Is this considered NTR?

[CheertheSecond]

An academic discussion of fetish? I see that we have evolved much in the last few circulations.

 

[Sabruness]

So, I have this novel about regression stuff where the MC goes back in time to steal somebody else's wife back when the woman is yet to meet her future husband. Is this considered NTR?

no. not really. if they've never met at that point in time it's not NTR because it is functionally a different timeline and you cant NTR a relationship that doesnt exist.

Bonus question: Does NTR always have to be sexual?

arguably, not necessarily but it doesnt have any oomph if it's not sexual.

 

[Tempokai]

Yes.
And now other question. What if a protagonist travels back in time and accidentally seduces their own past self, thus becoming both the cuckolder and the cuckolded, does it count NTR?

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

This thread

Seriously, far be it from me to judge anyone, but I've always wondered why so many readers have this insane aversion to NTR.
If you can't stand it in fiction, what will you do if it happens to you in real life? Of course, no one (maybe there's a masochist or two) wants to empathize with a spineless character who gets cuckolded, but experiencing NTR can be a strong motivator that pushes the MC to improve or seek revenge.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

If you can't stand it in fiction, what will you do if it happens to you in real life? Of course, no one (maybe there's a masochist or two) wants to empathize with a spineless character who gets cuckolded, but experiencing NTR can be a strong motivator that pushes the MC to improve or seek revenge.

I find it weird that some of the most common portrayals of people (usually men, but that's an entire thread's worth of commentary on the western idea of masculinity and cultivated insecurity) that are cheated on in fiction are spineless, weak, or harboring some kind of moral or physical deficiency.

If you were a real strong chin thumps his chest pisses-in-the-bushes-alpha male your force of presence alone would keep her from cheating on you!

No, sometimes people cheat, and it can happen for a myriad of different reasons. Maybe the wife/girlfriend was left lonely after the husband was deployed, maybe she just fell out of love. Losing a partner to infidelity can be painful on an unbelievable level to some people, especially those without other support networks, and sometimes it happens at no fault of the injured party.

To deny empathy to anyone experiencing pain feels a bit childish and ignorant. When I fail to empathize with characters in that situation is when the fetishization is turned up so high that I can't view them as a person. NTR stories, unfortunately, do this a lot, in a myriad of off-putting, often strange and even annoyingly bigoted ways.

As for this set up in particular? I wouldn't say it's NTR for the original pair because they're unaware of what happened. Whether it's NTR to the protag or the reader depends on perspective, and I think I'd have to read the story to make a decision on that. The trope is really about evoking certain feelings.

 

[MatchaChocolate69]

I find it weird that some of the most common portrayals of people (usually men, but that's an entire thread's worth of commentary on the western idea of masculinity and cultivated insecurity) that are cheated on in fiction are spineless, weak, or harboring some kind of moral or physical deficiency.

If you were a real strong chin thumps his chest pisses-in-the-bushes-alpha male your force of presence alone would keep her from cheating on you!

No, sometimes people cheat, and it can happen for a myriad of different reasons. Maybe the wife/girlfriend was left lonely after the husband was deployed, maybe she just fell out of love. Losing a partner to infidelity can be painful on an unbelievable level to some people, especially those without other support networks, and sometimes it happens at no fault of the injured party.

To deny empathy to anyone experiencing pain feels a bit childish and ignorant. When I fail to empathize with characters in that situation is when the fetishization is turned up so high that I can't view them as a person. NTR stories, unfortunately, do this a lot, in a myriad of off-putting, often strange and even annoyingly bigoted ways.

As for this set up in particular? I wouldn't say it's NTR for the original pair because they're unaware of what happened. Whether it's NTR to the protag or the reader depends on perspective, and I think I'd have to read the story to make a decision on that. The trope is really about evoking certain feelings.

You misunderstood my words, and I think you're not saying things that are very different from mine. When I spoke of spineless characters in NTR contexts, I was specifically referring to those characters who are unable to overcome the trauma of betrayal. My observation was not a general label for all betrayed characters, but rather a reflection on their reaction and subsequent evolution following the event of betrayal.
I agree with you that people can be cheated for a myriad of reasons and that betrayal does not necessarily reflect a weakness or moral or physical deficiency on the part of the betrayed partner.
I meant that identifying with a character who has suffered NTR becomes difficult or less desirable only when this character shows no sign of growth or overcoming the experience. Indeed, it might be interesting and enriching to follow a character who faces, overcomes, and grows from such a difficult experience.

