amount of work, they would probably be just as 'talented' as I am, if not more so.

It's like those people who say 'thank you for your service' when they find out I spent 15 years in. I didn't do it for them. Do you know whom they should be thanking? Firefighters, EMTs, bus drivers, police officers, sewer repair workers, hospital orderlies, park rangers, the guy that bags their groceries without smashing the eggs or the bread, and CNAs. Sure, I got shot, but I also got paid well for it. Those guys? Their jobs suck, and they rarely get paid enough for it. /end rant.