 

[Shrimp_eater]

Seriously, far be it from me to judge anyone, but I've always wondered why so many readers have this insane aversion to NTR.
If you can't stand it in fiction, what will you do if it happens to you in real life? Of course, no one (maybe there's a masochist or two) wants to empathize with a spineless character who gets cuckolded, but experiencing NTR can be a strong motivator that pushes the MC to improve or seek revenge.

The main problem is ntr isn't just the act of cheating, but rather the portrayal of infidelity in a fetishisized way.

A MC getting betrayed by a love interest, or potential love interest, presented in a more narrative driven manner not there just for shock value doesn't get as much aversion from readers. Shield Hero is a great example of that.

 

[prognastat]

The main problem is ntr isn't just the act of cheating, but rather the portrayal of infidelity in a fetishisized way.

A MC getting betrayed by a love interest, or potential love interest, presented in a more narrative driven manner not there just for shock value doesn't get as much aversion from readers. Shield Hero is a great example of that.

I think for shield hero it's a combination of:
-she was never really his so she didn't really get stolen she was just manipulative, she wasn't a heroine that loved MC that got stolen away
-sex isn't involved. Sure sex isn't a requirement for NTR, but it does make it more visceral
-as much if not more attention is spent on him getting revenge and her and the others receiving their karma

I don't think any of these individually would negate it as being seen as NTR by the readers, but each softens it a bit. People still don't like it, but the dislike is changed from disliking the entire show/book/series to just disliking the character that did it.

 

[Shrimp_eater]

I think for shield hero it's a combination of:
-she was never really his so she didn't really get stolen she was just manipulative, she wasn't a heroine that loved MC that got stolen away
-sex isn't involved. Sure sex isn't a requirement for NTR, but it does make it more visceral
-as much if not more attention is spent on him getting revenge and her and the others receiving their karma

I don't think any of these individually would negate it as being seen as NTR by the readers, but each softens it a bit. People still don't like it, but the dislike is changed from disliking the entire show/book/series to just disliking the character that did it.

Just a sign that it was a well thought out element of the story. Its a segment in the beginning that is just there to serve its function and doesn't overstay its welcome more than what's necessary.

The whole "getting stolen away by chad alpha male" that is the fetishisized part. If that is all thats gonna happen, what is even the point of spending long amounts of time developing the couple's relationship? Unless its something we can see coming thats an integral part of the plot, like a story involving a toxic or broken relationship, there would be no reason to such a development other than shock value.

On the other hand, If its meant to be an unfair scenario that'll become a motivator to kickstart the main character's own development, there really isn't much reason to develop that relationship further than what's needed. Why spend 50k-100k words on a relationship that'll completely turn void and become a minor element to some other plot. At that point the reader will just feel like the author wasted their time, or that the real story isn't what they were sold on and the author was just trying to be a smartass.

 

[Deeprotsorcerer]

You misunderstood my words, and I think you're not saying things that are very different from mine. When I spoke of spineless characters in NTR contexts, I was specifically referring to those characters who are unable to overcome the trauma of betrayal. My observation was not a general label for all betrayed characters, but rather a reflection on their reaction and subsequent evolution following the event of betrayal.
I agree with you that people can be cheated for a myriad of reasons and that betrayal does not necessarily reflect a weakness or moral or physical deficiency on the part of the betrayed partner.
I meant that identifying with a character who has suffered NTR becomes difficult or less desirable only when this character shows no sign of growth or overcoming the experience. Indeed, it might be interesting and enriching to follow a character who faces, overcomes, and grows from such a difficult experience.

I see. I may have inferred a different sentiment than you intended. I can see how swaths of readers can straight up have no interest in characters that remain utterly crushed by that kind of circumstance. I'm more tired of badly executed ultra-fetishization and weird ultra-political messaging that gets shoved into those kinds of stories.

 

[Tsuru]